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Hydrans against plasma armed ships.

 
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OSRbaron
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Joined: 22 Aug 2011
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Location: Frederick, MD

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Hydrans against plasma armed ships. Reply with quote

It may be posted somewhere, but I did not see it on a cursory glance.

What is the best way for hydrans to tackle plasma armed enemies?
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terryoc
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Joined: 07 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydrans don't historically fight plasma-armed enemies, only the Klingons, Lyrans, and (sometimes) Vudar. I suppose the ISC count as plasma-armed... So it may not be a balanced match-up.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends. Are you using hellbore ships or fusion ships?

If you are using hellbore ships, it shouldn't be that much different than flying a Fed ship against them. Go fast and take your shots. Don't get cornered.

If you are using fusion ships, things just got a lot harder. Again, go fast. Here, you do get the advantage that the fusions don't take any power until you use them. Therefore, you can go as fast as you need, and only fire when the opportunity presents itself. You do have the huge disadvantage, however, that in a phaser duel you will lose unless it is at point blank range. (In which case, of course, the fusions come back into play, and it isn't a phaser duel anymore.)

Fighters are harder. Having a maximum speed of 16 presents a lot of problems. There are two things to remember: 1) If you wait until he fires his plasma, he can't target your fighters. 2) If he does feel compelled to target your fighters, it will be overkill and will be plasma not fired at your ships. You are dependent on what he does to figure your plan out, but fighters do give you several options. If nothing else, just having the fighters in your shuttle bays will force him to keep his speed at 24, limiting his options.

Finally, if it is a Romulan that cloaks, don't bother firing Ph-Gs or fusions at him. Those two weapons get screwed more than just about any others by cloak. (Range 5-15 normal load disruptors also get a complaint.) Instead, if you have fighters, just dump them on top of him and hold your fire until he uncloaks. Unlike other opponents, a fighter is perfect for keeping up with a cloaked ship. Just wait for him to uncloak (he has to at some point) and kill him in the transition impulse.

Have I done this myself? No. But, looking at the general situation, these are some points that immediately spring to mind. Quite frankly, it would seem to me that the Hydran should have a good position.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

terryoc wrote:
Hydrans don't historically fight plasma-armed enemies, only the Klingons, Lyrans, and (sometimes) Vudar. I suppose the ISC count as plasma-armed... So it may not be a balanced match-up.


There was a short-term deployment of a Romulan squadron (under Admiral Roxanna Vulpes) on the Hydran front during the General War; though, aside from the quick note included in this file, there hasn't been too much written up about it just yet. (Although, given how much of a footnote it is reported to be in the history of that conflict, there may not be all that much more to report.)
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Klingon of Gor
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the enemy is ISC, you need to close as quickly as possible. Get inside heir myopic zone. Your phaser Gs can greatly reduce plasma S damage, and after that, can be used on the enemy ship. This applies to Hellbore or fusion. Close fast with the ISC, as fast as possible. With Hellbores, hold fire until you get inside overload range. Ideally, you should be close enough to see faces of the ISC crew looking out the viewports.

With Romulans, it hardly matters. Bolts can't cause enough damage to take down Hydrans, and Hydran ships are fairly resistant to seeking plasma.

With Gorns, the main issue will be their carronades. The above comments about Romulan seeking plasma appies to the Gorns as well.
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storeylf
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Joined: 24 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorn, Rom, ISC (and orion) are all sufficiently different to make it hard to generalise.

The lack of scenario parameters also make it hard to say much, tactics will differ a lot depending on whether you play on a small (e.g. tourney size) fixed map or a larger map, with or without terrain etc. Is there any restrictions on what the hydran force must look like (must it take fighters, or be mxed HB/FUS etc)?

If you are playing on a small map then the plasma user is screwed by the 3 turn arming cycle with no where to run during it, if the map is large enough he is not and things are a lot more interesting (I always advocate playing on a larger map, plasma or not). Contrary to popular opinon, the small map is not a plasma ships best friend, a large (but still 'fixed') map is, a plasma ship wants to be able to corner the enemy but is far more interested in not being cornered himself whilst rearming.

On the whole though you can't often go wrong with hydran fusion ships, they are hugely underpointed if you leave out the fighters. You will be paying 111 points for a heavy cruiser whilst the Gorn and Roms are paying 160-180 for a similar size ship. In a 450 point game you can have 4 CAs to their 2 and a smaller ship, a huge advantage.

Be wary of fighters vs cloaked Roms, what MWest said above is not what will happen unless you are really on top of what you are doing. The transition turn still sees a +4 range, it will take a very large numbers of fighters to kill anything with that mod, +4 range is pretty bad on gatlings and fusions. Yet if you don't kill the Roms during the transition then you will lose the fighters before they even get to fire. This can be a very cat and mouse game. If you have the critical mass of fighrers then you are looking at a draw as he won't uncloak and you can't kill him in any meaningful time, if you don't have the critical mass of fighters then he will be looking to wait until just that moment when someone can safely uncloak for an impulse, kill 3 fighters and recloak, eventually turning it into a no fighters fight. This can be a looong game, trying to outfox each other largely during EA and speed declaration (which will dictate how easy the hydran ships can keep on top of the rom positions and support the fighters, without being at risk themselves).

Fighter forces obviously also suffer if the plasma force has PL-Ds as well.

When facing plasma always keep your free HET for one of 2 things - saving your butt when nothing else will, or being absolutely sure that you will deliver a game winning strike.
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duxvolantis
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Joined: 16 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fighters vs cloaked Roms.

Stay on top of him while cloaked, but use your move priority to be one-hex directly behind him on the fade-in impulse when he could launch. Most Romulans have RP/LP/FP/FA plasma which means that is their blind spot. On a ship with RS/LS the hexes right off the #3 and 5 shields are mostly blind. In other words, study his firing arcs.

(How to move to end up behind him. On sub-impulse 4. If he cancels movement, cancel your movement. You will be in same hex which is not as good as behind but it will work if you brought enough fighters. If he turns right or left move directly forward. If he sideslips either direction, cancel movement to be off his 3/5 shield. If he HETs, cancel your move and HET to the appropriate facing.)

Fighters are attrition units so do the math (1 plasma at close range = 1 fighter that will not get to fire (crippled or dead)) and put enough so that the ones you lose to plasma will leave you with 2-4 surviving stingers. That will either wreck him or damage him so badly he will not be able to afford high speed and cloaking and your ships can come finish him off.

Make sure your ship is moving at a good clip and in position to come in and murder him if he HETs and unloads plasma on the fighters.

Be sure to recover crippled fighters--which should be easy while he is cloaked. Plasma games with cloak tend to be very long and you can often repair and re-arm the Stingers and get them back into the battle.
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