Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Romulan Kestrals
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Romulan Kestrals Reply with quote

Hopefully someone can help me here the OOH for F&E shows about 30 or 40 ships from the Klingon trade agreement with the Romulans (imho the Romulans got hosed on that deal, I much prefer the demon of the eastern wind scenario) is this accurate as far as the history goes, has there ever been a class history of the KR ships in a captains log?

On a side note it looks like in F&E you have many more ships then that per side in later battles so it seems like the Kestrels other than providing tactical warp are little more than a historical footnote.

What do you f and e players think about it, are there enough ships to matter?

Also is the KD5WR a conjectural ship?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SFU_FEAR
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The romulans got a C9(C8 ), 3xD7C, 3xD7, 9xD6, 2xTG-B, 4xF5L, 8xF5, 3xF5S, 12xE4 according to F&E (704.0) for 45 ships total.

I don't think there has been a KR history in Captain's Log, but my memory may be faulty.

Not sure what you mean about more kesterls being in battles later on. Some ships, such as the E4, have the same factors as some of the Romulan ships and when counters are short (Note: A problem that now rarely happens to me, Yes, My name is Mike, I am addicted to cardboard.).

The KD5WR is not listed in the current Romulan SIT. As such it is not even conjectural, it is non-existant.
_________________
Mike Curtis, FEAR, Copyright 2014 ADB, Inc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3491
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Romulan Kestrals Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:
... has there ever been a class history of the KR ships in a captains log?

No, no such history has ever been written.

Quote:
... so it seems like the Kestrels other ... are little more than a historical footnote.

Well, depends. 45 is a non-trivial number. Are Federation OCLs historical footnotes? They could pretty much just be tossed and replaced with a like number of DDs. 45 is a pretty good number, so I would think they are more than just a 'footnote'.

Quote:
Also is the KD5WR a conjectural ship?

I don't have G3 handy, but it is either conjectural or an "unbuilt variant". It was something they could have done with their three KDRs, but chose not to. As such, they don't even appear in F&E.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys for your responses both very helpful. 45 ships is more than a footnote agreed, but with such a limited repair capability it seems like they would get pecked off pretty quickly.

In a typical homeworld assault ( say on the Kzinti capitol) how many ships are there per side, how many get destroyed? How many ships are there in an empire when all is said and done? I have seen it mentioned that there are hundreds and hundreds of counters out of at a time, I am trying to determine the scope of the game and universe itself are there hundreds of war cruiser class and up ships or merely 50 or so at a time?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nerroth
Captain


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1568
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The R-section in Captain's Log #40 for the K5W noted that more Kestrels were shipped to the Romulans in 2592, during the Andromedan War; the various neighbours agreed that sending the ships was worth the effort, in order to help keep the Romulans in the fight against the invaders.

There is no exact number on how many ships were sent overall, or on the number of F5Ws sent to be turned into K5Ws (it's guessed to be fewer then ten). Still, given how badly beaten the Romulan economy was by the time the Andros rolled around, every little helped.
_________________
FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good catch Nerroth thank you for pointing it out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dal Downing
Commander


Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 552
Location: Western Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have my books but I am pretty sure the KDR note is in the ship discription fluff for the RKL - Sparrowhawks traded/seized by the Klingons
_________________
-Dal

"Which one of you is the Biggest, Baddest, Bootlicker of the bunch?"
"I am."
"ARCHERS!!! THAT ONE!!!!"

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3491
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we mixing up the ships? Just in case ...

- KDR, aka KD5R: There were three of them that were "exchanged" for three Sparrowhawk hulls (which were, in turn, converted into the RKL). These were historical ships that served in the General War.
- KWR, aka KD5WR: These were conjectural/unbuilt ships. The above KDRs could have been converted to the KWR design, but the Romulans never did so. Historically, they never existed.
- K5W, aka KF5WR: These were sold to the Romulans during the Andromedan war, as outlined above by Gary. Note that these are completely different ships than either the KDR or the KWR.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4468
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Savedfromwhat wrote:

In a typical homeworld assault ( say on the Kzinti capitol) how many ships are there per side, how many get destroyed? How many ships are there in an empire when all is said and done? I have seen it mentioned that there are hundreds and hundreds of counters out of at a time, I am trying to determine the scope of the game and universe itself are there hundreds of war cruiser class and up ships or merely 50 or so at a time?

