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Kingmaker Ensign
Joined: 29 Dec 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Edmonton
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:13 am Post subject: The Doomsday machine. |
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Relatively new player here. Today we played the doomsday machine scenario three players. We played it Doomsday machine vs 350 points in Klinks, 1 D7, 1 D6, and 1 F5 at squadron scale made it a perfect match.
The doomsday machine player got worked. We essentially crippled him on turn two. Our approach was to begin our attack run from range 19, where his phaser 4's did poor damage, and then rush to point blank for overload shots.
Anyway, long story short, he panicked, fired his phaser 4's way too early, and we walked up to him and pounded down his front shield with 10 overloaded disruptors and phasered the crap out of him. We didn't even bother doing the marine hit and runs, because he had conceded the game as we'd stripped him of his phasers.
Anyway, I figure that he could have easily destroyed the F5 if he'd fired at it at about range 5, but I'm not sure he would have been able to prevent us from crippling him. Is 350 points maybe too much for the Doomsday machine to face? Does anybody have any tips for the machine player?
Thanks! |
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Klingon of Gor Lieutenant SG
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 150
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I'd be wasting shots on the F5. You need to reduce the damage the enemy can inflict. (This applies to anyone, anywhere, anytime, not just the Doomsday Machine.) That D7 would get my concentrated attention. The danger is that they may spilt up, and come at you from the front and the rear. You only get one HET, and don't turn all that well otherwise. You can sort of duplicate the outcome of the TV show. Two ships attack, one gets arc welded, the other hangs on the Doomsday Machine's six and fires overloads until the Machine stops twitching.
A lot of monster scenarios seem to be balanced more for Feds. We played the Death probe scenario several times, with Probe vs Feds and Probe vs Klingons. With probe vs Feds, it was a close game and went down to the wire, with the outcome in doubt until the last die roll of the last volley, fired by practically the last ship the Feds had left. With probe vs Kilngons, it wasn't even a contest. The Klingons shot the probe to pieces, got barely a scratch on the paint work, and then it was Miller time. (Or the Klingon equivalent.) The issue seems to be that disruptors can fire every turn, while photons are a two turn arming weapon, and the disruptor are more likely to hit, especially at range. Disruptor armed ships can put more damage points per turn on a target than photon armed ships at certain ranges. This was fatal to the Death Probe, and may be to the Doomsday Machine as well, though I never played it against Klingons. _________________ "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K Dick |
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Bolo_MK_XL Captain
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007 Posts: 836 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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At least in Star Fleet Commander you had to shove a Crusier class ship down its throat to kill it --- made it more realistic to the show --- |
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Klingon of Gor Lieutenant SG
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 150
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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One more thing. Remember that the Planet Killer has no overloadable weapons, so you always want directed damage. With Klinks, I'd go for their weapons. They're a bit overpowered, and have the option of slowing down to Speed 16 to overload everything. They've got some redundant weapons, ADD racks, some phaser 2s and 3s they can take, but losing disruptors will definitely throw a monkey wrench in their plan. _________________ "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K Dick |
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terryoc Captain
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006 Posts: 1386
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: |
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The Bugle of Doom's tractor beams have a range of 3. If it can grab a ship it can hold it in place for next turn's phaser fire. And the Cornucopia of Ka-Boom doesn't have to panic and fire too early, you always have the option to "me-too" fire like any other ship.
In any case, I think the recommended force for that scenario is a bit high to be balanced, it's a good teaching scenario though. The teacher takes the monster and the students take the ships. _________________ "Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West
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Kingmaker Ensign
Joined: 29 Dec 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Edmonton
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I think the theory around him targeting the F5 was that it was the most fragile and you could easily destroy it to remove a couple of disruptors and phasers from play. I thought accepted thinking was usually to pop small ships before moving on to the more durable ones. |
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Klingon of Gor Lieutenant SG
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 150
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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You need to reduce the damage the enemy can inflict. That may or may not mean going after the small ship. Getting the D6 or the D7 is 40% of his disruptors. And the Carrot of Doom has enough firepower to get serious internals on those ships. Leaving the heavier ships alone may ive them more opportunity to damage you, and perhaps reduce the damage you can inflict by taking out your weapons.
