Federation Commander

The_Rock · Lieutenant Commander Joined: 16 Jul 2008 Posts: 240

It mainly comes down to photons. It really doesn't matter for anything else. But the speed 0 going to speed 24 is what makes the most powerful heavy weapon in Fed Com that much worse.

Feds are not the most powerful empire in Fed Com, but they are the best of the non-"broken" empires.

Taking away the positron flywheel from everyone would help with game balance.

It is very odd to me that Steve posted this on the Discuss BBS:

"By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, April 23, 2010 - 11:14 am: Edit
Rules I regret publishing: Positron flywheel, scrambler, megafighter, Vudar, XP refits."

and yet is adamant that Fed Com works best when everyone has the positron flywheel (well, actually, something better than the flywheel).

Fixing this problem would be easy, as people have noted above. The one step rule (but considering "0" and "stopped" as the same step) would fix this mistake in Fed Com.

Kang · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:47 am Post subject:

But it ain't broke. Therefore we don't need to fix it!
_________________

storeylf · Fleet Captain Joined: 24 Jul 2008 Posts: 1897

storeylf · Fleet Captain Joined: 24 Jul 2008 Posts: 1897

Bolo_MK_XL · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject:

Want simple --

Do away with holding Overloads -- for any weapon --

Kang · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject:

You could do that as a house rule if you so wish....
_________________

mojo_billbo · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject:

I, being the worst "offender" of the moving baseline 8 first turn while overloading photons and moving baseline 24 the second turn think that no acceleration limits are great! Don't change the game!

However, on a per scenario basis, if there is some "unusual" local space situations, I can see on a per scenario basis of having an acceleration limit.

Don't change the game, unless you're going to give me larger photon firing arcs since I'm moving so slow...

ericphillips · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:06 pm Post subject:

While I agree that SFB had creep over time, if you go back to early versions of the game before a lot was added on, acceleration limits were an integral part of the base game, long before PFs, weird drones, or fighters were in the game (although they did call armed shuttles fighters, but these were limited to speed 6 with one ph-3).

Kang · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject:

Iirc, in the Designer's Edition (the one I started with) the original Kzinti Attack Shuttles were Spd 8 with an FA P-3 and two drones. Which were also speed-8, incidentally.....

These were the original fighters, not the standard admin shuttles, which indeed had a P-3 - 360 but were never intended to be fighters.

Fwiw, I personally prefer the lowered priority given to admin shuttles in FC. I like the lack of these artificial 'fighters' with their extra phasers that just add to the map clutter.
_________________

Nerroth · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject:

One thing to bear in mind is that in SFB, you can still set campaigns in Y150 (or Y110, or Y65, or out in the old galaxy, or over in the LMC prior to Y175, or...) and not have to worry about non-Hydran fighters at all.

Perhaps part of the issue might be the overwhelming impetus towards General War-era combat, where carriers, gunboats and no end of seekers have made their mark; if there was a healthier balance of eras or settings being played (and being talked about on the boards) it might make it easier to not feel obligated to deal with them as often.
_________________
FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion

Klingon of Gor · Lieutenant SG Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 150

My take on speed limits is fairly simpe. I liked SFB when it first came out, but quickly lost interest as the rules multiplied exponentially. I don't want Fedcom to become more like SFB, because frankly, I refuse to play SFB.

The acceleration limit strikes me as a rule that increases complexity for no real improvement to the game. Granted, it helps the Feds to be able to plot speed 8 one turn 1 while they overload the photons, and speed 24 the next turn. And admittedly, I used that in last night's game to defeat a Lyran squadron. But. Whether I had plotted speed 8, speed 16, or speed 24 on turn 2, I was still going to be at range 8 at some point, and those photons were were going to be fired at that Lyran heavy dread, regardless. After that, it's the luck of the dice whether the photons hit or not. I rolled 8 hits out of 12. So the Forest Lion took 116 internals. That's a pretty serious mauling, regardless of what speed the Feds are going. At that, the heavy dread was still in the game. (That's why they call it a HEAVY dread.) And I think that even then, the Lyran player still had a chance to pull it out.

I think the real issue in a lot of cases comes down to whether or not you're playing on an open or closed board. Some things (Fusion fleets, photon torpedoes, heavy plasma) just work differently on a closed board. Basically, heavy crunch rules on a closed board, and it will likely take heavy crunch to beat it.

An opponent of mine is fond of pointing out that basically, Feds are a luck race. A lot of what happens will come down to what happens with that first photon torpedo volley. If most of the photons find their mark, if the Feds roll hot dice, that may be the game right there. The target will either limp home to a body and fender shop or become an expanding cloud of debris. If most of the photons miss, if the dice are unkind, that may be the game right there. Because no way are you going to have those torpedoes live next turn, and the enemy will be free to climb all over you.

On balance, I don't think accelration limits would change any of the above, they would just add another layer of complexity.
_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K Dick

ericphillips · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject:

It would do a lot, actually:

1. Improve plasma by having ships that are going slower not being able to max out their speed from say 8 to 24 over the turn break. A ship at baseline-8 could go no faster than baseline-16 (remember, they could still pay for acceleration). This also help because opponents to plasma Empires might choose 24 for baseline more than 16 to escape the plasma, which means less offensive power. Same for drone races to an extent.

2. Make certain races not take a baseline-0 on turn 1 in order to overload and then speed up to 16 or 24 the next turn, meaning they are trading speed for offensive power.

3. Stop the use of emergency decel to stay out of crunch range. As it is I have had enemies who had fired out all weapons emergency decel on impulse 7 or 8 to stay out of crunch range of my weapons, then go to speed 24 the next turn with weapons all fresh and ready.

4. Make scenarios dealing with running away after being stopped have more strategy- in other words, the way they played in SFB.

So, there you go, four tangible real improvements to the game, IMHO.

BTW: If you liked SFB when it first came out, speed limits were a part of it so it must have not been what turned you away. This is one rule that can be summed up into a sentence or two:

SPEED LIMITS: A unit is limited to taking a baseline speed no more than one higher the previous turn. Stopped and speed 0 can both choose baseline-8. Units can still accelerate on each impulse. A unit can still choose any lower speed without limit, even going from baseline-24 to 0.