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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 785
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acceleration and Deceleration can affect who controls movement while tractored (by changing who has the most energy involved) ---

If Stopped (versus Speed 0) was implemented (Stopped ships not being able to Acc/Dec), would disallow the ship with less energy any attempt at affecting who moves --

Though Stopped could be stated without the penalties in this case, but it just adds to the amount of rules ---

Just an instance of how a minor change in one area affects others ----
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1842

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ship with less energy cannot affect who moves using accel. Energy is determined only by reference to energy spent on base speed at the point of tractoring.

If I remember correctly, accel only comes into the equation if both ships had the same energy at the point of tractor and therefore you are in a static situation. Then you can use accel on each impuse to try and gain temporary control
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not following you here.

First, there is not "rule change" here. The rule specifically states that "[t]he engines of the other ship [i.e. the one not controlling movement] have no effect and that ship simply follows along with the moving ship." OK, granted it should probably state that it is considered to be at Speed 0, but it should be very clear that it isn't moving at all.

Second, acceleration and deceleration are irrelevant to the whole equation of determining who is controlling movement of the tractored pair. When the energy spent on movement is compared, only the energy spent for baseline speed is what is compared. Any energy spent on acceleration and deceleration is ignored.

The only time acceleration and deceleration play a role is in a "static situation", where both ships spent the same amount of energy for baseline speed. And in that situation, it is not an issue of "who has the most energy involved". There is no accumulation of energy, or anything like that, in the static situation. Rather, it is an impulse-by-impulse comparison of who is acceleration and decelerating, and who is not.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
I am not following you here.

First, there is not "rule change" here. The rule specifically states that "[t]he engines of the other ship [i.e. the one not controlling movement] have no effect and that ship simply follows along with the moving ship." OK, granted it should probably state that it is considered to be at Speed 0, but it should be very clear that it isn't moving at all.


I assume you are referring to Bolo when you say 'you', rather than my immediately preceding post. I'm certainly only seeing it as a clarification and not a new rule.

I suppose that is the problem with rules written in a very loose 'conversational' format, they can get rather vague and open to interpretation.

Rules saying 'engines have no effect and the ship simply moving along with the other ship' is really not the same as saying the base speed has changed. The only thing that seems to fall out of that sentence is a description of how it moves on the map, and even then it just seems extraneous fluff, not a rule about its base speed. The ship could also be seen as having the base speed of the ship it moves along with. Or like black holes pulling ships, as having no effect as it is presumably doesn't simply stop its engines whilst tractored but is still running them at the inital rating as it tries (hoplessly) to get away.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ie Rule Change statement ---
Was reading, Ship with more energy moves:
And even with 3 readings, the lose a movement factor bit just didn't register for some reason, Sad
took it as the first as possibly superceding the second ---

Acceleration comment should have stated "for that impulse" could change the energy used --- proofreading our own statements doesn't always work ---
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mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3471
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
I assume you are referring to Bolo when you say 'you', rather than my immediately preceding post. I'm certainly only seeing it as a clarification and not a new rule.

Yes. You just got your response in faster than I did.
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