Federation Commander

[Nerroth]

As discovered by Bill Stec on another forum, one paragraph in particular from the latest Judge Dredd Kickstarter update is of note for the Starline 2500 series:

[phdillman]

SVC mentioned on that other forum that he's known about this for sometime.

[djdood]

Per SVC's comment on the other forum, please no questions or speculation until an official reveal from ADB/Mongoose, in regards to Starline 2500 production. Some aspects are still secret and SVC wants to keep it that way until proper discussions take place.

A few days won't kill anyone. The line is definitely continuing (and about to get better).
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[Steve Cole]

The new production facility is run by Bruce Graw, who has been doing the 2400s (with no production delays and great quality control) for years.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[bluebirds38]

did not know that, bruce is a good guy.

[DKeith2011]

Bruce and company did excellent work on the Babylon 5 minis back in the day, glad to know the 2500 line is in good hands.

[Steve Cole]

Word from Matty this morning is that Bruce is now up and running, but that the 16-ship fleet boxes won't reappear this year (if ever).
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[Bill Stec]

[djdood]

I could lie and say I didn't order my sole un-purchased Fleet Box (the Gorns), late this morning.

Given the way economics go, I doubt the price-break rolled into the $150/16-ship boxes will be the same on whatever the packaging ends up being. Roughly $9.50 a ship is tough to beat.
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[Steve Cole]

I would expect that individuals and squadron boxes are all you're going to be able to get for a year or so at least, maybe forever.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[Gimp]

After the price jump from $100 to $150, I never found the fleet boxes that good a deal. Actually, I thought their 'deal' was obnoxious.

You got 16 ships, 6 shuttles, and the mini rulebook, for $150. For $120, you could buy three squadron boxes with 15 ships. One ship, six overpriced shuttles, and a rulebook I didn't need was not worth $30 for me.

With the ships and shuttles selling for $15 a pack, the only advantage was that the fleet boxes came in one package, and you could get multiple mini-rulebooks if you had interest in ACTA:SF and liked lots of duplication.

You can only use so many shuttles at once in a game, so you get 16 ships for $150, or $9.38 each, or go with the squadron boxes, and get five ships at $8 each. Even if you want lots of shuttles, it's better to buy them separately, because the 16 ships and shuttles would break the price down to $8.82 each, and still cost more than the squadron boxes.

I was disappointed to see the price jump for the squadron boxes from $30 to $40, but was really disappointed at the fleet boxes' jump from $100 to $150. For $10 more, you could have twenty ships.

Most companies go for a bigger price break for larger packages, but Mongoose apparently decided their mini-rulebooks, that most companies consider freebies, was apparently worth an extra $14 pricing the ships and shuttles would create at the same pricing as with the squadron boxes. 17 at the same $8 would be $136, leaving $14 for the mini-rulebook.

I won't be sad to see the current fleet boxes go, as perhaps that means different fleet boxes that are a better deal than the squadron boxes will come back later.

[Bill Stec]

Well the fleet boxes do allow you to quickly build up a decent sized force, albiet maybe not what you consider optimum, but useable.

I won't be buying multiple squadron boxes again. I made the mistake of buying 6 Fed Reinforcements boxes (mainly to get 6 DW/NCL/3 NCA hulls). I figured I could easily sell off the excess DN/BCH/other 3 NCA to recoup some of my expenditure. Ships were $8 each this way. DW/NCL/NCA were not available in the fleet box.

Lo and behold, I am still stuck with most of them because everyone else has enough DN/BCHs. I've been using them as prizes at some of the convention games I run because there is no secondary market on them.

So maybe one squadron box per Empire is about it, maybe 2 tops. The rest will be individuals. Which of course are more expensive, which may have been the cunning plan all along.

Steve:

Are you able to discuss why the fleet boxes probably won't be reappearing? Only reasons I can think of right now would be a) they're slow sellers, or b) not profitable enough, or c) they cause production issues? Or some other reason?

[Steve Cole]

Something I hope to see next year is a more rational distribution of ships in a new series of mid-range "fleet builder" boxes.
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The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander

[Bill Stec]

What about the feasibility of selling minis in 3-ship squadrons, perhaps clamshell packed, perhaps not? Personally, I like to buy most ships in 3-ship squadrons, with a few exceptions.

Or if that would be logistically difficult, how about something like:

FF
OCL
CA
DW
NCL
NCA

Klingons would be:

F5
D6
D7
E5
D5
D5W

Call them Fleet Builder Boxes, Enhanced Squadron Box, something different.

Either option would allow more flexibility in building fleets, and with the lower price point, they might sell better than $150 fleet boxes. Price them at maybe $45-50 for 6 ships? I can see people being more willing to make multiple $45 purchases over time versus one big $150 hit to the wallet. Price them at maybe $45-50 for 6 ships?

[djdood]

The problem Bill Stec noted earlier is pretty endemic for all Starline 2500 customers.

The existing box-mixes indeed led to everybody ending up with w-a-y too many battlecruisers and dreadnoughts. Some folks, like Bill, tried to sell their off (to no avail). Others, like me and Tony, kitbashed them into other things. Either way, that was money not spent on minis usable for the game table.

Because of that, I would love to see a rationalization of the package contents. The old adage of "most folks don't need more than one tug or dreadnought" from the Zochii plastic minis days is still true.

A small ships squadron box or blister (FFL or Pol, FF, DD or DW) and a medium ships box (CL/NCL, CA, NCA) would help folks build collections that are more usable in the games. Leave the "big boys" to individual blister packs.

Maybe a big ships box, if it's warranted (BCH, DNL, DN), but I kind of doubt it.

Personally, I like the fleet boxes, but the ship mixes do need adjusting to meet the needs of games other than ACTASF (and I have no idea if the mixes even service that game). Reduce the duplicates of certain types, in favor of more variety in the small and medium ships.

I'll pick on the Gorn fleet box that I just ordered.
The existing box is:
* Dreadnought
* Heavy Battlecruiser
* Battlecruiser
* Fast Battlecruiser
* Medium Cruiser
* Light Cruiser x3
* Heavy Destroyer x2
* Battle Destroyer x3
* Destroyer x3
* Shuttles x6

Again, I haven;'t played ACTASF, so I don't know if that game just loves medium-sized ships but this box-mix certainly does.

It is light on the workhorse heavy cruiser size/point-cost ships and very heavy on the the light cruiser/HDD medium size ships. The lack of a light combatant in the Pol/E4/FF range is a problem for pickup games where there is often a small remainder of point-value that is better spent on a small ship than left unspent and just made into bookkeeping for victory points (if it is even bothered to be tracked).

A more cross-game usable mix would be:
* Dreadnought
* Heavy Battlecruiser
* Battlecruiser x2 [the workhorse CA should have more than just 1 copy]
* Medium Cruiser x2
* Light Cruiser [the existing box was "medium size ship heavy"]
* Heavy Destroyer x2
* Battle Destroyer x2
* Destroyer x3
* Frigate x2 [*a mini that was not produced but should have been; every fleet should have a Pol or light frigate or two as a "points-filler" ship for pickup games]
* Shuttles x6

The cost of the box could be brought down to a lower price-point by reducing the quantities, perhaps like this:
* Battlecruiser x2
* Medium Cruiser
* Light Cruiser
* Heavy Destroyer
* Battle Destroyer x2
* Destroyer x2
* Frigate [*a mini that was not produced]

Ignoring empire-idiosyncrasies, heavy cruisers and destroyers are the backbone of the SFU fleets. All other types essentially augment or support them.
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