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Intruders vs Heavy Dreads

 
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Klingon of Gor
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Intruders vs Heavy Dreads Reply with quote

I played a couple of duels recently, with an Andro Intruder facing heavy dreads. In one, I played a Klingon C10. In the other, I took an intruder against a Fed heavy dread.

In neither case did the Intruder do well. When I played Klingons, my opponent was beset by bad die rolls. He kept trying to displace me, and could roll only fives and sixes. He was using his TRHs at about range 9-10 so as to stay out of overload range. Although at one point, at the end of impulse 8, he was facing me on a reciprocal course. I don't remember the exact range (I should have kept notes). I had been running speed 16, in order to be able to turn faster. (I didn't want him on my six), and also to have more power to soak damage and fire weapons. But I realized that if I kicked up the speed to 24 and bought a point of acceleration, I could have him at range 8 before he could come about. (He was doing speed 24.) He had, at that point, no live TRHs and no live disdevs, having tried twice to displace me on the previous turn. He turned just fast enough to take the shot on the back panels. All six disruptors hit at range 8, and five of them were overloaded. It filled his back panels most of the way up. (I had to drain the batteries to do that, but I plotted speed 8 next turn, so I could charge them back up)

A couple of observations. First, for Andros, disruptors can be the death of a thousand cuts. Feds can put 79 hits on the front panel, and it's only one leaker point. Disruptors can cause a slow accumulation of leaker points.

Second, firing only one drone per impulse creates, for the andros, a serious nuisance. They are constantly dodging and swatting drones. IN some ways, a single drone per impulse seems to be harder to deal with than a single swarm.

My opponent got his revenge when he played the Feds. I came in at speed 24, he plotted speed 16. I decided to disdev him, and see if he ended up in a spot where I could make a close firing pass while he was disrupted. It worked well. I made the disdev roll, and then by buying a point of acceleration ended at range 4, where I gouged a big chunk out of his front sheild. (I couldn't get at a flank sheild. ) I used my second disdev to get to a safe distance. range 4 in the front arc of a Fed dread packing six overloads is not a good place to be.

And then everything went downhill. My opponent had not been firing at me, except for one phaser volley that pt six points on the front panel. After than he held fire. And after I disdeved out, he came after me at speed 24 with murderous intent.

Here's the problem. If the Feds hold their fire until they get cloe enoughto do decisive damage, then once the Andros batteries are drained, he can't run speed 24, keep his panels running, and still do much in the way of powering weapons. I found that I could plot speed 16, and self displace. This would keep me out of effective photon range, and still allow me to have ten points of reserve power. That doesn't give me enough to power the TRHs, recharge the batteries, and fire the phasers. (Lots of drone racks on a Fed dread) And if you blow a dislacement roll, the dread is suddenly eight hexes closer. You can eventually recharge enough batteries to make a second firing pass, but by then, the Feds can repair their sheilds.

In both games, real world time constraints kept us from playing to a conclusion. An Andro win in a duel with a dread seems likely to be a long game.

This is not to say that the Andros could not have won these duels. My conclusion here is that I must study Andro tactics more closely.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Intruders vs Heavy Dreads Reply with quote

Klingon of Gor wrote:


Second, firing only one drone per impulse creates, for the andros, a serious nuisance. They are constantly dodging and swatting drones. IN some ways, a single drone per impulse seems to be harder to deal with than a single swarm.


This is usually the best way to use drones irrespectve of andros. A big stack looks nice and tasty if it hits, but it won't hit. A single stack is easily avoided. Fire drones to provide a good spread and depth. That way they can't be readily avoided in a way that also allows the enemy to get past them, without using something to shoot them down.

Drones can be a nasty coup de grace under some circumstances, but on the whole they are there for nuisance value so you should maximise the nuisance value rather than fixate on a big stack that will never hit a good player.

That's my thougts on drones anyway - I know others say the lack of T-Bombs etc make big stacks the way to go, but I disagree.

Quote:
Here's the problem. If the Feds hold their fire until they get cloe enough to do decisive damage, then once the Andros batteries are drained, he can't run speed 24, keep his panels running, and still do much in the way of powering weapons. I found that I could plot speed 16, and self displace. This would keep me out of effective photon range, and still allow me to have ten points of reserve power. That doesn't give me enough to power the TRHs, recharge the batteries, and fire the phasers. (Lots of drone racks on a Fed dread) And if you blow a dislacement roll, the dread is suddenly eight hexes closer.


