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Lyran ESG and a Movement order question

 
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Aabh
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 134
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Lyran ESG and a Movement order question Reply with quote

Okay, so I've sort of admitted we are noobies to FC (We played SFB, but back in the 80s... which means we don't remember much except that it was really hard... which appealed to us teenagers at the time Very Happy)

Last night we played a 2 on 1 (Which, by the way, was very cool that we could make one player on Squadron scale, and the other two on Fleet scale and it was simply a matter of turning the card over Very Happy)

The setup was that we had a Federation NCA and a Lyran CC (Fleet scale) on our side and a Kzinti BC (Squadron scale) on the other. The situation is the Kzinti BC is in Hex one, Facing A with the the Lyran CC in Hex 2 (Adjacent) facing D (Facing the BC) and the NCA in hex 4 (so, two hexes from the BC), also facing D (All of us are in a straight line, we had pursued the BC). There are two missiles en route: one on top of the Lyran in Hex 2, and one between the Lyran and the NCA in Hex 3.

1) When the Lyran CC fired off the ESG, does it destroy my missiles which were en route (Friendly missiles)? If so, does it damage the NCA if it's too close (In this situation it wasn't, but I was jockying for a better position and I had thought of closing in)?

2) Does the ESG in offensive mode use any kind of to-hit table (Like a phaser or photon torpedo) or is it a simple matter of "He turned it on, you take damage" sort of thing?

And the last one: 3) the Lyran had chewed through the forward shield of the BC completely, but was exhausted, so on the next Impulse, the NCA moved in for the kill with double overloaded photons... but we were all moving on the 4th sub-pulse... and we discovered a problem: since we all moved at the same time, the Kzinti player was going to turn his shield away from the NCA... while I'd (I was in charge of the NCA) want to side-slip to keep his open shield in front of me... but, as he said "Since we move at the same time, I'm going to turn the opposite way no matter which way you slip" Since this means the difference between taking overloaded photons on his down #1 or his completely up #5, this is an important thing... what is the order of precedence for movement when we are all moving on the same sub-pulse? If its a matter of who moves the counter first, in a situation like this it becomes a battle of wills ("You move first... No, YOU move first"), which doesn't seem like the way this game works... we are obviously missing something Very Happy

Thank you!
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1954
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry about it; we have all had to learn the game at some point Very Happy

Answers:

1) Objects damaged by an ESG are damaged in a set order, as laid out in Rule (5N2d) 'Offensive Burst', depending on range and size. If you read that section carefully, it should all become clear. I still have to consult that section every time someone fires an ESG where there are multiple targets Embarassed

2) No. No 'to hit' table is required. Just follow the order of damage as in '1' above; the damage is inflicted automatically.

3) What you need to do here is to use the correct order of precedence. The rules for this are in Rule (2A5). The psi-war situation that happened to your group should never really occur since even if everyone is scheduled to move at exactly the same time, a simultaneous written declaration would be made.

I hope this is helpful. I'm pretty sure these answers are correct; if not, no doubt someone will correct me Smile
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Last edited by Kang on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1870

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) The ESG in offensive mode, which is what you were looking to do would first kill off the missile on top of you before doing any damage to anything next to you. Yes even it if it is your missile. The ESG is totally indiscriminate. So that woud need 4 points of ESG damaage. After that the damage is taken half and half between the adjacent missile and adjacent ship, until the missile is destroyed - so another 8 points will kill the missile and do 4 points to the ship. After that all remaining ESG damage goes to just the ship.

So if you fired a full 5 point ESG. You do 20 damage. 4 to the missile on top of you, 4 to the missile next to you and 12 to the ship.

2) No - it is always auto hit.

3) You move slowest ship first then fastest ship, if that is the same you move in turn mode order (worst turn mode first). If you really are moving at the same time (same speed and same turn mode) then you each secretly choose your move and reveal it simultaneously. So no the other guy can't react to you if you really are simultaneous.

[edit - cross post with the above post]


Last edited by storeylf on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4468
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) See rule (5N2d) Offensive Burst:
Damage is applied to targets in the same hex... smallest to largest first.
You don't say how much power was used, so let's assume 5 points of energy for 20 points of damage.
The drone in hex 2 takes 1 point of damage... no other targets in hex 2, so drone takes another point... repeat... repeat. After the drone receives 4 points of damage, it's destroyed adn the remaining 16 points of damage spread to the adjacent hexes, damaging smallest targets first.
The drone in hex 3 takes one point... the Z-BC in hex 1 takes 1 point.
The drone in hex 3 takes one point... the Z-BC in hex 1 takes 1 point.
The drone in hex 3 takes one point... the Z-BC in hex 1 takes 1 point.
The drone in hex 3 takes one point... the Z-BC in hex 1 takes 1 point.
the drone is now destroyed and a total of 12 of the ESGs 20 points are accounted for.
As the only other valid target in range is the BC, it will take the remaining 8 points.
If the NCA had been in hex 3, it would also have been included in the mix.

2) No, no to hit table. You're there - you're hit.

3) Simultaneous movement.
It multiple units move in the same impulse follow the order of precedence set in (2A5) Order of Precedence.
Slowest ships move first (this gives advantages to going faster)
Ships moving the same speed - move in turn mode order.
AA moves after A, which moves after B, which moves after C, etc.
Units moving the same speed with the same turn mode: record the movement on paper (or use the Command Cards included in FC: Orion Attack), reveal simultaneously, and execute the moves.

[edit] I guess Lee was the faster typist today! Wink ]
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Savedfromwhat
Commander


Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 641

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Yes you destroy both missiles the one in your hex first, then you can apply 4 damage points to the BC then 4a points to the middle behind you and then 8 more points into the BC. If the NCA had been one hex closer it also would have taken damage.

2)I hate you scoutdad... JK
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1870

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least 3 people typing answers at the same time, not bad. Bonus points as they don't contradict each other. Smile
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Aabh
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 134
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was awesome! Thank you!

We had read 5N2d and were a little confused. We went with the theory that it took out all the missiles (Much to the Z-BC players happiness). the Kzinti player is an avid roleplayer and asked "You mean it just automatically hits? Even when I'm making evasive maneuvers!?!?" I tried to help him visualize an expanding sphere of nastiness that you can't escape from... but I promised I'd ask Very Happy

We had a physical copy of Klingon Border and a pdf copy of the complete rule book on my tablet, and we just could not find the order of precedence, thank you so much on that one! Since the Z-BC was at movement zero, and I was at movement 8, he would have moved first and I would have then slipped to intercept (That would have changed that combat! Very Happy) As it was, we "rolled off" and rolled dice, with the one with the highest number making the move first. We are all long-time friends who aren't playing "to win", but rather playing to play, so it really wasn't much of a psi-war Very Happy

Anyway, thank you all for the quick and very concise response! Very Happy
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1954
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess at the end of the day as long as you had fun, then everyone was a winner. In a sense Twisted Evil
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3488
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The answer were all correct. The best part is that the relevant rules were even noted. Nice work guys ...
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