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PRIME DIRECTIVE: TRAVELLER
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Finarvyn
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Starbase near Chicago

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, a little more than 30 years since Prime Directive Traveller isn't out yet. Laughing
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Marv (Finarvyn)
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Rick
Ensign


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean wrote:
Mongoose has stated that SF characters just don't sell, so there most likely won't be. Our cardboard Klingon crew did not sell well, so I highly doubt that we would invest in a project that would lose money. Sorry. Crying or Very sad I wish they had sold better as that was the first question I asked as well.


Hi Jean, has anyone from Mongoose or ADB given thought to designing some character mini's on a 3D design package, but allowing customers to buy the mini's through a 3D printing company? I'm not sure exactly how the process works, but I would imagine it would have several advantages over casting the mini's up and then trying to sell them?
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ericphillips
Commander


Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you guys could do it. Shapeways.com is the print on demand of 3d objects. It can print plastic, metals, etc.

If someone can make a few good designs in a 3d modeling program, this could make some sales with very little setup.

Here is a nice set of space marines I am thinking of getting. Though the pic is in color, it does need to be painted.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/148756/terran_powered_infantry_squad.html?gid=mg

It sells for $30 for the set of 5 figures in white strong flexible plastic, which works well for painting. A 25mm figure is usually 5-6 bucks.
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ericphillips
Commander


Joined: 16 Apr 2009
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, here is a good set from Victory Force. They are not really Star Fleet, but by painting it right, you can get the look. Check the site here:

http://www.victoryforce.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=VFM&Category_Code=spacefarers

They got the crew:


Generic Aliens:


Females (often overlooked in minis):


"Red shirts":


Even an Admiral yelling because he's been "connnnnnnnnned."


And more. Space marines. Deck crews in orange outfits. Individual figs.
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Rick
Ensign


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have quite a few of the Victory Force mini's, most of them I've converted to a non-SFU Trek look (let's just leave it as that, lol!), as the only Klingon, Romulan and other aliens I've found are in the same scale and era! I also have some slightly smaller figures that look very good as SFU miniatures, but the only aliens I've found that would go with them are Gorn! This seems to be the pattern for most mini companies that do these figures - a few bridge crew, possibly a random alien, but nothing more than that. What would be absolutely fantastic would be a set of 28mm mini's that were consistent across the whole range of SFU races/empires.
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boneguard
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May be a stupid question...I'm full of them:

With the arrival of PD Traveller (which is -I think- a good think since it opens up a third market of players) does it mean no more D20M/GURPS book or will the three system by written more or less simultaneously??

Because looking at what is expected to come for PD (the various races, deck plans and other expected GM sourcebooks) I would love to have them without having to buy a new sytem...although worse come to worse I do own the original Travellers rules.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that this is an additional game system, not a replacement game system. The idea is to support all three systems (and potentially more) as things go forward. So, once Traveller Prime Directive is out, the next book (Tholians? Orions? Something?) will be done to support all three versions.
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boneguard
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was pretty sure that it was what I read but I wanted to clarify to make sure.

This will be good, Mongoose Travellers is fairly close to the old (pre-GURPS) Traveller rules and it will get both an older and younger market, which will greatly help.
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ericphillips
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, I think Prime Directive, and it more realistic approach to sci fi, works best under GURPS or Traveller. D20/D20M is much more cinematic and combat oriented, while GURPS and Traveller tend to play with more realism and can easily run more cerebral adventures and keep them exciting.

Between GURPS and Traveller you have two different styles: GURPS is very detailed in just about all aspects, while Traveller is a bit more generic. An example is guns. In GURPS you have distinct versions of a gun, like several semi-automatic handguns, each modeled in loving detail. Traveller just has a generic gun to represent all automatic pistols.

The basic combat system of GURPS is on par with Traveller in complexity, but the advanced GURPS combat system has an amazing level of detail. What I like about both over d20/d20M is that death is realistic. A single shot from a gun can kill. This leads to game play where combat is not the first choice. In d20/d20M as hit points go up you become kind of like a superhero, being able to take a bunch of hits. Combat is usually the first choice for me in those games.

So, Traveller PD should be... awesome!
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boneguard
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree here. The d20 system is a good one, but it does indeed 'encourage' combat a bit more -especially at high level- since a "1 shot, 1 kill" scenario become less likely. Whereas in GURPS and Traveller it's always a real concern.

There is 1 D20/OGL system that I own that kind of mitigate this point by reducing the starting HP at level 1 (IIRC betweeen 3-6) and only increase by 1 or 2 every level. Since weapon are fairly powerful, even mid level character could get killed in one shot, discouraging combat as first option.

This is always an option that could be added -as a house rule- if it's not already part of the D20M system.

ericphillips wrote:
So, Traveller PD should be... awesome!


I second this.
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ericphillips
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boneguard wrote:
This is always an option that could be added -as a house rule- if it's not already part of the D20M system.


Traveller20 (the d20 version of Traveller) had a cool, OGL solution. You had hit points as usual, plus Life Points equal to your CON score. Normally, damage is taken off your HP, and whe that's gone, it comes off your LP until you goes down.

However, on a critical the damage bypasses HP and goes directly to LP. whoch could essentially kill even a high level character even in one shot.

In addition, anytime you take even 1 point of LP your movement was halved.

