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Can you target your own drones with a drone
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ncrcalamine
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you

Just to be clear. If you target a tractored drone held by the enemy, and the second drone hits the tractored drone, there is no defensive fire because the target was the drone and not the ship. The ship or it's shields then take 24 points of drone damage.

Nicole
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncrcalamine wrote:
Just to be clear. If you target a tractored drone held by the enemy, and the second drone hits the tractored drone, there is no defensive fire because the target was the drone and not the ship. The ship or it's shields then take 24 points of drone damage.

Yes, that is correct. Do note that the shield that takes damage is the one the tractored drone impacted, not whatever shield is facing the enemy at the moment.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct.
Hence the purpose of the tactic.
Why fire at a perfectly good shield when you may be able to score 24 points against a non-facing shield?

Of course, you have to have a drone avaialble to launch and the enemy has to co-operate.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, what that tactic is about is not getting 24 points of damage, but convincing the enemy to fire non-optimally at the incoming drone or (at best) release the tractor to take 12 points of damage. The opponent has to be completely daft to take the full 24 points of damage.
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Scoutdad
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True.
Most of the time, the target will choose a sub-optimal (for you, at least) result to prevent a nearly garaunteed 24 points of damage.
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ncrcalamine
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

however, if you are in the knife fight stage of combat, your opponent may not get the chance to drop tractor. drone launch is after tractor dropping. so if the drone hits the other drone before the other functions phase, your opponent did not get a chance to drop the tractor.

Nicole
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way to tractor a drone at range 0 ---

So still of the opinion the Tactic is useless,
and people are creating a loophole that's not actually there ---

But if that's how you want to play, have at it ---
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gar1138
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
No way to tractor a drone at range 0 ---

So still of the opinion the Tactic is useless,
and people are creating a loophole that's not actually there ---

But if that's how you want to play, have at it ---

Yes, you can tractor a drone that has impacted during the Defensive Fire Phase. It is one of the steps for drone defense. You then remove the drone from the board and place it on the ship card, on the shield that it has impacted (while still being held in the tractor beam).

Perhaps that is the confusion? This tactic is about targeting a previously impacted drone, not an un-impacted drone being held in a tractor beam at range 1. Check out 1E2c Step 3, and 5D4.

Garrett
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you tractor a drone in defensive fire it is at range 0. Defensive fire does not occur at range 1, I think you are confusing the rule for what range phasers are considered to be as somehow translating to tractors being at range 1 as well. You do not move an impacted tractor back a hex if you tractor it, it is still range 0.

Though that is irrelevant, as if you note the rule that Scoutdad quoted it makes no mention of range, it does, however, explicitly state if your drone hits a drone that was tractored after a previous impact it does what is being said - there is no reference to that having to be at range 0, it just clobbers the ship irrespective of range under those conditions.

However, for the rules lawyers, the part quoted above requires the drone that was tractored to hit the drone that was fired at it and not the other way around. And that will never actually happen (as it is tractored), one could argue that Scoutdads tactic doesn't work on that technicality. I dare say that was a typo and was meant to say if A hits B and not B hits A.


Last edited by storeylf on Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impacted is a loose term, (nothing I've stated relates anyway to a drone in flight)

Lots of rules, starting with movement coincide to create the situation,
Because of how movement interacts with firing, it's accepted that defensive fire occurs during the drones approach (since you can't during movement phase),
Otherwise at range zero you would have no recourse
Same with tractor, on follow-up impulses (while drone is tractored), your required to use range 1 during defensive fire (indicating your holding the drone at range 1) ---

Being mainly a Klingon player, I still see the ruling as incorrect ---
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gar1138
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The term "impacted" seems pretty well defined to me. Once a seeking weapon reaches the hex of its target, it has impacted. It is removed from the board and placed on the shield of the target that it hit/impacted.

From that point, only the target can deal with it during the next Defensive Fire Phase (ignoring formal Aegis escorts). It is at range zero. Perhaps the confusion is that you use the range 1 column on the phaser chart to determine damage when firing phasers at impacted seeking weapons (drones and plasma).

Garrett
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Perhaps the confusion is that you use the range 1


Not confusion, just believe differently why Range 1 is used ---

I also don't believe that 5D4b/5D4c should operate differently ----

My opinions, believe in them enough to defend them ----



[/quote]
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please house-rule as you need to in order to make the game fun for you and your group.

However, an impacted drone held in a tractor is effectively at range 0, even though Defensive Fire uses the range 1 column. Defensive Fire using "range 1" has always been explained as an abstraction necessitated by the game's firing mechanics. That is pretty much how it always has been, and I really don't see it changing anytime.
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gar1138
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
I also don't believe that 5D4b/5D4c should operate differently ----

Heheheh, I totally agree on that one. I think most of the games I've played, we've always ignored 5D4c (and only used 5D4b if the tractor was destroyed or unpowered) since it doesn't really make any sense. But I digress. Smile

Garrett
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under 4F5 -- Both impact that shield of the target and both cause damage (and either or both could be stopped by defensive fire) ---

So if I have a phaser available, destroy the first drone with defensive fire, the second goes inert and not do damage ---


Yes, your abstract is throwing a bigger loop than you imagine
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