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When does cargo transfer take place in the sequence of play?

 
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Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: When does cargo transfer take place in the sequence of play? Reply with quote

When does cargo transfer take place in the sequence of play?

This question would have 2 parts:

1. If cargo is transferred by transporter, can it happen during the Other Functions part of any Impulse OR would it happen sometime during the End Of Turn procedures?

2. Can we assume that cargo transfer by docking (or landing) takes place during the End Of Turn procedures? If so, exactly when?

One reason for asking has to do with Marine combat. Here is an example. Marines have gotten onto a docked ship and must capture the ship before cargo can be transferred from it. [By the way, I know the docking must be by mutual agreement, but consider this a special allowance in a particular scenario.] If cargo transfer by docking occurs BEFORE Marine combat, then absolutely no cargo could be transferred until the turn following the capture of the ship. But if cargo transfer happens AFTER Marine combat, it could be transferred that same turn.

To me, it doesn't sound reasonable that cargo could be transferred on the same turn as Marines are still fighting to gain control of a ship, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. That's why I'm asking.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's defined in the rules anywhere. Generally speaking, it would be defined on a case by case basis in the scenario.

With cargo transfer by transporter, it would happen at the same time as other things are moved by transporter. By shuttle, assume that it is loaded/unloaded from the shuttle on the impulse it launches/lands, for simplicity. Transfer by docking... I think I'd allow it until the ship is captured in the case you cite. The Marines would only control part of the ship, and there's a number of hatches and airlocks on any ship.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't defined. I will need to check with Steve, but right now I will say transfer by docking takes place prior to the marine phase. So, you can transfer before losing the ship, but the victor can't transfer until next turn. Actually, given that marine transfer by docking takes place in the marine phase, I'll say that cargo transfer does, too. The effect is what I describe above, but gives the cargo transfer a logical home.

As a corrollary, this also means you can dock, transfer, and undock all in one turn.
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Bolo_MK_XL
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have to wait a whole turn (32 Impulses) in SFB to do things like repair / reload Fighter/Shuttle after it landed, wouldn't that apply to other actions like transferring after ships docked??????
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Mike West, your solution seemed logical to me and was right along the lines I was thinking. I just needed corroboration.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
If you have to wait a whole turn (32 Impulses) in SFB to do things like repair / reload Fighter/Shuttle after it landed, wouldn't that apply to other actions like transferring after ships docked??????


Well, considering that the ship is on the ground for all 8 impulses and for nearly the entire turn, I don't really see the problem. Considering that the landed ship can do just about everything else that turn, I don't see a good reason to prevent the cargo transfer.
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DirkSJ
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mjwest wrote:
Bolo_MK_XL wrote:
If you have to wait a whole turn (32 Impulses) in SFB to do things like repair / reload Fighter/Shuttle after it landed, wouldn't that apply to other actions like transferring after ships docked??????


Well, considering that the ship is on the ground for all 8 impulses and for nearly the entire turn, I don't really see the problem. Considering that the landed ship can do just about everything else that turn, I don't see a good reason to prevent the cargo transfer.

Isn't there a more important question that is being left out? How long is a SFB/FC turn actually? That's what is actually needed to compute how long it takes to move cargo through a dock.

Digging around on the internet I found wildly different answers: from 1/30th of a second to 1 minute for the whole turn. Neither of which seem like enough time to move much of anything without using a transporter.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isn't there a more important question that is being left out? How long is a SFB/FC turn actually? That's what is actually needed to compute how long it takes to move cargo through a dock.

Digging around on the internet I found wildly different answers: from 1/30th of a second to 1 minute for the whole turn. Neither of which seem like enough time to move much of anything without using a transporter.


I gave up on that bit of trekishness a long time ago. Some have said that TOS had some ridiculous things about it, but the SFU has its share, too. The physics just doesn't support the time scales and warp speeds, so I don't get too bothered about the length of a game turn either.
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mjwest
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A turn in SFB is supposed to be a second or so (the 1/30 of a second [really 1/32] was the length of an impulse), but the perceived time on board the ship is a minute. Which doesn't actually work out in any way.

In Federation Commander, it was left undefined. I don't think it has ever been stated what a "turn" in Federation Commander. Personally, I hope it stays that way.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the answer "A turn in SFB/FC is long enough for everything that happens in a turn to happen" Laughing
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Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm not mistaken, Federation Commander official materials have never stated that anything that happens does so at faster-than-light speeds. For all we know, it all happens sublight.
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terryoc
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The material upon which the SFU is based (TOS & FJ tech manual) states combat is at warp speed. But that opens a can of worms, so as an SFU apologist I'm just going to handwave it away as a "mystery". Smile
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In any case, the distinction between non-tactical warp and tactical warp drive still exists in Federation Commander; though the former has a little more leeway in terms of how many hexes a "sublight" ship can go per turn relative to how it goes in SFB.
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