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Ships list for REINFORCEMENTS ATTACK
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with two sets of 40 one-inch counters is that it becomes very complicated for production, as it takes 1.5 sheets. It also makes the product more expensive to produce. (The one we did that way came in way over budget and we cannot do that again.)
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contents for FC REINFORCEMENTS ATTACK
We can start by considering one ship per empire, which would be 15 ships. It is a fair bet that we will get two ships for most empires, but we will not know until later. We might end up with a third ship for some empires.
We can also assume that no flagships (CCH, DWL, or CWL) will be picked, and no ships for Borders of Madness (escorts, scouts, carriers, maulers, penals). We will not have heavy war destroyers, survey ships, CWFs, or commando ships because we would have to have all of them and that would become the first pick for every empire. I left out all of the Fed plasma/drone variants as they might make nice booster packs of their own, ones that would not necessarily need counters.
Also not available are double-sized cards such as battleships, hive ship, nest ship, etc.
======
GENERIC
First/Second choice: Ground Bases (2),
Other choices: Prime Corvette,
Not available: skids, ducktails
=
FEDERATION
First choice: Fast destroyer
Second Choice: Old CA
Other choices: BCP,
=
KLINGON
First choice: F6B
Second choice: D7D or G2
Other choices: E7, SD7 Strike Cruiser,
Not available: F6
=
ROMULAN:
First choice: K7R,
Second Choice: KD5R or Vulture
Other choices: KD5WR, KC7R, RegalHawk, SparrowHawk-J
=
KZINTI:
First choice: Destroyer,
Second Choice: POL
Other choices: Drone Frigate,
=
GORN:
First choice: Destroyer-Battlecruiser
Second Choice: Cruiser-Dreadnought
Other choices: DNT,
Unlikely choice: unrefitted DD worth about 75 or 80 points.
=
THOLIAN:
First choice: TK5,
Second Choice: CAP
Other choices: police ship.
=
ORION:
First choice: Medium Raider,
Second Choice:
Other choices: BRH, DCR
=
HYDRAN:
First choice: D7H,
Second Choice: Cheyenne
Other choices: Templar, Crusader
=
ANDROMEDAN:
First choice: Viper,
Second Choice:
Other choices: Satellite Base, Base Station, Recon Cobra
Unlikely choices: Imposer, Infestor,
=
LYRAN:
First choice: Open
Second Choice:
Other choices: DND, HDD, HFF, POL, CAL, JGP (non-modular combat mode)
=
WYN:
First choice: BCH
Second Choice: Aux-DN
Other choices: CF, DN,
=
ISC:
First choice:
Second Choice:
Other choices: CF, DNH, DNL, CM
Not going to be considered: Post-Andro Canton Ships (e.g., CW)
=
VUDAR:
First choice: CF
Second Choice: BCH
Other choices:
=
SELTORIAN:
First choice: CF
Second Choice: NCL
Other choices:
=
END OF LIST
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I updated the list and deleted a lot of posts that were requests to add something to the list. (I added the something in question to the list, sometimes in the "not gonna happen" category). I deleted the whole shock discussion because the F6B side-steps the question.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, is the post-Andro restriction only for the ships converted out in the cantons, or for those built in the ISC proper, or for both types?

(While both the CW and NDD use the DD as a base for conversion, the CW is a "war" class built in numbers in the ISC home shipyards, while the NDD is a "system" ship converted out in the isolated cantons.)


EDIT: And is the Orion Prime Traitor in the "not gonna happen" pile? (I didn't see it in the updated list.)
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to be bold, and make some comments on individual items. Please note these are my opinions and should not be taken by anyone to reflect decisions. I am merely trying to stir discussion, not force decisions or force my preferences. And, maybe, to fill in some of the blanks.

Federation: I would prefer to swap the order of the DDF and OCA. The OCA had wider usage, whereas the DDF was a one-off that died a quick death.

Romulan: Since there are so many ships listed, you can probably drop the KD5WR, KC7R, and SPH-J, as the other four are stronger candidates. This would drop their list of ships down to the same number as the others.

Andromedan: I suggest the SatBase as the "second choice". The main reason is that it was the most common base originally encountered.

Lyran: While this would give them the smallest ship of anyone, I recommend the POL. It is a good ship that was widely used, whereas the others were either unique or special use. There is no particularly good second choice. Let's say the JGP.

ISC: I recommend the CM as the first choice and the CF as the second choice.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nerroth wrote:
To clarify, is the post-Andro restriction only for the ships converted out in the cantons, or for those built in the ISC proper, or for both types?

