Federation Commander Forum Index Federation Commander
A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

News about the future of the 2500s
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Starline 2500
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sllarr
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Starbase: use the 2400.


The appeal of a 2500 Battlestation and/or Starbase for me was the bigger size. It does make sense for a base to be larger, to look impressive in a tabletop. Even if not necessarily to scale.

Quote:
...other empires...

As soon as we get working rules for:


Tony. Let's not forget that this is the 2500 miniature thread, not ACTA:SF, and there are other systems where we could use more minis with better details. There is absolutely no reason why the rules for ACTA:SF would have to be available before a new or improved SFU mini can be released. Just look at the 2400's - there are minis there for ships that only exist in SFB (not even Fed Com or Starmada!!!). At least the Lyrans already are in all other systems except ACTA.

So answering the question about new minis:

1 - Battlestation
2 - Lyrans
3 - More Orions
4 - A much larger, more detailed , Seltorian Battlewagon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nerroth
Captain


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1533
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllarr wrote:
4 - A much larger, more detailed , Seltorian Battlewagon


If this was done, and if it was given the full eight bays on the Hive Ship/Battlewagon SSDs/Ship Cards, that could allow the current six-bay 2400 model to be re-purposed as the Nest Ship/Assaultwagon instead.
_________________
FC Omega Conversion Project:
*Discussion (v2a)
*Feedback/Errata (v2a)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sllarr
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
HDWs: I just ordered Klngon and Romulan from a sculptor a few days ago.


Are the next 2500's going to be manually sculpted or through CGI process like the Mongoose ones ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
djdood
Fleet Captain


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2918
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All 2500s are digital 3D CAD models and then 3D printed for mastering.

Some of the 2400s have been done this way too and most-likely more will be in the future.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Maxtype
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Pueblo West CO

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to future 2500 ships, I am not interested in ACTA:SF, at all, I'd love to see some iconic Feds done in 2500, like the CVS/CVB/CVA. I am planning to convert my own GSC and Scout variants of other classes, but I think carriers would be beautiful in this scale.

I don't know if I'm the only one that's interested, but I would buy multiple Fed X-Ships. I could totally see myself playing "Return of the Darwin" in 2500s, were the ships available. And I would paint Masada, Big "E"-A, and probably Barikaddy if the CX becomes available. It's how I roll. Smile
_________________
Please Captain,not in front of the Klingons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steve Cole
Site Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3006

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X-ships: Maybe 2015. I have other things to do first (including PFs).

Random individual ships (e.g., Fed CVS, Fed OCA) these depend on marketability and on what parts are needed. A fed CVS for example only needs a revised rear hull and might sell ok (better if we had fighter rules in FC, Starmada, Acta). Go ahead and post requests and we'll consider them.

Bases in larger sizes: Mongoose had pretty much decided as we did that bases cannot be done to scale. (Get a dinner plate and six mayonaise jar lids. Spray paint them gray. There's your starbase.) They ended up doing a lot of generic ships to the same size (not scale) as the 2400s. This ended up, for example, with the two Free Traders being virtually identical in size AND in detail. Anyway, my thought at the moment is to take this case by case. Mongoose had no active plans in progress to do a starbase mini and given the scale issue I'd still say "use the 2400" and let me use that production slot for something more people want.
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Maxtype
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Pueblo West CO

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFs? Awesome. I'm in for (at the least) Klingons, Kzinti, and Roms.

Just as an aside on scale, the the Ertl/Polar Lights "Deep Space 9" station kit is almost the same scale (within a few % ) as the 2500s. Do we really want something that big on the table? I'll be happy with 2400 bases, myself.
_________________
Please Captain,not in front of the Klingons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sllarr
Lieutenant SG


Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify. I was not asking for the bases to be at the same scale as the ships. Not practical for gaming. Just suggesting that they should be bigger, more impressive. Specially with the larger 2500's it seems odd to me that a Starbase looks HALF the size of a CA.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Stec
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllarr wrote:
Just to clarify. I was not asking for the bases to be at the same scale as the ships. Not practical for gaming. Just suggesting that they should be bigger, more impressive. Specially with the larger 2500's it seems odd to me that a Starbase looks HALF the size of a CA.


