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Evasive Maneuvers
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mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:38 pm    Post subject: Evasive Maneuvers Reply with quote

Just so I have this right:

If I declare EM at the end of Impulse 8, I don't have to pay till Energy allocation of the next turn. After, say 4 impulses, I decide to terminate EM. On the Speed change phase of Impulse 4 I declare being off EM. Now can I fire in the Defensive fire phase, and then the Offensive Fire phase of Impulse 4?

If, on the other hand, I declare EM in the Defensive fire phase of say, impulse 2 and then decide I don't want to use EM, then I must wait two impulses. Right?

thanks
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IKerensky
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Joined: 17 Jan 2011
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Location: blois - France

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope,

you paid EM cost at declaration, then you pay again at Energy Allocation of next turn to maintain it (advantage is that you benefit from it at Impulse 1).
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite right.

You normally pay for EM at the point of declaration, and you cannot drop it for 2 impulses.

However, if you declare EM on impulse 8 you MAY delay both activation and paying for it until the start of the next turn, you are in effect are allowed to declare EM even though you have no energy.

You may however still pay for and activate EM on impulse 8 - in particular if you want to avoid a tractor or boarding action then you may want to be EM now and not next turn.

The 2 impulses you have to stay in EM are interupted by the turn break, so if you declare on impulse 2 you have to be EM through 3 and 4 but can drop at the start of impulse 5. If you declare on impulse 7 then you will be EM through to the turn break at which point it will drop unless you pay to keep it, so you may not have been EM fo 2 impulses.


And yes if you drop EM at start of impulse 4 then you can Defensive fire etc in that impulse.
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mike_espo
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 72
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IKerensky wrote:
Nope,

you paid EM cost at declaration, then you pay again at Energy Allocation of next turn to maintain it (advantage is that you benefit from it at Impulse 1).


That does not sound right at all. Don't think you pay twice.


Last edited by mike_espo on Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to pay each turn in order to keep EM going, just like you do for speed, cloaking etc.
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually... You do pay for it twice, under certain situations.

Lee is correct. If declaring on Impulse 8 - you MAY (emphasis mine) choose to delay activation until Impulse 1 of the following turn.
In this case, you do not pay for EM until EA of the subsequent turn.

If however; you want the immediate benefits of EM during the latter half of the current Impulse, you must pay for it immediately.
The turn break does disrupt the EM sequence in this case (a sometimes handy fact) regardless of the specified 2 Impulse requirement. If you wish to discontinue EM, you simply do not pay for it and it ceases during EA.
If you wish it to continue through Impulse 1 - then must indeed pay for it again.

edit: Dang! Kang beat me to the answer Smile
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

{edit - crikey 2 other cross posts}

You would only pay twice if you actually choose not to delay EM (in order to avoid a tractor or boarding). If you choose to delay the EM then you also delay payment.

PS I dislike the rule, it breaks what to me is the most basic paradigm of the game - energy management, until they changed this rule there was no other action where you could do something on a 'buy now pay later scheme'. The rule allows you to hit someone on impulse 8 without spending any energy for EM and yet still be EM the following impulse before their weapons cycle around. At no other point during a turn can you do that. Indeed you can even get a significant benefit firing earlier in the turn using all your energy and then still being EM a the start of next turn.

This is quite a boon for the likes of Feds with expensive 2 turn arming weapons who can dump all power to firing weapons and then be EM next turn when their weapons are rearming, noticebaly mitigating one of their supposed disadvantages vs Disrupters.

Without this 'exception' they woud have to keep back EM power on the turn they fired, in order to pay for EM in that turn and then maintain it the following turn.
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mike_espo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the Reference Rulebook 6th ed, there is NO mention of paying on impulse 8 if I want use Evasive on the next turn. I pay during EA. (2D4a) Turn break Exception 2:
" You can declare EM on DFF of impulse 8 but delay its activation(and paying for it) to EA on the next turn".
But you blow up if you can't pay the energy cost.

Why would I pay on impulse 8? EM does not take effect until after the Defensive FF on next impulse anyway.....

Now impulse 7....yes.


Last edited by mike_espo on Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:
Looking at the Reference Rulebook, there is NO mention of paying on impulse 8 if I want use Evasive on the next turn. I pay during EA.

Why would I pay on impulse 8? It dont take effect till after the Defensive FF on next impulse anyway.....Don't see it. Now impulse 7....yes.

That is correct. If you want to use EM on the next turn... you wait until the next turn to pay.
But IF you want it to start during Impulse 8 of the current turn - you must pay during this turn.
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mike_espo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that example, you would have to declare it on impulse 7 then.....right?
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike_espo wrote:

" You can declare EM on DFF of impulse 8 but delay its activation(and paying for it) to EA on the next turn".


emphasis mine - you are not forced to use the exception. You can still declare EM as normal on impulse 8 and pay for it then. It means paying twice in quick successiomn, but sometimes it is needed.

Quote:

Why would I pay on impulse 8? EM does not take effect until after the Defensive FF on next impulse anyway.....


No.. it takes effect after the direct fire phase of the current impulse. If you declare normal (no delayed) EM during DFF of impulse 8 it takes effect after direct fire of impulse 8. So if you want to avoid a potential tractor or boarding attack in impulse 8 you can declare and pay for EM during DFF of 8 and be safe from such actions at the back end of the impulse.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if you wanted to be EM during the DF phase of Impulse 1 of the next turn, you can pay during Impulse 8 of the current turn and then again at the beginning of the next turn; that way there will be no break in the EM.
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IKerensky
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can declare EM during Power allocation ?

I dont think so.

The only way to benefit from EM during Impulse 1 is to declare (and pay?) during Impulse 8.
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Scoutdad
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Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(2D4) EVASIVE MANEUVERING
Turn Break Exception-1: If you used Evasive
Maneuvering (EM) until the end of one turn, you can
declare EM during Energy Allocation of the subsequent
turn. This takes effect immediately and is continuous
with the previous turn's EM and counts as the
one allowed activation of EM for that subsequent turn.
Turn Break Exception-2: You can declare EM
during the Defensive Fire Phase of Impulse #8 but
delay its activation (and paying for it) to the Energy
Allocation Phase of the next turn. However, if your
ship cannot generate the energy to pay for EM at that
time (it could not declare EM unless it had enough
power at the time of declaration), the ship is destroyed
by the destabilized warp field. If tractored before starting
EM, the energy is lost and EM is cancelled.
(2D4d) Termination:...Evasive Maneuvers do not continue into the next turn(unless power is spent in the Energy Allocation Phase
of that turn, which counts as an
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Last edited by Scoutdad on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:00 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See post above:
From the RBB version 6
The two Turn break exceptions previously described are listed, as is the method of continuing EM through the EA process.
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Last edited by Scoutdad on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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