Seeing as the two ships that provoked that response were the CW and DW, I would take it to mean any of them. Besides, the ISC already have four "standard" ships for consideration, and anything else would be behind them, regardless of any canton restrictions.
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ctchapel
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather have the CAL over the JGP. It's a command cruiser: a 9 point ship in F&E, and has production options not as restrictive as the JGP.
Before HDWs only 2 JGP are allowed. I know that isn't a factor for most FC players, but it is for me.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctchapel wrote:
I would rather have the CAL over the JGP. It's a command cruiser: a 9 point ship in F&E, and has production options not as restrictive as the JGP.
Before HDWs only 2 JGP are allowed. I know that isn't a factor for most FC players, but it is for me.

Again, the point of using the JGP is that it would not be an HDW. It would not be modular. All it would be is a normal ship. No options. In effect, it would end up being a totally different ship in FC.

The problem with the CAL is that it wasn't made. It doesn't exist, and never did. Quite frankly, I would think that the DND (which, while unique, did exist) would have to be produced long before the CAL (which would have been created from the DND).

So, if it is flat out not possible for the JGP to shed its semi-HDW heritage, then I would end up advocating for the DND instead.

(Of course, the funny part here is that I am advocating against the CAL, despite the fact that I asked to add it to the list and have tried to get it done before.)
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the Feds, not that they need any more ships, another option would be the Fast NCL. Two of them did exist, and they are likely a little better armed than the DDF.

The Lyrans definitely need their POL, even if it appears wimpy compared to the other ships.

And for the Andros, I think the Recon Cobra should be added. I agree that the SAT and VIP are neccesary as well, but as it stands the Andros can't really participate in a "small fleet" battle with any squadron other than a mother and a Python. There should be a smaller alternative to the Python availalbe as a self-mobile sattellite ship.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fast NCL was not included, because that is introducing a whole new class (the fast war cruisers), which the module is not intended to contain.

I asked for the Recon Cobra to be included for the exact reason you state. Perhaps the Andros can be one of the "three ship" empires. Do realize, however, that while the Recon Cobra may have a lower point value, it is as much 'target' as 'combatant'.
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jeffery smith
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:55 pm    Post subject: ships list for rienforcements attack Reply with quote

i would like to make the folloing suggestion. the Federation,Romulans,Hydrans and the Klingons appear to have the largest amount of published shipcards to date. I would suggest limiting them to 1 ship each. the "war and peace" race's have not had a add-on (attack module) yet so they should get 3 ships. everyone else should get 2 ships and if there is any left over slots they could go either to the "war and Peace" race's, the Orions or the Fed,Kli,Rom, or Hyd's. I would suggest the Feds get the DDF, and the Rom's get Vul to flesh out the "Eagle" fleet.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with that is:
1. The Hydrans and Romulans have more ship classes than the other empires.
2. The Klingons don't have very many laminated cards.

I would, although I'm a feddie, be okay with the feds only getting 1 ship, but I think the feds sell too well for them to do that.

Also, why is the E5 not on the Klingon list? I know it's a franken-ship, but it's more common (and more usefull) than the E7, which is on the list.
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefferey, hopefully this isn't an equal opportunity discussion. I am sure at some point or another they will release Andromedans Attack and it will contain all of the ISC and Andromedan ships we would like to see (Vudar of course coming in some Civil Wars module), but until then why create a non-focused ISC ATTACK/Reinforcements ATTACK hybrid that really has no theme. Honestly we haven's seen new Klingon and Romulan warships for quite some time (Federation either unless you count the special one off boosters), I personally am looking forward to their re-appearance.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not bet 50-50 that War & Peace II will ever happen, given the sales of Hydran Attack.

Fed NCL Fast is a CWF which is outlawed by the introduction.

I won't know for months if there will be enough cards for everbody to have 2, let alone anybody to have 3. That said, I'm not sure that including a weak barely used ship (either of the Feds) is preferable to giving their slots to other empires with more need. (There were only two or three OCAs and one DDF, both types were considered failed designs.)
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jeffery smith
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:00 am    Post subject: ships list for reinforcements attack Reply with quote

Here is my reasoning for my suggestion. The numbers are incomplete because i can't purchase Transports Attacked until this friday.These counts are of lamenated cards only. The count is for ship classes not individual cards.
Federation=29, Hydrans=24, Romulans=20 (Eagles=4, Kestrals=4, Hawks=12), Lyrans/LDR=18, Gorns,Klingons,Kzinti & Tholians=16, Orions=13, Seltorians=10, Andromedans,ISC & WYN=7, Vudar=6.
If you do a little math you find the average number of ship classes for a fleet is 14.6 (round to 15).
To bring everyone up to this number would require the following: Orions=2, Seltorians=5, Andromedans,ISC, & WYN=8, Vudar=9 which just happens to total 40 ships.
Is this the way to go ?, Only SVC can truely answer that but since this is to be called "Reinforcements Attack" and those fleets are in need of reinforcements i think this could be a good way of doing it.
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