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Few quick PPD questions.
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Kingmaker
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Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:37 am    Post subject: Few quick PPD questions. Reply with quote

If I'm understanding this correctly. Each PPD pulse is treated as a separate volley subject to shield reinforcement. I wanted to confirm that.

My second question is does my opponent roll on the damage track for 2 or 3 "4 point" volleys on the damage track? that can make for some annoying accounting.

Finally, can PPD's target weapons and power? Because if they do that multiple volley trick, and combined with weapons targeting, they can strip the guns very quickly due to how the six track is structured.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the pulses are added togther into a single volley, per shield of course.

So If you fire at range 9 and roll a 10 you have hit with 3 pulses (1 over the to hit number means you lose one pulse).

That means you do 3-12-3 damage overall, each of the 3 shields is a seperate volley, but there is only 1 volley per shield. So you apply 12 damage to the facing shield as a single volley, and then 3 to each of the othe 2 shields as seperate vollyes.

You just roll each volleys damage once if the shield is down as with any other volley (not as 3 *4 small volleys). If all 3 shields were down then yes you would be rolling for a volley of 3, a volley of 12 and another volley of 3.

And yes PPDs can indeed aim.
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Kingmaker
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Joined: 29 Dec 2011
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Location: Edmonton

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf wrote:
All the pulses are added togther into a single volley, per shield of course.

So If you fire at range 9 and roll a 10 you have hit with 3 pulses (1 over the to hit number means you lose one pulse).

That means you do 3-12-3 damage overall, each of the 3 shields is a seperate volley, but there is only 1 volley per shield. So you apply 12 damage to the facing shield as a single volley, and then 3 to each of the othe 2 shields as seperate vollyes.

You just roll each volleys damage once if the shield is down as with any other volley (not as 3 *4 small volleys). If all 3 shields were down then yes you would be rolling for a volley of 3, a volley of 12 and another volley of 3.

And yes PPDs can indeed aim.


Thanks Storyelf we completely misunderstood how this worked, and thought when it was talking about volleys, that it was talking about the individual pulses, not the different shield strikes.
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Spacecowboy87
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good to know. Our group is just getting into PPDs and we were a bit fuzzy on the number of volleys-- three or twelve Shocked (three shields times four pulses) We thought 12 was a bit much, but it was late and it took us a while to read through the rule properly. Also because it was late, I forgot about the "myopic zone," so my perfect shot never happened Rolling Eyes but it was all a good first lesson.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

storeylf's answer is correct. I think he covered all the points, too.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, would you work those up for communique and send them to me?
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paulgenna
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:15 pm    Post subject: PPD limitation Reply with quote

Can someone give an explanation why the ISC is limited on PPD's to the number of ships? The Hydrans do not have any limitations on the Helbore nor the Feds on Photons so I'm trying to understand why the ISC is limited on the number of PPD's.

We are playing a campaign and we limit the number of ships to 10 so it is easy to go over 10 PPDs and still be weaker than a Federation fleet which might have 40 photons.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doctrine, PPDs are on "echelon core ships" which hold back and damage opposing ships from afar. Don't forget your Type-S plasma torpedoes, those things can do serious damage.

40 photons on ten ships? How big is the fleet in points? Are we talking ten NCLs (1,250 points) or something like that??
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always assumed it was partly to reflect the fairly strict ISC doctrine of not putting out PPD ships without escorts, and partly play balance.

PPDs are very powerful weapons, if you had no limit you could take 20 odd PPDs in a 10 ship fleet, the Feds would really struggle against that - half their fleet could be effectively KO'd at range 10 by heavy hitting aimed shooting, with the other half having to dodge plasma (even it was only rear Fs).

I've played a few largish games with ISC (1000pts at ~ 7 ships) and not found the PPD limit to be a great problem.

The best ISC fleets are the ones that mix PPD ships with Plasma S ships IMHO.
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paulgenna
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: PPD limitation Reply with quote

Hey Terryoc,

We allow between 4 to 10 ships per fleet and no limit on ship points, since we have economic points to purchase ships. To sort of limit the number of big ships, we have a maintenance cost for each ship, for example a DN is 25 points plus another 20 points for the required support ships.

