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After the 3rd FCOL Tournament or What's Next?

 
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 756
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:31 am    Post subject: After the 3rd FCOL Tournament or What's Next? Reply with quote

The 3rd FC Online Tournament will be completed in nine days.

After its completion I will provide the stats on its outcome along with comprhensive stats for the three completed tournaments.

I do not propose to start a new FC Online tournament until January 1st. In my opinion the November and December holidays make starting one before then impractical. Moreover, I would like to have some time to better publicize the next tournament in order to try to get some new blood into the next tournament. Finally, I would like to move to a two tournament a year format -- Winter (January until its completed with one month rounds) and Summer (July until its completion with one month rounds). In the meantime, I think we have each now met enough online opponents such that we can each schedule our own non-tournament FCOL games to the extent we desire in November and December.

The next question is in regard to what format the Winter 2012 FCOL Tournament should take on. I would eventually like to see a scenario-based tournament (which I ideally envision as an ASL-like tournanent where scenarios are based on a "historic" event and players must choose from the specified opposing squadrons and empires for that scenario), but I don't think we are quite there yet. We will need an update from Eric and Scott in that regard (Eric had a concept for slightly different type of scenario-based tournament).

My default proposal for a Winter 2012 FC Online Tournament is as follows:

1) Use the current format with only very minor tweaks.

2) See if we can finally get the ISC and Vudar ships into the client and fully working prior to the tournament's start.

3) Supplement the FC Online library for the other empires already working in the client to better fill out the fleets of the empires in most need of help and to add variety through the addition of more of the e23 ships (within the bounds of the Reference Rulebook (e.g., no Axion torpedoes or FRAX subs)) that are not on laminated cards.

The current format has worked well in terms of providing a good variety of opponents and empire matchups. While the scenario is always the same, each encounter is a bit different and adding the ISC and Vudar into the mix would spice things up further.

Again, this is my default proposal that I intend to move forwrd with unless somebody is ready to step forward with something they commit to putting in place prior to January 1st.

Thanks,

Jim
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Jim Dauphinais, Chesterfield, MO

St. Louis Area Fed Comm Group: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/STL_Federation_Commander/
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Brazouck
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems good, I will be in.

In fact I love ASL !
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ericphillips
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Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to do something more scenario based, but I don't have the time.

For me the 450 point thing is getting a little staid. Might I suggest an alternate point value, either of two ways:

1. A different point value for the entire tournament, with ships chosen before the first round, as usual, or...

2. Each round has a different point value max and way to choose ships (such as 150 points, no two the same, or 300 points, no individual ship with a PV higher than 115). The PV is announced a week before the round begins, and everyone sends their selections in and the matchup is revealed blind from each other.

Number 2 sounds like a hoot.
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1843

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite like the idea of each player choosing a normal legal tourney force. Except that the fleet you choose will be the fleet your opponents will play with.

1) You will always know what you will be facing, but not what you will have to deal with it.

2) You may well be flying a different empire each round.

3) You will be trying to think of the worst fleet to give an opponent, so there will be more emphasis on the not so good ships, which may make for more tactically interesting games with poor power and weapon suites. No more Fed NCAs, try Old Light Cruisers instead!


Last edited by storeylf on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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ericphillips
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Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 702
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA, Sol, Gould Belt, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Universe Beta

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pick the other fleet!

LOL, that would be fun!
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JimDauphinais
Commander


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 756
Location: Chesterfield, MO

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee -- It's kind of twisted, but I like it.

(I'm not sure the American expression "twisted" will translate over the pond very well.)
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1379

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee, Fed OCL is a nice ship!! A little undergunned but excellent phasers.

The Kzinti CL on the other hand...

How many Romulan Police Snipes fit in a tourney force...? Smile

Edit: Or a pirate force with ADDs in all option mounts. Hee hee. Laughing
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1843

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryoc wrote:
Lee, Fed OCL is a nice ship!! A little undergunned but excellent phasers.

The Kzinti CL on the other hand...

How many Romulan Police Snipes fit in a tourney force...? Smile

Edit: Or a pirate force with ADDs in all option mounts. Hee hee. Laughing


The OCL isn't a bad ship per se, but it is hardly the sort of ship you'd bring to a tourney which is what I was trying to get at (current tourney format is all about max photons).

You can fit 2 snipes in a fleet (is there a laminited police snipe though?). Remember no more than 2 of any ship in a legal force.