Let's rewrite the script a little bit. Assume two Fed ships, a BC and a CA, NCA, CS, or NCL. All of these ships have four photon torpedoes. In such a case, you might decide to target the smaller ship, since you're getting four photons either way. But in the scenario you played, the F5 just doesn't have the heavy weapons and phaser firepower of the other two ships, and its disruptors are limited to range 15. The other two ships are much more rewarding (And dangerous) targets. THe advice to target the smaller ship is morelikely to apply to Feds, because an awful lot of their ships carry four photons, and their small ships carry photons just as powerful and deadly as those on a DN. With, say, plasma chuckers, their light ships carry F torps, maybe in some cases a G, but not an S or R.
Kzinti frequently mount four drone racks on their ships, even the small ones, so taking out a frigate reduces the drone threat as much as taking out a BC.
The point of all this is that sometimes it's a good idea to target the small ship, and sometimes it isn't.
I discussed this thread with a friend, who pointed out that the D6 and D7 both have four disruptors, but the D6 has fewer internals, and will be destroyed more easily.
Were I fighting Feds, I might be tempted to go for directed damage power systems, as the Feds don't have a lot of power to spare, and photons are power hungry. Plus, if I can drop their speed, I might be able to tractor them. _________________ "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K Dick |
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Kang Fleet Captain
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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You may need to house-rule a better value for the PK's top speed when you are playing against plasma chuckers. _________________
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jmt Lieutenant Commander
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 394 Location: Plano, TX
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Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Klingon of Gor has it right - while an F5 is an easy squish, its not the threat the D6 or D7 is. The D6 is more fragile than the D7 but has the same heavy weapons load out, so by these numbers, the D6 should go first.
The other thing to consider is the number of drones out there. No, the Klingons aren't as good at chucking them as the Kzin, but putting up 8-12 drones will divert the Bugle of Death's phasers and thus dilute what can be brought to bear on the ships. Killing the D6 early reduces the throw weight of the Klingon fleet. _________________ jmt
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pinecone Fleet Captain
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Joined: 03 May 2008 Posts: 1862 Location: Earth
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I definitely agree with jmt. The D6 has to be the first target, no question. Then you can quash the F5 and leave only one ship (so that he cannot outmanuever you) |
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zebulon8 Ensign
Joined: 16 Oct 2014 Posts: 8 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I recently ran the exact same setup (3 players, PK vs D7,D6 & F5), with radically different results: The PK gutted each of the ships, in turn, while only taking a handful of internals.
I think the klingons made a mistake by firing too early (it was their first game of FC, so we can forgive them. I was the "expert", having played twice before, so they let me be the PK).
I am curious, though, about Kingmaker's proposed overrun strategy. If both sides were disciplined, would it work?
You have to do a LOT of damage to the doomsday machine before to score your first internal (20 shields + 68 armor + 8 batteries for shield reinforcement = 96 points!).
The K's have 10 disruptors, 5 Ph-1s, and 9 Ph-2s that could all be fired in a single impulse at the PK.
Assuming average rolls firing all these weapons, they would have to get really close to score their first internal. Range 4 would not do it (81 pts damage on average). They would have to get to at least range 3 (106 pts).
Unfortunately, this is the start of the best range for the Ph-4s. Assuming average rolls for the PK, this would mean 73 pts damage back, which would pretty much cripple the D6.
Also, at range 3, the F5 would be tractor bait and would not likely survive the next round.
So the question is: Is it worth it? |
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Kang Fleet Captain
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:46 am Post subject: |
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You can also hit-and-run his phaser-4's..... _________________
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zebulon8 Ensign
Joined: 16 Oct 2014 Posts: 8 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | You can also hit-and-run his phaser-4's..... |
When I was first looking at the scenario, I assumed Hit and Run would be a big part of taking down the PK.
Depending upon how movement fell relative to impulse boundaries, it could be interesting to end an impulse at range 5, fire enough weapons to take down a PK shield and send over as many boarding parties as you could to take out the Ph-4s.
This would force the PK to fire some of its strength early and blunt its counter strike.
The K's would have to work around down shields as they closed, or dump all their weapons and turn off completely, but this is getting away from the overrun strategy. |
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