For ten ships there must be a CC or bigger. If the ship is bigger than a CC then we require a certain make-up of Capital Ship, 2x DD. FF, CL/CA/CS. The other five ships can be whatever you want. A player could have a CC and nine other cruisers in a ten ship fleet. Based on the rules the Feds would be able to muster 40 photons and the ISC would be limited to 10 PPDs and 20 Plasma-S's. Since Feds only have to pay 1 point to hold a photon it is easy for them to get a speed of 24 and accelerate to 24+1, which is often discussed on the forum for tactics, to evade a plasma.

Paul
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: PPD limitation Reply with quote

paulgenna wrote:
Based on the rules the Feds would be able to muster 40 photons and the ISC would be limited to 10 PPDs and 20 Plasma-S's. Since Feds only have to pay 1 point to hold a photon it is easy for them to get a speed of 24 and accelerate to 24+1, which is often discussed on the forum for tactics, to evade a plasma.

Paul


The problem for the Feds is that even with 40 photons to 10 PPDs it is still the ISC who have the range advantage, (10PPDs at range 10 equal about 150 damage to facing shield, whilst 40 photons only average about 104 at that range, and that ignores the substantial splash damage PPDs do). If played properly the plasma make it hard to close to overload range. Remember the ISC here should not be bothered whether you can outrun the plasma. Their purpose is to keep you from closing to overload range, anything else is gravy.

24+ will allow you to run away from plasma as opposed to 'evade', that usually means away from the enemy as well, especially if that is what the enemy is wanting, as they will turn in an opposite direction to your 'evasion'.

So you charge at the enemy with your standard load photons, probably lose 2 ships at range 10 to the PPDs (or maybe 3 or 4 ships cripppled with heavy aimed volleys) , then run away from plasma whilst the ISC turn away and rearm. By the time you get back on them they are rearmed and you repeat the process.

Even if you do get to overload range, unless you actually have overloads you will only be engaging in a fairly even exchange of direct firepower whilst still having to deal with all that plasma as well.
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paulgenna
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: PPD limitation Reply with quote

We have our first fight in two weeks so we will see how it plays out. The Fed player is not going to have 40 photons so that will help.

The Feds have the following:

Bismarck BC
4x CA
1x Plasma FF
2x War Destroyers
1x Drone Cruiser
1x Galactic Survey/Scout ship

ISC
Battleship
1x FF
2x DD (one of which is a scout)
1x CL
1x CS may need to make this 2 and reduce one Star Cruiser
3x Star Cruiser
1x CC

storylf do you recommend turning once the torps are launched, thus exposing weaker shields, or heading at them until they turn off? Turning provides another group of F-torps that could be used as well.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's is no real answer to that, it depends what the other guy is doing. How big the map is, what terrain etc.


That looks a fairly one sided fight to me, you should crush the Feds. Your fleet looks far better, and whilst I've only quickly guestimated the points in my head, I think you have something like a 30%+ points edge.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is becoming more a tactics discussion, but I also note that you are using scout ships. I think you will find that benefits the ISC quite a bit as PPDs and plasma are not so badly affected by the +1 shift, whilst photons are affected quite badly.

Photons average a 50% loss of power at 9-10 and 33% at 5-8, whereas PPDs only lose ~19% at 4-10. Another reason why PPDs are potent weapons.

Adjusting for the scouts 10PPDs output ~120 damage at range 4-10, whilst even 40 standard load photons only average ~56 at range 9-12, and ~104 at 5-8. That really does mean that a Fed force desperately needs to get into overload range at the very least, and with overloads rather than standards.

Try imagining that without PPD limits. 20PPds vs a 40 photon Fed force would be incredibly one sided, especially if you were still able to fit in the large ships with Plasma Ss as well as their Plasma Fs, which your campiagn sounds like it allows.
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paulgenna
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: First battle Reply with quote

We had our firat battle and I was surprised with how effective the PPD's were. I targeted three ships with the 10 and blew the primary shield out on all three even with a +1 from the opponents scout ship.

I did like the mix of weapons PPD, Plasma and Phasers. The ISC side took two ships completely out and damaged 2 others pretty good.

I have another question from our battle. For the Plasma-F's can they be launched to intercept drones not targeted at the firing ship? For example, my destroyer was not targeted but the Battleship had 14 drones on it. Could the DD have fired a Plasma-F to intercept one or two of the drones? If they can do I need to run a counter of simply remove the drone as long as the Plasma will be able to do at least 4 points of damage?

Thanks,

Paul
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