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Klingon Invasion?
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After thinking about this for a while, and drawing a few rough sketches on paper while waiting for a doctor's appointment, I figured that if the first six panels made up the Eastern Theatre circa Y168 on the 'F&E' side, and the Central Front of Y171 on the 1" side, and the follow-on maps in the Romulan box mirrored this, you would need twelve 1" panels to complete a map of the entire Octant.

So, the remaining twelve could be packaged in supplements like so:

Lyran-Hydran supplement - 3 panels

1" side - Lyran Empire, Hydran Kingdom
F&E side - the 3 RTN routes leading to the LMC

Late War book (Seltorians, X-ships etc) - 3 panels

1" side - the western parts of Klingon and Kzinti territory
F&E side - the Y185 borders in the western theatre (showing the hex supplying the Hive Ship, as well as Vudar space)

Depending on how the map is laid out the WYN Cluster and LDR could end up on either set.

ISC + Andro book - 6 panels

1" side - The Interstellar Concordium, eastern Romulan and Gorn space
F&E side - a map of the LMC (with a small 'province' off to the corner, beyond the Neutral Worlds, indicating M31, for Andro players to work out RTN-based reinforcements from the home galaxy)


Gary
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Due to the way Php runs, and the fact that this board uses screennames instead of real names, we don't do "product development" here which means it's kind of pointless to post endless suggestions. We don't read them because we can't use them because they're not attributable.

There is no firm date for "invasion" but it won't be in 2007, maybe not 2008. I want to get FC "complete" (not the same as finished) before we do invasion.

There is zero work done on Invasion. Other than "simpler strategic game" that's about it. We might use a system like axis and allies, or any of several others. We might use "provinces" or we might not. I would say we would limit the number of ship types and classes and eliminate (from F&E) any number of special funky rules. But I'm just guessing. At a guess, I'll actually start working on Invasion on the drive home from Origins 2008, but don't quote me on that and it's not a promise.
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Vanessa
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
I'll actually start working on Invasion on the drive home from Origins 2008, but don't quote me on that and it's not a promise.
Laughing And I'm not putting it on the schedule.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I re-posted the comments over at the discus boards, in a pre-existing thread from a few years back.

Would it be better to leave the suggestions there, or start a new thread at the F&E boards with ideas for the Invasion sets? Even if it's not going to be looked at for a while, it would be somewhere to focus ideas for the future system (and in case anyone forgets a good idea they have now when the time actally comes to get the ball rolling...)

Again, I stress that the point is not to try and force the issue at all - merely to have something aside ready to pick up when the time comes (even if you don't like any of the ideas included!)


Gary
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think Steve is trying to say that this is all wasted effort.

Nothing said now will really have any influence on the thought processes Steve will have to go through when he is able to focus on it. All discussions, "decisions", or concensus reached prior to then is irrelevant and will all have to start again from scratch when the time comes.

There are many things in the SFU that are active right now that input can have influence on. This is not one of them.

This doesn't even touch on the problems of perception. If there is a long, continuous discussion on this potential game, and others see it, it will set certain expectations in the marketplace (good or bad) that Steve will only have to overcome when the game does eventually get designed and made.

That all said, discussions (on discus) about what is wanted from such a game is probably not unreasonable. But trying to make any kind of design suggestions or decisions is just wasted effort.

Again, please don't take this the wrong way. I was in a very similar situation with Early Years for SFB, and some of my over-enthusiastic efforts actually hurt ADB's efforts, and undermined the goal I wanted to see (Module Y1 published).
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are simply not enough hours in the day for me to read, analyze, and respond to every single suggestion, question, or request on every possible future product. When it is time (marketwise) for a new game engine, we may well do Invasion. When we do Invasion, I will start from a very big and very blank sheet of paper and try to envision what I want the game to accomplish. I will look into production systems to see if we could do it with plastic-metal-cardboard pieces. I will decide where I want the rules to settle (regarding complexity, playability, and realism). Then I will do a draft of the rules. THEN will I consider comments, including comments made earlier and comments made later. But basically, I simply don't have time to even read comments on what Invasion might be, let alone think about them. And if I did read them and think about them, the market forces in the next year or two might demand a very different game. So it would be a waste of time for me to read and analyze and respond now, so it's kind of a waste of time to send suggestions now. They won't get read. (I simply do not have time; I have things that are on the schedule for 60 days from now that I haven't done yet!) Worse, they may convince people that Invasion will or will not cover this or that, and when I do design and publish Invasion, I will have to fight against this deeply entrenched information (even though it was never anything but speculation by someone who knew nothing about what I was actually doing).

Just to give one example. A week or so ago I got a very confusing call from a somewhat upset wholesaler. They wanted to know how come they had never been told about a particular new product. Turns out, I had never heard of this product either. Tracking it back to the retailer it came from, it turns out that somebody reading one of the boards noticed a "suggestion" by Gary Neroth about how a product not on the schedule could be done. He (without Gary being involved) mentioned it to a friend, who mentioned on another forum, where it was read by another unrelated gamer, who went to his store and tried to BUY the "product". The store manager had never heard of the product and was upset it was not listed in Games Quarterly Catalog. The store manager called his wholesaler and demanded to know why this product had not been announced. The wholesaler called me and was pretty upset. and of course, the discovery by the wholesaler, the retailer, and the individual who walked into the store that there was no such product on the schedule (let alone one that had been published) upset the wholesaler, the retailer, and the individual gamer, both because their time had been wasted, and because they had gotten all fired up about a cool new product that never in fact existed. Now, I'm not ragging on Gary, who never said it was anything other than something he wanted, and never hinted that it was something we were doing.

So please remember that anything any of us (including me) posts on this or any other forum can and will be misinterpreted by somebody else. There's nothing you can do about that (other than not discussing new proucts at all!) and disclaimers don't always help.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to re-state in as clear a means as I can that the ideas I posted in this thread are just that, my own ideas for what I'd like to see in a possible future game. Sorry if anyone got too excited about it.

Looks like I should stick to the discus board for this sort of stuff from now on...

(The above ideas are in the thread I linked to in a previous post, in any event.)


Gary
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John Carter
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to bring it up, I had just heard rumours and was curious...

No matter when you'll start working on it, I'm looking forward to it.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is always good to know that people are waiting for a new game. (Although, as the game hasn't been designed, everybody waiting for the game assumes it will be something he is waiting for, and not all of them will be right.) It never hurts to ask. It only hurts when people start asking stores for something not even on the schedule.

Now, if you went to your store now and said "Tholian Attack is coming in February and I want to be sure you're going to stock it" then THAT would be tres kewell. Tholian attack is already in the "upcoming" sections of the wholesaler catalogs, and the store can place a pre-order any day that their wholesaler is open.
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