A typical assualt on the Kzinti homeworld around turn 3 or 4 usually has 300 to 400 ship equivalents on a side. Later in the war, there may be many more.
Several times in our games, we are moving around multiple fleet markers that each consist of 250 to 300 ship equivalents.

Total number dead depends on the player. Many will attack with 300, cripple most of them and retreat with 250 to 275 left (many crippled).
We have been known to attack with 300, self kill 50 to 60 of the smaller, cripple another 50 to 60, and retreat.

At Origins in 2004, we played Gale Force and attacked the Tholian homeworld. The Klingons alone lost 68 ships outright and crippled another 113. I do not remember how many the Romulans lost in the same attack, but it was proportionally similar.

Again, YMMV.
_________________


Scoutdad's minis photos here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad, thanks for your reply. That many ships seems really high to me, that is surely only a percentage of the ships available to the Klingons so are we talking close to 1000 ships per empire? Not trying to derail my own thread here, I am just trying to determine the relevancy of 45 Klingon ships over a 20-40 year period in the Romulan Empire.

BTW there are ten names given for Romulan KR's in the Romulan Border ship description, are those names considered "historical"?

(we use the term historical right? not canon?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4468
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, with the Klignons and the Feds, it gets well beyond 1000 ships. And that's only whats on teh board at one time.

If you factor in all the ships produced (and destroyed) during the course of the war, even the smallest empires approach 1000 units and the biggers ones hit multiple thousands.
_________________


Scoutdad's minis photos here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the Roms first got them, they were a very significant upgrade to the Romulan capabilities. That, plus the technology they got from the Treaty of Smarba, turned them from a nuisance into a genuine threat. The KRs also helped the Romulans kick the Orion Pirates out of their territory. By the time of the General War, the Romulan fleet was much larger and more modern, so the Kestrels were probably less important. Still, some of the larger ships like the DN and BCH were still important, because of the role that large command ships play strategically.

The KR names are historical IIUC.
_________________
"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nerroth
Captain


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1568
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't remember where it was noted, but I recall a note being made somewhere (probably back on the BBS) that the fleets that can be built using the Federation and Empire game engine can end up being much larger than the actual fleets the various Alpha Octant empires "historically" built; or perhaps it was there being more kills in the "real" war, or something. I don't recall exactly.


As a point of comparison, I just took a look at the Y186 OOB for the Concordium fleet in ISC War, and (if you don't count the auxiliaries, fighters, PFs or strategic reserves) you're "only" looking at around 528 ships, give or take, on the board at the start of the Pacification; and that for a fleet which was reported as being among the largest ever assembled in the Alpha Octant as a whole.
_________________
FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steve Cole
Site Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that the Y186 orders of battle do not account for hundreds of ships that were sold off for civilian use in late Y185 and early Y186. That's how the empires paid off their national debts and recovered in 5 years instead of 15.
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nerroth
Captain


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1568
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be the case for the General War combatants, yes, but not for the ISC; who were only beginning to launch their own operations (and had reportedly been building up their fleets on a "war" footing for the five years prior to the Pacification).

Actually, the more I think of it, the more I wonder just how relatively large the Pacification fleet is supposed to be. Was it only so large and powerful because of the sell-offs by the other empires (and because so many of the remaining ships in the other fleets were still marked as crippled by Y186) or did it still compare well to what any other empire would have built up over ten turns' worth of wartime construction?

(But then, the pacification fleet might have looked differently had the ISC actually been at war; they might have put their own "war" classes into production, which would have had an impact on how many ships they could afford to build in a given turn. Plus they would have had to worry about replacing ships lost in combat.)
_________________
FC Omega Discussion (v3)
FC LMC Discussion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group