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The 2400's
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:55 am    Post subject: The 2400's Reply with quote

When I first heard about the deal with Mongoose I was excited. I still am to a degree. Not when it comes to the mini's though.

Here is why:

A. The Scale. The mongoose minis will be simply too big to be of best use when playing Starfleet Battles or Federation Commander, which are my two favorite games.

B. Mongoose mini's will be made of resin, not metal like the 2400's. I prefer metal mini's for a few different reasons:Metal mini's, I can use a magnetic stand with, which makes it easier to store/transport them, and because the stand isn't glued onto them, people can enjoy the mini's from ALL angles and handle them freely. I spend a considerable amount of time painting my mini's and I like for folks to enjoy them as much as possible.

I have been quite hooked by the quality of the 2400 series and have decided that that is where I will invest my resources.

They say that the 2500's will have more detail, I believe that. But that same detail can be achieve through hard work (which I am not afraid to do) and good decals. There are excellent decal vendors out there that will accommodate what you need.

The 2500's will be excellent to be sure, if your are playing starmada or call to arms. I'm just afraid with their large scale, they will not cut it for me playing Starfleet Battles and Federation Commander.

SVC says, "if we keep buying the 2400's, they'll keep making 'em". Well, I'll be one of the folks still buying the 2400's. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Sllarr
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

The 2500's will be excellent to be sure, if your are playing starmada or call to arms.


For ACTA , yes (which is obviously Mongoose's main focus). I disagree with this statement regarding Starmada. I play Starmada in the same hex maps we use for FedCom and the problem with the larger minis will be much more significant with fleets of 10 to 15 per side. Actually the 2400 scale is already borderline in my opinion.
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the Starmada thing, I know nothing about that game.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4461
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: The 2400's Reply with quote

leathernsteel wrote:
When I first heard about the deal with Mongoose I was excited. I still am to a degree. Not when it comes to the mini's though.

Here is why:

Took me a while to get my post together.. .sorry for the delay.


Quote:
A. The Scale. The mongoose minis will be simply too big to be of best use when playing Starfleet Battles or Federation Commander, which are my two favorite games.

We've been discussing this issue on the Mongoose board. Several of us have expressed concerns about the new scale. While OK for a mapless game like ACTA, there are some valid concerns [and some thought provoking reasons why it would be imprident to request all SFB/FC player to purchase new maps]
End result... it's still up in the air.
Mongoose is still debating what the final scale will be. Will it remain 1:3125? or will it go to the original 1:3788? or somewhere in between? Who knows?
At least they're talkign about it, and that's the beauty of computer designed models. You design them on-screen and then print at whatever size you choose.

Quote:
B. Mongoose mini's will be made of resin, not metal like the 2400's. I prefer metal mini's for a few different reasons:Metal mini's, I can use a magnetic stand with, which makes it easier to store/transport them, and because the stand isn't glued onto them, people can enjoy the mini's from ALL angles and handle them freely. I spend a considerable amount of time painting my mini's and I like for folks to enjoy them as much as possible.

Resin minis lend themselves to magnetic bases quite well.
All of my resin Flames of War vehicles have magnets on the turrets. These allow removal and rotation.
I am currently converting all my SFB/FC minis to the Ninja Magic magnetic adapters. These will work just as well on resin minis as on the current metal ones.
And if you just buy rare earth magnets and convert the existing stands, that'll work with resin, too. Beter than with metal most likely as the resin can be drilled easier.

Quote:
I have been quite hooked by the quality of the 2400 series and have decided that that is where I will invest my resources.

With over 1200 on the ST2400 minis - don't expect me to dump them all nd go to the ST2500s either. Although I will buy some and use them for demos and such.

Quote:
ey say that the 2500's will have more detail, I believe that. But that same detail can be achieve through hard work (which I am not afraid to do) and good decals. There are excellent decal vendors out there that will accommodate what you need.

Hmmm. I [and many others that I know] can get an amazing amount of detail painbted onto a relatively small mini - see the painted Lyrans on my photbucket page for examples...]; but even if the new resin ones come in at 1:3788 scale, I think the end results will be even better if you start with a more detailed miniature.