Power is a killer for andros, especially in a multi ship game, where 1 andro will be the target taking more damage that it can shed, whilst the rest are gushing battery power just operating, by a few turns in they are in trouble. 1 vs 1 can see the same thing if the andro is not careful, the enemy, if he has the nerve to risk it, can withold fire awaiting the andro shot, possible using EM to mitigate it, then once the andro is short on power he has the edge if he hasn't been hit to badly in that first pass.

As the andro you need to watch for this, don't waste accels closing the range on turn 1 unless really vital, start with full batteries in most cases (they empty pretty quickly).

PS: I have found my self in the past playing andros and delibertaly ramming drones in order to get power.
PPS: 3A3 is a terrible rule for andros Very Happy
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Capt Jack
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Storeylf says is true.

What I've found playing against Andros is they are very good 1 vs 1 But when they have multiple ship they are easy prey.

Drones are very good against andros if they can't go 24, due to lack of power( i.e you,ve not shot at that ship).
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kirbykibble
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

on most occasions, the andros should be dominating (hence a ship name)
i become somewhat annoyed at the PA's when going against them as it is nearly impossible to burn through a shield.
if i do, its is fatal.
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drones seem to be a serious problem for the andros, especially the smaller ships. I recently play Three Against Cortez and lost badly due to the fact that I had to use my phasers (and those on my Cobra) to keep the drones at bay.
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kirbykibble
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i also played 3 against cortez.
my opponent had a bad position and i won because he forgot to launch his satellite ships and had to use 5 energy if he wanted to. he would then not have enough power to fire as many weapons that he would like to.
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duxvolantis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinecone wrote:
Drones seem to be a serious problem for the andros, especially the smaller ships. I recently play Three Against Cortez and lost badly due to the fact that I had to use my phasers (and those on my Cobra) to keep the drones at bay.

The drone defense used to be t-bombs. No longer.

I miss t-bombs Smile
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have found that if you don't keep providing them with power, an Andro opponent will run out of power pretty quickly. Holding fire until a decisive shot can be made is a valid strategy.

As is the 'death of a thousand cuts'. Burnthrough points do mount up, and for an Andro, losing a Transporter is not a good thing as it reduces his ability to launch H&R raids.

A balance of the two strategies is not really practical, though, unless at different times in the duel. Either you pick at him and provide him with power, or you wait until he runs out of power - or, do one strategy first and then switch later.....
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Klingon of Gor
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:

Quote:
A balance of the two strategies is not really practical, though, unless at different times in the duel. Either you pick at him and provide him with power, or you wait until he runs out of power - or, do one strategy first and then switch later.....


Based on my experience of playing against Andros, I strongly agree. You choose the tactics that best fit the weapons you have. As a Klingon, you can get good results by picking away at them with disruptors. As a Fed, you can afford to hold back on the big photon hammer until his power is low, as it can inflict decisive damage, and once his power is low, it may be easier to obtain a good shot. Like the man said, know your enemy, know yourself, and go with what works.

I mentioned to my opponent in the last game that I had been wondering about the viability of a Dominator against a Fed squadron of 450 points give or take. We've tried an Intruder and a couple of satellite ships as a squadron, but it hasn't fared very well. The enemy concentrates fire on the Intruder, and once it is wrecked, the satellite ships don't last long. As it turned out, we played something that evening that did not involve Andros, but we may yet try that matchup out.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always thought that the Dominator is a little overpointed at 457 points, when the ISC BB is 360 points. I think the ISC BB could toast the Dominator any day of any week if properly handled. But that's probably getting off-topic.....
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Kang
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klingon of Gor wrote:
As a Fed, you can afford to hold back on the big photon hammer until his power is low, as it can inflict decisive damage, and once his power is low, it may be easier to obtain a good shot.

Yep. That was the kind of thing I meant Very Happy
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semperatis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how the Dom would fare vs the FRA DN. Cool
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pinecone
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kang wrote:
I have always thought that the Dominator is a little overpointed at 457 points, when the ISC BB is 360 points. I think the ISC BB could toast the Dominator any day of any week if properly handled. But that's probably getting off-topic.....


Start with full batteries. With careful movement planning, Displace into his Myopic Zone. Hit him hard. Then, catch him in a tractor and use all that reserve battery power for the auction as neccesary. Next turn, do a power dump to the rear panels and hit him again. Next turn, bring the forward panels back up, restored, and take his fast-load Pl-Fs while continuing to fire with reloaded TRHs. Just use lot's of H&R raids to kill his phasers on the turn before deactivating the forward panels, or you'll get slammed.
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