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Photon Torpedo question

 
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Aabh
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 134
Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:22 am    Post subject: Photon Torpedo question Reply with quote

Okay, had a great game today with two of my friends. We were playing "Protect the Freighters" (We are still very green at the game as of yet, so nothing complicated Very Happy).

Two of us were Federation, a FF, DDW and a NCA protecting 3 frieghters

The opposing team was two Lyran BCH's (It was a 200 point game)

Now we (The Feds) pretty much ganged up on one of the BCH's with all of our photons overloaded (We traveled all the way across the map, so we had GOBS of time), and the NCA and the FF managed to Alpha Strike as well at pretty much 1 hex (The FF was actually in the SAME hex).

It completely blew up the BCH, naturally.

But he cried foul when the torps were launched, saying they were WAY over powered (Part of it was that we had three ships launching all tubes (5 tubes, we were playing fleet scale), and all of them were at point blank range which meant they all hit, and were all overloaded to +8...)

So, just to make sure we are all correct:

5 photon torpedoes at either 0 or 1 hex. All overloaded to +8 deals 80 points of damage, right?

The other check is: It takes two turns to get these weapons there, right? Turn one to load them, and on turn two, they can fire overloaded if we so desire (And have the power available) So turn one they can't fire, on turn two they deal 80 points (Again, provided we had the power to overload), correct?

The reason I ask is that the Lyran player felt the the Photons were markedly more powerful than his ESG was doing. My counter argument is that this game is 30 years old, I think the balance is correct. So, what is the counter balancing that doesn't make everyone think they need to play Federation ships because of the powerful Photorps?
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Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 785
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your data is correct:

The way you state it, you exchanged fire on Turn 2????

If so, my question is, to how did the Lyran manage to allow the Fed
ships into that position in the first place ---

Yes, the Photons are that strong, if you allow them to get close enough where the odds of hitting are that good ---

The problem isn't the strength of the photons, but the inexperience of someone getting into that position --
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark is correct. Photons are quite powerful... when they connect.

But think what would have happened if you'd been forced to fire at range 4 and missed with all of them. The Lyrans would have received no damage and the Federation would not be able to fire again for another two turns.

It's truly not a case of photons being all powerful, but a case of learning to prevent them from ever reaching range 1 in the first place.
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Blammo
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Mar 2011
Posts: 170
Location: Barnesville, GA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what was stated before. All of your information and understanding of the rules it correct. The problem was the Lyran player allowing you to get that close with all ships off of the same shield and with overloaded Photons.

By the way, so it isn't lost, good work on your behalf getting in there and blasting that BCH into scrap!
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Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1950
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye. If he's sore that he didn't manage to set up an ESG ram without you being able to answer in kind, then he should have got in behind you.

He has nobody but himself to blame. Well done Smile

<thinking: good job it's only a game Wink>
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djdood
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2922
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed. You're going to find just as many people complaining that they can never get a chance to deliver such a crushing blow with photons, because their opponent won't sit still directly in front of their Fed ships.

Well flown "saber-dancing" Klingons, etc. make a Feds life very hard. Klingons flown like a TNG tv show berzerker Klingon get blown up real good.

In the few games I've played against Lyrans (almost all with me as Feds), I've lost, every time. ESGs seem "overpowered", when your opponent knows how to play them (and you) and you get rammed with them at full-strength. It's not the ESG, it's that my opponent knew his ships, knew mine (better than me), and suckered me in five different ways. It sucks to lose, but it's a learning experience each time.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The game isn't 30 years old though, SFB maybe that old but FC is not. Enough changed between the 2 games that their are some things that affect balance, e.g. the extra spare power that ships have in FC is a big benefit to the Feds who would other wise struggle to move fast and use full overloads, whilst others benefit from extra power the Feds are arguably the big winner from that change.

Feds are one of the most powerful empires if the map is small enough. Unless the map is of sufficient size then you can pretty much guarantee that you will catch someone at close range quickly enough to win the game.

Well played Lyrans are also pretty potent though.
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Scoutdad
Commodore


Joined: 09 Oct 2006
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Location: Middle Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
Well played Lyrans are also pretty potent though


And poorly played Lyrans suck.
Just read Patrick's Command at Origins article in the forthcoming CL 43.
I was his first match-up and through poor tactical manuevering, was unable to perform the ESG ram on his Kzinti... followed by him hitting with everything and me missing with practically everything.
End result: I surrendered after Turn #1.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as the online tourneys keep showing, Feds are top notch if you know what you are doing, but really bad if you don't.
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JonPerry
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So turn one they can't fire, on turn two they deal 80 points (Again, provided we had the power to overload), correct?


Not quite correct. At the cost of battery power, you are allowed to start the game with that first turn of photon arming already paid for. So your fleet scale NCA would not have its battery power available, but would have those first two points of power in each of the two tubes before the game begins. This is representing power going into the tubes on a hypothetical turn zero.

This means that on turn one you can put the remaining two points of power in each of the two tubes - finishing their loading cycle - and fire them impulse one of turn one. Not that Feds usually want to engage the opponent on the first turn - but it is an option.

If you chose not to use the battery power to pre-load that first bit of power, then yes you are correct.
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Aabh
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Joined: 27 Aug 2011
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Location: Arvada, Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all! Smile

And to be clear, we actually didn't fire until turn 8, but I didn't want to confuse things (because I was unclear of the timing issue), I wanted to make sure that all events from the declaration of loading to firing an overloaded torp was two turns... I figured if I talked about turn 2 for loading and turn 8 for firing, I might not be able to convey my concern.

You also answered the most important question, though: That is that there is a lot to learn for my friend the Lyran player. But the most important thing is that he has to keep the Federation ships at arms length. His ESG DID do a lot of damage, though! Very Happy

And thank you for the kudos for the downing of the BCH! Very Happy Of course, his BCH traveled in a pack, and his partner didn't do the smaller ships any good, we got out with one (of three) freighters and a very singed NCA. Very Happy
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Dal Downing
Commander


Joined: 06 May 2008
Posts: 552
Location: Western Wisconsin

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the most common Nick names for the photon is "The Wonder Weapon". As you found out a close range they are killers but, the more the range opens up the more you find yourself wondering if the will hit when you roll the dice. And by some miracle they all hit now your left wondering where your opponents ship went.
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kirbykibble
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do have some concerns.
first, did you automatically arm your photons at the beginning of the game?
also, did you travel across the map at the beginning of the game.
even more, did you travel to the BCH's in one turn? or multiple turns?
the speed is also needed.
the only way you could have mis-interpretated is
you travelled at the BCH's at speed 24
you also fired phasers.
(possibly armed photons at the same turn)
Then power would be an issue
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