Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Suicide shuttle
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ncrcalamine
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject: Suicide shuttle Reply with quote

In the end game you launch a suicide shuttle directly at an enemy

2 hexes away in that hex row. Next impulse the speed 0 enemy accelerates and either slips or turns into ahex next to the hex the shuttle must move into on its first move. Now by the rules the shuttle just keeps orbiting the stationary target making a 60 degree turn each impulse.
Suicide shuttles need to be able to break and turn in a impulse so they can make a 60 degree turn to hit their target on the next impulse.


Nicole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Krellex
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 30 Sep 2009
Posts: 261
Location: RIS Boise

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rule 4F3e; says that the seeking weapon can make a High Energy Turn if it causes the weapon to hit on that current movement sub-pulse. So, the shuttle doesn't have to play ring around the rosie on a non-moving target.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ncrcalamine
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suicide shuttles cannot het

Nicole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1882

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it does, shuttles cannot HET.

Shuttles are simply very situational.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3496
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suicide Shuttles cannot HET. They operate under the restrictions of both seeking weapons and shuttles. Since shuttles cannot HET, suicide shuttles cannot HET.

As Lee points out, suicide shuttles are limited seeking weapons. In your example, while the suicide shuttle did not hit like you wanted, you did force your opponent to make an unwanted move and waste power. It will also continue to limit your opponent's movement options until they get some weapons back. So, it is having an effect, just not the one you wanted.
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
storeylf
Fleet Captain


Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 1882

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Nicole has described it slightly wrong, but I think what she is saying is that:

1 hex away from you is the enemy.
You launch the shuttle facing directly at it.
It accels to get 1 move in before the shuttle.
It slips so that it is either on the shuttles 2 or 6.
The shuttle must move ahead, so the enemy is now on its 3 or 5.

At this point the enemy ship need never pay any more power, it can sit still and never get hit by the shuttle. And the shuttle can not HET, and must follow the seeker move rules it will always be stuck circling around the stationary ship, but never actually being able to move into the hex. That does seem very odd, that you can't impact a now stationary target.


That is quite amusing.

I don't consider it a problem per se. The shuttle has still had an effect - it has forced the enemy to remain exactly where he is, unless he wants to get into then having to outmanouver the shuttle. A tractor could also be used to get the shuttle to hit by pulling the enemy to the hex you want (it spent 0 on move so is not going to be the controlling ship).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike
Captain


Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1563
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, quite amusing!
_________________
Mike

=====
"Sometimes our best is not enough. We must do what is required." -- Winston Churchill
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In SFB this was known as the 'Zimdars Dipsy Doodle', and as far as I know is the reason why seeking weapons in FC can (and must) HET to hit the target if they can.

Otherwise, the player owning the seeking weapon can simply decide to HET and hit when the seeker is next to the weakest shield.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Bolo_MK_XL
Commander


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 794
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In SFB this was known as the 'Zimdars Dipsy Doodle',


Yes, but seeker couldn't run around the ship looking for a down shield, requirement is seeker must move closer to target if possible ---- That carried over to FC ---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kang
Fleet Captain


Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could, because the turn mode hexes requirement for the seeker was 1, and it wasn't compelled to HET. It did indeed have to move as close as possible, but the only way it could get closer than 1 hex was to HET, which wasn't compulsory. A unit with a turn mode of 1 has a turning circle with a radius of 1 hex, and if the target was within that circle then it couldn't be hit. Oh and the other thing was that the weapon had to be launched with a facing 120 degrees away from its target - legal but dependant on the launching range being 1 hex.

Check out Captain's Log #11, page 67. It's in there Smile Actually, the tactic itself is on p.68, left column, just below the middle.



Admins: If I have been a bad person for posting the image, let me know and I'll take it down.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Steve Cole
Site Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3086

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few people know where the name comes from.

On an episode of Hogan's Heroes, the boys in the Stalag convinced Klink that a psychic had predicted the colonel would lead his troops to a great victory that would be known in history as "the Klink Dipsy Doodle."

I happened to see a rerun of that the day I got the letter from Zimdars with the tactics paper.
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mjwest
Commodore


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 3496
Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh. Of course, many (if not most) of the people reading that probably have no idea what "Hogan's Heroes" even is. Smile

On the image, I think it is OK, so let's not worry about it. If it is bad, then Jean will kill it in one shot. It should be short enough to be good, though.

As a more general explanation, yes, this is exactly why the rule on HETs for seeking weapons is different between Federation Commander and SFB. The tactic quoted is only for SFB; it doesn't apply to Federation Commander at all. And this is by design.

Finally, do note that while the situation with the suicide shuttle is very similar to that old SFB tactic, the effect is completely different. The SFB tactic will cause a disadvantage for the defender (target). The suicide shuttle situation is a disadvantage for the attacker. Also, the whole point of the SFB tactic is to delay the HET to maximum effect. The suicide shuttle can't do any of that, as it has not HET to use.

(I figure this is probably obvious to all of the readers, but the conversation has drifted enough that I wanted to make sure the seemly obvious observations were actually stated.)
_________________

Federation Commander Answer Guy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
terryoc
Captain


Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 1380

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Ziiiiimmmmdaaaaaars!"

Captain Klink, DSF
_________________
"Captain" Terry O'Carroll, fourteen papers published including six best of issue
"Man, Terry, you are like a loophole seeking missle!" - Mike West
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trynda1701
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 121
Location: BR "Swanmay"

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, "Hogan's Heroes", that takes me back. And I'm in the UK! lol

Mark
_________________
C'mon the Orions!

Check out www.AllScaleTrek.com. A new forum dedicated to Star Trek kits, miniatures and collectables.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Capt Jack
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 102
Location: England U.K

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance of a change to suicide shuttle rules?

Here are my two ideas.

1. Increase Shuttle speed to base 16, the trade off being each point of power only does 1 point damage instead of 3. Shocked

2. Or give the Suicide a free turn(facing change) on impulse 3. This will stop the Zimdars Dipsy Doodle! Twisted Evil
_________________
Captain Jack a.k.a The Unorthodox, Scourge of the Dreadnought and Master of the PH3, Grandmaster of the PH3 RA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Rules Questions All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group