There are bases out there that are bigger, but don't have the proper SFU look. I won't post the links here, since I don't want to cut into sales of the Starline 2400 bases...

The SL 2400 Starbase ought to work okay, unless you really want a larger base.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mdauben
Lieutenant JG


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 44
Location: Rocket City

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Cole wrote:
I think the 2500 BATS is likely to get done because it includes the augment modules that the 2400 BATS does not. However, I'd want the two to end up being the same "size" (not scale). That might mean doing the BATS over and respending money already spent on CGI, prototypes, master molds, and masters. We'll see what I think when I actually hold a 2500 BATS in my hand.

If that's the case would it be possible to re-do the old 2400 BATS into a larger size rather than the new 2500 "augment modules" BATS into a smaller size? I recognize that you can't realistically do the BATS or SB in-scale with the ships, but within reason I think bigger is better. Actually, that's asuming the 2500 BATS is bigger than the 2400 BATS? I have not seen any side by side photos to judge. Confused
_________________
Mike

"The best diplomat that I know is a fully-loaded phaser bank."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Steve Cole
Site Admin


Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 3006

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the 2500 BATS is a different size from the 2400 BATs, but the point is that I don't know.

Let's assume not. The difference is going to be no more than 1/4 or 1/2 inch overall, which to my way of thinking is not worth the bother.

But let's assume we theoretically wanted to redo the 2400 base to make tit the size of the 2500 base (if they aren't) for some reason. (We don't.) It would cost more and take longer and invalidate a thousand 2400 bases our there in the hands of customes are STILL be nowhere near the correct scale.
_________________
The Guy Who Designed Fed Commander
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Nerroth
Captain


Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 1533
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps there could be room in the 2500 range to do new base types, like the Sector Base and Stellar Fortress?

The 2500-series BATS could be re-purposed as the STB, while the production slot that would have otherwise been used for a 2500-series starbase could be given over to create a brand new model for the STF.


Speaking of bases, the Andromedans may be quite a ways off, but it would be handy if their eventual arrival into the line could be accompanied by a series of faction-specific bases for their own use. And not just for the smaller bases, like the Satellite Base; I could well imagine the Desecrator looking very different to what an Alpha Octant starbase would look like.
_________________
FC Omega Conversion Project:
*Discussion (v2a)
*Feedback/Errata (v2a)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jean
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 1239