There were also a bunch pf rules for healing, which I don't remember.
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Rick
Ensign


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at some TOS deckplans last night - the Saladin, I think - and thinking that trying to shoehorn the deckplans of the SFB ships into a Traveller PD book (MGP did it with the B5 and High Guard books) would be a monumental task, and I think you'd lose a lot of detail.

Then I thought that maybe having full plans for the entire ship wouldn't be necessary, given that turbolifts can be accessed near to most major locations. All you'd need would be a cutaway, side view, of each ship, showing the deck layout and a key telling you what was on each deck.

You could then do a series of detailed plans of the major locations (bridge, sickbay, engineering, etc) that could be used for nearly all of the ships.
For example, if you had a large, medium and small example of each location, you could just indicate which ships had a medium bridge or a small sickbay.
I'm willing to bet that a large bridge on a CA and a large bridge on a DN don't look too dissimiliar.

Of course, this would be for the larger ships, smaller ones would have full deckplans, but you'd only be looking at 2-3 decks in most of those cases.
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domingojs23
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Geneva CH / Manila RP

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesss !!!!! Prayers have been answered !!!!! Very Happy
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domingojs23
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 150
Location: Geneva CH / Manila RP

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, am I in some kind of holodeck fantasy, or are we really finally getting SFU / PD Traveller ?!?

This is indeed a dream come true, and as many have pointed out, this is coming home full circle for us 40-something gamers, who did play both Traveller and SFB back in the day (the 1980s). Back then, my group would indulge in an RPG campaign whose setting was essentially a cross-over between the SFU and the OTU ! What fun we had with duelling Kzinti vs Aslan, psionic battles between Zhodani and Vulcans !!!

After getting back in somewhat into gaming the past few years, I tried setting up a play-by-forum PD using Gurps ("Cardinal of Klinzhai"), but never could find the time and needed motivation to see it through. With due respect to Gurps, D20 and D20m, Traveller is my first and enduring RPG system love, the SFU my most beloved setting. PD Traveller is like rediscovering and getting married to your high school sweetheart - after losing touch for three decades !

With that said, I'd like to ask Steve, Jean and the other fine folks at ADB, what would be a rough estimate for the release schedule for MGT versions of the other PD sourcebooks ?

I must also say that I am pleasantly surprised that ACTA will also get the SFU treatment. Which then also leads me to ask:

1. Is there, or will there be, ACTA treatment of MGT/ OTU -setting ships ?
2. Will there be some kind of interface between another eagerly awaited game - Starfleet Marines - and the PD line ? Same question for SFU Battlestations.

Steve, Jean and Mongoose, Maraming, Maraming Salamat Po !!!
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aramis
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericphillips wrote:
boneguard wrote:
This is always an option that could be added -as a house rule- if it's not already part of the D20M system.


Traveller20 (the d20 version of Traveller) had a cool, OGL solution. You had hit points as usual, plus Life Points equal to your CON score. Normally, damage is taken off your HP, and whe that's gone, it comes off your LP until you goes down.

However, on a critical the damage bypasses HP and goes directly to LP. whoch could essentially kill even a high level character even in one shot.

In addition, anytime you take even 1 point of LP your movement was halved.

There were also a bunch pf rules for healing, which I don't remember.


Wrong, Eric.

You have mixed in D20 Star Wars' mechanics.

T20 Damage was rolled. Full damage, unreduced by armor, was done to "Stamina" (Hit Points). Armor reduced (by dropping low dice, 1 per AV, til 1d left, then remaining die reduced pips equal to remaining AV) the amount of damage to Lifeblood. Crits do ignore armor, resulting in full rolled damage to both Stamina and Lifeb lood

See THB p.148 & 151.

EG: 3d10 weapon, 2 point flak vest. Roll is 3,6,9. 18 Stamina done, 9 lifeblood done. Same damage to a guy in no armor is 18 Stamina and 18 Lifeblood, for probable kill. Same damage roll to a guy in 5 point heavy armor, 18 stamina, 6 lifeblood (the 3 goes away with 1st AV point, the 6 with second, and the 9 is reduced to 6 by the 3 remaining AV points).

It made young kids in armor drop quick, but be basically unhurt, and old gunny could soak all kinds of fire when armored, but can still be killed outright when not. And Gunny might not notice, either... yer not dead 'til -10.


As for Mongoose Traveller...
average guns can't kill outright most normal people in MGT. If we assume normal to be stat range 5-9, that's 15 to 27 points damage required to kill. (Actual for post term 1 PC's tends to be a bit higher due to attrition and stat gains.) A Mongoose Autopistol does 3d6-3+margin of success, which means that the tough end (UPP 999xxx) requires an 18 rolled AND making the to-hit by 12 points to kill outright; Mr. Median (777xxx) requires an 18 roll and 6 margin to kill outright. In fact, all the mongoose slugthrowers in my copy of the PDF show 3d6-6, 3d6-3, or 3d6, save for the gauss pistol and the shotgun, at 4d6. Armor, on a 0-18 scale for personal armor, directly subtracts from the damage done. See MGT CRB pp 65-66, 87, and 99.

(My name happens to appear in the credits of both T20 and MGT... and I'm double checking my facts to prevent deprecated playtest elements from rearing their ugly heads.)

So, depending on Mike's approach to MGT damage stats for TRazzD weapons, it could be pretty non-lethal but very KO-prone, as MGT itself is.
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