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Troubles with saber dance execution.

 
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Kingmaker
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Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Troubles with saber dance execution. Reply with quote

Hello forum! I'm a brand new federation commander player who has a quick question. My friends and I have tried the "duel" scenario with the classic Klingon D7 and the Federation CA.

Now I know the appropriate strategy for the Klingon in this situation is to saber dance, keep the range at approximately 15, and keep out of 9 range until you've done some serious shield damage to the fed.

The problem we've been seeing is after the Klingon makes the initial oblique approach, fires, and then turns away what simply stops the federation player from dumping his power into engines and basically matching your speed? We used a floating map but it seemed like if the Klingon turned, the federation player would naturally be able to close the distance.

Any tips for how the Klingon player can make more than a single pass?

Thanks!
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storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1831

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that scenario you have to see what the fed is doing with photons, if he holds overloads then he lacks the power to keep up and you have a few extra moves each turn, plus your couple of drones can sometimes cost him a hex or 2, so every now and again you will get to turn back in, fire and turn away without getting into range 8.

If he doesn't overload then he can't keep up AND fire phasers, whilst you can max you speed and plink him with your phasers, which can fire backwards and over the shoulder.
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Kingmaker
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Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much, I think one of the problems maybe because we're just running the training scenario right now drones don't enter into the equation. We're introducing them along with high energy turns, tractors, and marines next game.
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Mike
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Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1526
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sabre dance stuff is difficult to pull off in the beginning. One other strategy you can try is to fly past him, but a few hexes away, then turn and use your superior turn mode to get behind him. Perhaps not directly behind, but off his #3 or #5. Watch out for his high energy turn though.
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duxvolantis
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Troubles with saber dance execution. Reply with quote

Kingmaker wrote:
Hello forum! I'm a brand new federation commander player who has a quick question. My friends and I have tried the "duel" scenario with the classic Klingon D7 and the Federation CA.

Now I know the appropriate strategy for the Klingon in this situation is to saber dance, keep the range at approximately 15, and keep out of 9 range until you've done some serious shield damage to the fed.

The problem we've been seeing is after the Klingon makes the initial oblique approach, fires, and then turns away what simply stops the federation player from dumping his power into engines and basically matching your speed? We used a floating map but it seemed like if the Klingon turned, the federation player would naturally be able to close the distance.

Any tips for how the Klingon player can make more than a single pass?

Thanks!

Practice maneuvering. You are always going to be going speed 24 for the sabre dance with around 4 points for acceleration. It is tricky to pull off on a closed map for very long.

Focus on his #1 shield whenever possible. It greatly complicates his ability to chase and to close with you.

Approach across the map diagonally, but when running don't just head back to your corner--if you run along a edge you have created more open map that could be potentially useful next turn or--very important--after a closer pass is made.

Once the range gets tight, you can also try the "shallow sabre dance" which involves ducking into range 8. This is high risk but can reap rewards if you entice him to fire his photons and he rolls average or badly. He will either take the shot and basically gamble the battle on 4 dice or he will hold onto his torps and

Don't neglect Evasive Maneuvers. Photons are pretty hopeless with a -2 shift and you can easily go 24+1 a whole turn under evasive. If you do this, don't run away unless he plotted 16. With evasive you can probably get as close as range 4 without running too high of a risk of being hurt badly which can let you underrun him and possibly force him to either make a big sweeping turn ( which opens the distance ) or burn his HET which may be useful down the road.

The key to playing a Fed is that if he rolls 4 hits he's going to win the fight. Just accept that and play so that you either force him to choose between continuing to accept shield damage or settling for a bad shot (range 6+). If he rolls 4 1's shake his hand and play again. If he doesn't, crawl on top of him and stay there!

No matter how bad it might initially look, after he fires his photons turn a fresh shield (you did preserve your #1, right) and close to knife-fight range and stay there. If he hurt you really bad, you won't escape anyway. But if he only hit with 2 photons+phasers or 3 photons without phasers you will be in fine fighting shape and he will not be able to fire photons again for at least 9 impulses. And you have a big advantage in a knife fight after the first volley of photons are fired. Your disruptors can be fire immediately after repair whereas his photons must be repaired and then armed for 2 turns to fire. You have more drones which at least make his life more interesting and soak some power but if he doesn't pay attention you can often score a drone hit or two at close range when you get to the part where both ships have take a lot of internals.. You have more phasers which lets you take preserve your phaser firepower longer and you have more transporters for hit-and-run raids.
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Klingon of Gor
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, you can make more than one firing pass, just not with disruptors. You can still use you phaser 1s, and some of your phaser 2s, while facing away from the Fed. Granted, you can't do much damage, but unless he slows down, neither can he do much in the way of sheild repairs. You are talking here about a LONG game potentially, but you can actually wear his sheilds down with phasers over time. He has a harder time doing this, given your drone advantage. You don't have a lot in the way of batteries, but you have more power to soak damage than he does.

No, you really can't make more than one pass with your disruptors unless you have a war cruiser with expanded disruptor arcs. At least not as long as he can plot speed 24. You can buy more acceleration than he can, and may have to, because in some cases there may be no other way to open the range.

The last game that I played that involved Klingons vs Feds was a duel between a D6 and a 129 point CA. The D6 could stay outside range 8 easily enough, which denied the Feds the ability to do decisive damage to the D6, but it also meant that the D6 really couldn't hit the Feds with much besides a few phaser 2s while playing keep away.

Remember that the Feds can still tag you pretty badly out to range 12. He could fire three photon torpedoes, and expect to hit with one. (Keeping an overload in reserve to discourage you from overrunning him.) Over time, this can add up. SO even if you manage to stay outside range 8, you are still vulnerable.

duxvolantis wrote:

Quote:
The key to playing a Fed is that if he rolls 4 hits he's going to win the fight. Just accept that and play so that you either force him to choose between continuing to accept shield damage or settling for a bad shot (range 6+). If he rolls 4 1's shake his hand and play again. If he doesn't, crawl on top of him and stay there!


A lot of what happens in any game involving the Feds will come down to what happens with that first photon torpedo volley. Feds are a bit like Dirty Harry brandishing his .44 magnum and asking "Do ya feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?" And his weapon may well blow your head clean off, or it may simply amount to the click of a hammer on an empty chamber. They have the best heavy weapon in game, but they are luck dependent, and if you fight them, so must you be.
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duxvolantis
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klingon of Gor wrote:

No, you really can't make more than one pass with your disruptors unless you have a war cruiser with expanded disruptor arcs.

I always recommend that new Klingon players learn in the D7 before going to the D5.

1) It's a little more durable which makes it a little more forgiving if you make a mistake.

2) Sabre dancing in a D5 is too easy. If you learn to sabre dance in a D7 then you will really become good at it. You won't have the luxury of those fantastic arcs in every battle and learning the hard way will pay off in the long run.
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Dux Volantis
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