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SVC ANSWERS TO VARIOUS MINIS REQUESTS/COMMENTS/QUESTIONS
=========
COMMENT BY SVC: We are going to do new 2400s but they will be done CGI to 2500-level detail and (eventually) released in both scales. Some of the new 2400s will be ships that already exist in both scales but are being done for 2400s to 2500 detail levels.
===
BACKGROUND BY SVC: Several steps are involved in doing a mini.
1. The CGI model has to be made and approved. Costs vary.
2. The CGI model is "printed" as a "prototype". Costs $50-$200. The prototype has to be inspected by ADB.
3. The prototype is put into a "master mold". Cost is under $20 per ship but has to be done in batches of about six different ships, which means sometimes a prototype sits waiting for more prototypes to arrive.
4. The master mold is spun and yields a master that has to be approved by ADB. Then more masters are made and hand-cleaned to eliminate any excess metal, replace missing details, or fill in any holes. Costs vary.
5. The masters are used to create a production mold, which costs $50. The trick is that some ships need more than one mold; the B9 needed six different molds.
6. Production ships are made and inspected by the factor, then QC inspected by ADB. Cost varies from under a quarter to over three dollars per ship, based on size and how hard it is to get the mold to work. Molds wear out over time and have to be replaced.
===
Got any starline ships kicking about?
- - -
ANSWER BY SVC: I don't understand the question. Do you mean any production ships? Thousands of them (see shopping cart for list). Do you mean any not-yet-produced ships? No, the only one around was broken when the post office delivered it years ago.
===
Maybe an Orion HCC or CV
- - -
SVC: I don't understand. Do you mean CCH (heavy command cruiser)? I supposed most empires have one of those that has never been sculpted. CV? Externally identical to the base hull, no mini needed.
===
Kzinti FFB and DD
Orion Medium Raider
- - -
SVC: On the list but we're not sure they'll sell very well.
===
Klingon D17
- - -
SVC: Nobody wanted the mini as it is combat-equal to the D7.
===
HDWs, Heavy War Destroyers
- - -
SVC: The Feds have had theirs for years. The Klingon and Romulan were ordered from a non-Mongoose CGI sculptor a week ago (for both scales).
===
Tugs and Pods
- - -
SVC: Might do those, but they are not big sellers. Back in the days of the 2200s, retailers refused to even carry tugs.
===
Franz Joseph Ships:
- - -
SVC: The DNG in production is close enough to the DN to make a new mini unnecessary or at least a low priority. The CA is done. The DD might be worth doing and will probably be done (as the DDG). The SC and TG would be marginal sellers at best and are far down the priority list.
===
If you do the Franz Joseph ships, it occurs to me that if I want to get 3 DD for example, I am going to have to buy 3 squadron boxes, with the issues of not needing 3 tugs or 3 DN, just like the Fed Reinforcements or Squad box 1 now. Would it be possible to sell the FJ ships in a squad box, or in groups of 3 ships (say 3 DD/Scout) to simplify the royalty recordkeeping? Just brainstorming here.
- - -
SVC: Good chance for me to educate the customers. (ADB takes more customer input than any other game company. Why? Because we take the time to teach you how things work so your input is accurate and useful.)
The Franz Joseph ships are sold in 2400-plastic in complete sets because the only way we can buy them is in complete sets. We know that you don't want three tugs, but we have to pay for three tugs, so if you want three plastic 2400 destroyers we have to charge you for three tugs, and if we charge you for them, we might as well send them to you.
Now, if we did a 2500 DDG (technically we can't do a DD but we can do a DDG, welcome to the world of licensed property) we would sell it as a single. There is no way to offer one box everybody wants and no way to offer multiple boxes that sell single-digit copies of each combination.
===
Starbase:
- - -
SVC: Use the 2400. Starbases cannot be done to scale (not without spray painting a dinner plate gray) and don't have any external details, so we don't need a new mini at all; the 2400 will do fine. As for stats, yeah, those are easy.
===
Monitor or some other Auxiliary if warranted.
- - -
SVC: A 2400 monitor exists. It is not a good seller and I don't see anything but lost money doing a 2500. As for "other auxiliaries" I'm unclear what others exist. The standard "auxiliary" ships are made on freighter hulls, and exist in 2400s which are the same scale as 2500 freighters, so there is no need to do them.
=
One of the Rom super heavy cruisers (Killerhawk or other?)
- - -
SVC; Now, that's an idea.
===
Romulan KDR
- - -
SVC: The Klingon D5 is already there, but I suppose one with etched feathers might be fun.
====
Romulan K7V and KDV
- - -
SVC: Those are carriers, and won't sell to ACTA or Starmada or even FedComm players, as such, they may have to wait until fighter rules are published. For the time being, the Klingon version exists in 2400s.
=====
Would it be too far off the reservation to suggest a Parts Pack for all the empires? Saucers, Booms, Nacelles and Hulls
