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Fleet composition
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Spacecowboy87
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Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 189
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Fleet composition Reply with quote

Putting fleets together is fun if you like a lot of math and a bunch of silly (I mean important) restrictions (cough cough Tholians Rolling Eyes ) But I do have a few questions:
1) Should a Romulan fleet try to be of the same type (old, new, Klingon) or was blending common?
2) Similarly, should a Hydran fleet have a blend of types? There are just as many variables here too -- fusion or hellbore, stingers or no stingers. And on that topic, is it common to give a ship less than its full complement of stingers for sake of points balance?
3) What is the largest fleet the Wyn would put together-- either by points or number of ships?
Thanks in advance.
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Should a Romulan fleet try to be of the same type (old, new, Klingon) or was blending common?

The old and new types used the same logistics network, no problem with blending. The KRs used a unique spare parts system and they tried to keep them more or less against the Feds but sometimes had to use them agains the Gorns.

2) Similarly, should a Hydran fleet have a blend of types? There are just as many variables here too -- fusion or hellbore, stingers or no stingers. And on that topic, is it common to give a ship less than its full complement of stingers for sake of points balance?

Hydrans always blended both types.

3) What is the largest fleet the Wyn would put together-- either by points or number of ships?

FC doesn't bother itself with picky matters of how many ships actually existed.
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Spacecowboy87
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that a lot of picky matters are overlooked in FC (which I kinda dig), but we don't want to go completely nuts and have the Gorns put down a Hydran invasion Smile consisting of 20 D7Hs Laughing
But if FC wants to give players free rein, why bother mentioning the restrictions on Neo-Tholians? I mean, who wouldn't want to mow down a bunch of Klingons with a squadron of 3 NCAs? But if it wouldn't happen in "reality," then maybe it shouldn't be encouraged in FC? I'm sure there are players who fill every Orion option mount with a phaser G, despite it being "illegal" in game terms.
I guess I'm trying to find a balance between the historical unfolding of the SFU, and what might be fun to try.
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djdood
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes the restrictions are for gameplay reasons. Too many web-casters (or PPDs) can unbalance things.
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdood wrote:
Sometimes the restrictions are for gameplay reasons. Too many web-casters (or PPDs) can unbalance things.

This is the exact issue. Some things that were limited in SFB just to keep a lid on things (e.g. fleet size limits) were not included in Federation Commander. But things that were pure play-balance (e.g. PPD limit) were included in Federation Commander. So that is why Federation Commander doesn't care how many ships the WYN brings to a battle, but does care about the weapon mix of those WYN ships.
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Nerroth
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you wanted to, you could try and see what kind of effect a Tholian Will fleet would have had in the Milky Way, by using the home galaxy restrictions in (8B4) (use particle cannons instead of disruptors, etc) and assembling a fleet of Neos (with no "new" Holdfast units).

However, if anything, it would likely act as a demonstration of one key historical point; the web caster, used in such numbers as available to a full Neo-Tholian fleet, was a galaxy-conquering advantage that only the advent of the web breaker could undo.

(Unless you are hiding in a nebula, in which case the non-web-fist applications don't work; a key reason why the semi-isolated Nebuline colonies supporting the various High Pirate Bands in the M81 Galaxy remained in existence during the long centuries of Tholian rule.)
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paulgenna
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Joined: 21 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: PPD's Reply with quote

Everyone picks on the PPD's. I sure wish I could have more than 10 in a battle. Very Happy
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason you want more than 10 is the reason we can't let it happen.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: PPD's Reply with quote

paulgenna wrote:
Everyone picks on the PPD's. I sure wish I could have more than 10 in a battle. Very Happy


Just take more than 10 ships. Razz
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Steve Cole
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

won't help, the rules limit the number of ISC PPDs in one fleet.
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It limits it to the number of ships in the ISC fleet. There is no limit to fleet size in FedCom.

There fore if you want more than 10 PPDs you just have to take more than 10 ships. e.g. 11 ships means you can have 11 PPDs.

Alternatively, as the rules limit ISC fleets only, you could take 3 Orion DNs + 1 BCH for 11 PPDs on 4 ships (they can each have 3 and 2 PPDs respectively).


Last edited by storeylf on Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jeffery smith
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was not aware of a published configuration for the Orion option mounts that would allow this.
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jeffery smith
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

story elf:

PPD requires 2 adjacent option mounts.

That means the 3xDN and the battlecruiser can only carry 1 each per the option mounts list in 5L.

(5L1) if ESG or Plasma S is selected, another of the forward mounts must remain empty. Orions can use PPD's in combinations able to hold a plasma S.

So for the BC/BCH if you put a PPD in mount A, mount B has to remain empty.

On the DN if you put a PPD in mount A, mount B has to remain empty but you could mount a single space weapon into mount C (but there is not enough room for a 2nd ESG,Plasma S, or PPD).
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Dal Downing
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffrey Smith - are you looking at Fleet Scale or Squadron Scale ships? The Orion DN has a total of six Center Line option mounts in Squadron Scale. ABC have the double cross symbol but DEF are still Center Line mounts that can be left open. Which means Lee's count of 3 is right in Squadron Scale but, I have a feeling this loop hole is going to get closed real quick.
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Last edited by Dal Downing on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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storeylf
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plasma S doesn't require 'adjacent mounts' technically, they require another forward mount. The DN has 6 forward mounts. Ergo it can hold 3 plasma S. Indeed 5L shows that A,B,C can all have plasma S - because D,E and F then become the 2nd boxes that are sacrificed.

If you look at the Heavy cruiser with only 2 mounts up front it can have a Plasma S in A. Option B doesn't list a plasma S as that is the extra mount you give up (it could have said B can have the plasma and you also give up A, but that is the same effect).


PS Whilst I expect it is a loop hole that may be closed, I am not sure it is really that bad. The Orion DN will cost you 328 points and the BCH 210, so that is 1194 for 4 ships that are not really that great (the orion DN is pretty weak for its points).

For 1194 points you get 11 PPDs, 30 Ph1s, 8 drones and 30 Ph3s

The cheap ISC version is 5 FF, 5 CS and 1 CA which is only 106 points more.

The ISC get 11 PPDs, 58 Ph1s, 24 Plasma F, 2 Plasma S and 46 Ph3s. Not mention a whole lot more boxes and shields to kill.

The PPD limit fits the ISC fluff more, but not the orions. Given that orions can't really break the limit without being very much a 1 trick pony I don't see a huge problem.
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