Quote:
0's will be excellent to be sure, if your are playing starmada or call to arms. I'm just afraid with their large scale, they will not cut it for me playing Starfleet Battles and Federation Commander.

As has been pointed out on the Mongoose board by several of the Fed Comm forum members.

Quote:
s, "if we keep buying the 2400's, they'll keep making 'em". Well, I'll be one of the folks still buying the 2400's. Just my 2 cents worth.
As will I.
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the points I failed to bring up is that I simply like the weight of the 2400's. Thanks for the input, Scoutdad. I would like to learn more about the magnetic stands. I suppose I'll look into Ninja Magic.
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Monty
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel the same.

Though the new minis have the potential for excellent detail and a great overall model I'm not sure about the playability of larger scale.

I would prefer the scale to remain the same and see 'Zochi-quality' for the all the new resin ships.

Monty
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Steve Cole
Site Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3051

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, market forces will determine who was right and who wasn't.
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
In the end, market forces will determine who was right and who wasn't.
In the end, I don't mind being wrong, so long as the best product is left standing. True capitalism left to it's own devices will always yield this reward! The reason I am so concerned is that I am at a crossroads in my mini collection, I only have four mini's. I must try to predict which way the wind will blow and also try to direct it in my favor.
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Monty
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 231

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you only have four you aren't really invested. I'd consider those good painting practice for the new ones.

I currently own 250+ Starline 2400 mini's, will I collect as many 2500's? I doubt it. Will I mix the two scales in the same game? Probably not.

The market may determine the bigger mini's fit the Mongoose combat system Call to Arms better than FedCom since it doesnt require hexes and may not sport floating map tactics for ships constantly flying at 24+1 speeds.

Competition and choice will be good for the consumer.
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 785
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What will drive the mini market:
Players who are loyal to a company they've been dealing with for decades --
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monty wrote:
If you only have four you aren't really invested. I'd consider those good painting practice for the new ones.
That was my thinking when I bought them. I purchased them after the Mongoose announcement. And they were really good painting practice. The problem is that I "fell in love" with them, LOL Laughing .
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4461
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll trade problems with you. Wink

Actually, I think I have the solution to my issue.
I intend to continue bilding my ST2400 collection and will use those ships for massive ACTA fleet battles.

I'll also buy one or two each of the ST2500 minis and use those for Federation Commander games.

There's nothing like Cool a plan!!!
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad, if you've decided to commit to the 2500's, here's an idea for a plan B. Sell all your painted 2400's and use the proceeds to get 2500's. There are folks out there that like the mini's but don't like to paint them and will gladly fork over the dough to get some finished ones.

Regardless of what happens, I'm going to buy at least one of the 2500's to try it out.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4461
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think I haven't thought of that, but I can't seem to part with painted minis. Never have been able to.

that's why my game room has been classified as an EPA Superfund site... Shocked
and the local fire Department has had to take a special HazMat training course dealing with lead particulates in smoke and molten heavy metals. Rolling Eyes

Hopefully, casa de'Tomas will never burn, but if it does, the local FD is well versed in the special hazards present. Cool
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leathernsteel
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Location: Orlando, FL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scoutdad wrote:
Don't think I haven't thought of that, but I can't seem to part with painted minis. Never have been able to.

that's why my game room has been classified as an EPA Superfund site... Shocked
and the local fire Department has had to take a special HazMat training course dealing with lead particulates in smoke and molten heavy metals. Rolling Eyes

Hopefully, casa de'Tomas will never burn, but if it does, the local FD is well versed in the special hazards present. Cool
Your post was so good, I had to quote the whole thing. I know what you mean about parting with the painted mini's. I just wanted to throw the idea out there in case you hadn't considered the option. As far as the local fire Department goes, even if the Adromadan invaders were lucky enough to light your place on fire, I'm sure the shield generators on each of your ships would be more than up to the task of dealing with a simple fire. Those ships would simply warp out, or disengage by other means before the FD even showed up on the scene.
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