There might need to be some extra rule about orions, maybe not giving them any weapons that cost less than 0 points, in order to prevent overly abusive gimping your opponent. There might also need to be some restriction on ship types (e.g. no LTTs, or Commando ships or whatever)

Remember you still have to spend 425-450 points on 3 or 4 ships, so you can't get away with all frigates or anything.

It may need a bit more thought, but I was trying to think of a simple of way of having games with 'inferior' ships, as the inferior ships are usually more interesting. I also like the idea of playing different empires each round, rather than just showing how good you are with the single best overpowered squadron you can think of.


Off the top of my head (I dare say there are 'better' fleets to gift an opponent)

Fed: OCL, OCL, BCJ

It has only an 8 photons volley, as opposed to the 12-14 photons a more typical Fed force has. Still nasty on the Ph1s though.

Klingon: D6, D6, E4, D5D

A few drones, but poor direct firepower and no wide arcs of the D5s.

Of course it is quite likely that plasma fleets will suddenly be very popular if people think it is that bad!

Reversing Jims point adjustment could be used to encourage a wider selection of empires if it is likely everyone will choose the same 'hopeless' empire.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously... it sounds like fun. BCJ would be an interesting choice for your opponent to have, it is IMO rather overpriced. Or the FJ Dreadnought.

I think you will see fewer of some empires. There are no bad ISC ships IMO, same with Frax. Plasma vs plasma could be interesting. I mean, if BOTH of you are playing plasma squadrons, it should even out, n'est-ce pas? Seltorians and Tholians are both rather weak overall. Of course, Selts pwn Tholians.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you wanted to really mix things up, mixed squadrons with no two ships from the same empire.

Or "Enemy Mine"... half your points spent on ships from one empire, half from an opposing empire e.g. Kzinti/Klingon, Lyran/Hydran, Fed/Klingon, Seltorian/Tholian.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1843

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryoc wrote:

I think you will see fewer of some empires. There are no bad ISC ships IMO, same with Frax. Plasma vs plasma could be interesting. I mean, if BOTH of you are playing plasma squadrons, it should even out, n'est-ce pas? Seltorians and Tholians are both rather weak overall. Of course, Selts pwn Tholians.


ISC depends on your view on plasma - CL, CL, FF, FF has only 4 S and 4 F as its heavy weapons, plus 2 ships with rear firing F. It isn't that good a fleet if you think plasma is crap. On the other hand 20 ph1s may be pretty brutal against the weaker fleets you would likely face.

Selts might be quite good, they probably won't be facing all conquering uber crunch squadrons so their weaker heavy weaponary (and good ph1s) is likely not such a problem, and large marine/transporter complement is potentially very usfeul. Like ISC they don't have many ships to choose from either, so its hard to badly nerf them relatively speaking.

Tholians could be the poor boy on the block if they don't get a web caster ship, and who would give them one given a choice Smile.

As to the fewer empires, that is a problem at the moment, hence Jims point adjustment. A similar reversed adjustment could help solve that problem as well. If Tholians are seen as the hopeless empire that everyone chooses to give their opponent then making their ships cheaper means they have to get more/better ships to come within the point limit, and hence less hopeless.
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gar1138
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Eugene, OR

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think picking a blah fleet for your opponent to use sounds really cool. Obviously, there would have to be some rules and guidelines to prevent abuse (maybe fully ban Orions and possibly Tholians?), but it could be really fun to have to fly different fleets each game, think on the fly, etc. I also really like that other types of ships would end up being used, rather than the top of the line models that usually get picked for tourneys.

Garrett
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Zyffyr
Ensign


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To make Orions workable :
No negative value option weapons can be preassigned.
Controlling player can swap out the options.

Essentially, the person fighting against Orions gets to pick the hulls, but not the loadout.
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JimDauphinais
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Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Agree -- The opponent picks the Orion and Wyn loadouts. I would not disallow negative or positive cost loadouts on a weapon by weapon basis, but the net cost for the loadouts for each ship must be zero. I don't particularly think anything special needs to be done for the Tholians other than allowing the opponent to choose Photons or Disruptors when there is a choice.
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1843

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgetting whose fleet you choose, I'd also suggest for the next online tourney giving considertaion to using a 99*99 map, and starting at 26 hexes away from each other (around the middle).

Paul and myself have started experimenting with a 99*99 map and whilst we haven't managed to get in many games yet, it already feels better to me so far. It still has the map edges for short range empires to catch some one against, whilst being big enough to provide time and room for others to wear down such empires. The 26 starting range ensures that sitting still on turn 1 (which is seen as 'cheesy' by some) is risky tactic.
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