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Borders of Madness Decision #1: which scout?
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Which scout ships should be in BoM #1?
Scouts based on war cruisers
11%
 11%  [ 5 ]
Scouts based on war destroyers
29%
 29%  [ 13 ]
Scouts based on a wide variety of ships
59%
 59%  [ 26 ]
Total Votes : 44

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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:53 pm    Post subject: Borders of Madness Decision #1: which scout? Reply with quote

Should all scouts be created equal (avoiding game balance issues) and if so, which scout should we provide?

And if we provide a wide variety of ships, are you willing to accept that your favorite empire will get the puny one?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have to say the early returns are not what I expected ...
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I voted small scouts, my logic being that in most games just a few sensors on a ship hanging back can make a significant difference. More sensors may not make any extra difference, yet it is a lot of points sunk into that bigger ship with more sensors. So I see more use being made of small scouts than large scouts.
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Burning Chrome
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing the D6S falls in the "wide variety of ships" category?
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duxvolantis
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Joined: 16 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Borders of Madness Decision #1: which scout? Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
Should all scouts be created equal (avoiding game balance issues) and if so, which scout should we provide?

And if we provide a wide variety of ships, are you willing to accept that your favorite empire will get the puny one?

If it were possible I would like 1 'standard scout' and 1 'unusual scout' per empire.

Just about everybody should have a scout based on a decently-durable hull. If you only have one scout then it is just massively lopsided if your best scout has 2 channels and theirs has 4 or if yours has tissue-paper shields and lacks the power to chew gum and walk at the same time.

Then add in scouts based on interesting historical variants and racial flavour. For example the Fed DDS was nice because it had lots of channels but not really enough power to use them all in all modes in the same way that a full cruiser could. Likewise the drone races could get drone/scout variants, the Hydrans a fusion-based scout carrying stingers, and so on.

Note that if it were a balance issue, you could limit the number of scout channels in a fleet instead of limiting it to one scout+one auxiliary scout like SFB. That way if a race had a frigate-based scout they could take two and have pluses and minuses that would entail (more flexibility, less durability).

That all being said, the best option if there is only one per empire is to do a war cruiser scout. I'm not a big fan of cookie cutter fleets, but scouts are pretty integral and a scout disparity can swing a battle in a big way.

Yes, I want to have my cake and eat it too.... Greedy I guess.
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Dan Ibekwe
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for War Cruiser based scouts because they have useful amounts of power and are reasonably survivable, and are broadly balanced across the various empires. Frigate-based scouts were fun for intelligence gathering in SFB campaigns, but have a life expectancy measured in femtoseconds in a fleet battle. DW scouts are also not difficult to kill.

It might be worth playtesting to see how unbalancing something like a D6S would be, or whether the original Federation DD Scout (*eight* scout channels) has enough power to work at all.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
Well I voted small scouts, my logic being that in most games just a few sensors on a ship hanging back can make a significant difference. More sensors may not make any extra difference, yet it is a lot of points sunk into that bigger ship with more sensors. So I see more use being made of small scouts than large scouts.

The problem with small scouts is they don't have enough power to effectively use the scout channels. They are way more limited in what they can accomplish. However, with more limited options in FC/BoM, this may be mitigated some.

Burning Chrome wrote:
I'm guessing the D6S falls in the "wide variety of ships" category?

Yes, but there is no guarantee that is what would be chosen. It could just as easily end up being an F5S. When composing the ships in the module, there usually is an attempt to make the overall contributions "fair". That means if someone gets a better carrier, they could end up with a worse scout. Or something like that.

Again, "wide variety of ships" means you forfeit choice. It is whatever Steve wants to pick for whatever reason Steve wants to pick it. Someone will get "screwed". (Probably multiple someones.) Don't assume it won't be your favorite empire.

duxvolantis wrote:
That all being said, the best option if there is only one per empire is to do a war cruiser scout.

Steve has pretty much just said it will be a single scout per empire. Don't see where that was ambiguous.
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any ideal why when I log in I can not vote in this poll?
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jeffery smith
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:25 am    Post subject: Borders of madness decision #1: which scouts? Reply with quote

Well i voted for the wide varity approach. While it takes the "suggestions" out of our hands it will give us a glimps of how SVC "see's BoM"
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough question to answer IMO. Cruiser scouts have plenty of channels and the power to use them, but cost many points for something which does not do much damage to the enemy directly, it synergises with other units. More points on scout means less on other stuff. DW scouts have the opposite problem, leaves points for more/bigger ships but can't help as much. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

So I chose "variety".

Edited to add: Yes, I'm willing to accept my empire getting the puny one. Very Happy
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Last edited by terryoc on Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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duxvolantis
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Joined: 16 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:

Steve has pretty much just said it will be a single scout per empire. Don't see where that was ambiguous.


True. So I gave some feedback and then some unsolicited additional feedback Smile
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leathernsteel
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for the variety of scouts because I like all the empires and I trust SVC's judgment on picking the ships. Plus if a ship I want doesn't get put in, does that really mean it can't be added at some point in the future with a booster, an expansion, or an issue of captains log?
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: Borders of Madness Decision #1: which scout? Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
And if we provide a wide variety of ships, are you willing to accept that your favorite empire will get the puny one?

Does there have to be a puny one?
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Borders of Madness Decision #1: which scout? Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
Steve Cole wrote:
And if we provide a wide variety of ships, are you willing to accept that your favorite empire will get the puny one?

Does there have to be a puny one?

Sure. The option says "wide variety". So, that would seem to indicate that some should get nice big scouts to show those designs, and some should get smaller scouts in order to show those designs, too. There isn't a way to do a "wide variety" without including some of all sizes. And that means some will be getting the "small" size.
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Savedfromwhat
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this will go down in history as a be careful what you vote for reminder. I forsee the Romulans with a K4S in their future...
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