- - -
SVC: We're one of very few companies that ever did these. (I think we might have been the first to do so.) We mostly did the small parts (engines as sensor dishes) because if you want a saucer, it's actually cheaper for you to buy the ship.
====
Klingon F6, E5, Federation NCL, pol, Gorn DD, Romulan King Eagle, Orion OK6, Orion Double Raider,
- - -
SVC: Those already exist in both 2400 and 2500.
===
Gorn FF/Pol
- - -
SVC: Could be an interesting ship as it doesn't exist in 2400s, but then, it's so similar to the DD and would be such a poor seller that there seems no point in doing a separate mini. I guess you could use a 2400 Gorn DD as a 2500 Gorn FF.
===
Tholian DD, CA, PC
- - -
SVC: Exist for 2400 and are in process for 2500.
Here's some details there. We got masters that were missing phasers from the CGIs we had approved. So, the first option is to ask Bruce if he can add them to the masters. If not, we'll have to have Mongoose do them over from the CGI level.
===
Neo-Tholians, Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, Seltorians, Vudar, WYN
- - -
SVC: Exist in 2400 and will be done in 2500 when we do all of that empire.
===
Peladine, Carnivon, Paravian, Frax.
- - -
SVC: Might do them someday. Might do them in a scale that would work for both 2400 and 2500 since they won't sell well enough to do two sizes.
===
Kzinti POL
- - -
SVC: Externally identical to Frigate, which exists in both 2400 and 2500.
===
Hydran POL
- - -
SVC: Well, this was a poll for 2500s and since Hydrans' haven't been done for 2500s yet it's kinda moot. Anyway, it's a ship not done for 2400s that might be worth doing sometime. But it's going to be a double-bad-seller. Hydrans well 20% what Feds sell (if that) and no player needs more than one or two police ships.
===
PFs, Fast patrol ships, Gunboats.
- - -
SVC: These will be done during 2014; one size will work for both 2400 and 2500.
===
Fighters
- - -
SVC: These already exist for 2400s and those will be used for 2500s.
===
PFTs for any empire
- - -
SVC: Not sure about those. They're low-sellers (you only need one for your empire, at most two) and in some cases the existing CW is 90% identical. I might comment that gunboats don't exist for FC, Starmada, or ACTA so we might reconsider that after they're in all four tactical game systems.
===
Heavy Freighter (four pods)
- - -
SVC: Mongoose was working on this but given the weak engine issues with the other 2500 freighters I don't think what they have will work at all anyway. It would have to be redone with bigger engines on stronger struts. Which is not a deal breaker, and this is a "missing book one ship" and it would sell nicely for both 2500 and 2400 since they're the same size. So that's a good bed.
===
Scouts
- - -
SVC: bad sellers, generally, since each player needs only one or two. I'd rather sell you sensor dishes and let you roll you rown.
===
Drones, and plasmas
- - -
SVC: Already exist for 2400 and work just fine for 2500. It would be pointless to do new versions for 2500.
===
Tournament Command and speciality ships...like Wyn's tourney ships...etc...
- - -
SVC: You'll have to be more specific.
====
Will the stands fit the mega maps or will we need new bigger maps?
- - -
SVC: Dunno. The bigger 2500s need the bigger stands, which cost around eight to twenty times what the little black stands (used for 2400s) cost. I am not sure what we're going to do about stands when the current Mongoose-stock runs out.
===
Pioneer and Commando Eagles would be really cool if they had extendable landing gear!
- - -
SVC: I can offer no hope such a thing would ever be done.
===
Klingon B10
- - -
SVC: Mongoose was in the middle of making this. We're researching to see where it stands.
===
Other battleships (Romulan, Kzinti, Gorn)
- - -
SVC: These will eventually get done, but don't ask me (today) when. We don't know what will be in ACTA Book Two yet (battleships might or might not be part of it) which might make a difference. Battleships are already in SFB, FC, and Starmada.
===
X-Ships, particularly the Fed
- - -
Not much point in doing just the Fed X-ship. SFB has X-ships but ACTA, FC, and Starmada do not. I suspect that this is 2015 or 2016.
===
Can more ships be added to a revised ACTA book one point two?
- - -
SVC: We do not plan to do so.
===
I'd like to see "What if" ships..?
- - -
SVC: You have to convince me that they will sell. Consider that it costs at least $100 and maybe $300 or more to get any given ship to market. Hey, maybe we'll have a deal where you sponsor your favorite ship by paying that cost?
===
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Stec
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,

It occurs to me that it might be an interesting experiment to get some experience with Kickstarter before Tribbles and Klingons, and see if some people would be willing to Kickstart a miniatures project or two?

If you need to do 6 prototypes per mold to make masters, what about this idea:

Do PFs, pack them in a new style box of say of half a dozen of each of 6 Empires.

So you'd get 6 of each PF for:
Klingons
Kzinti
Lyran
Rom
Gorn
Hydran

You could do 3 of each type to keep the price down if needed.

This way you don't get stuck with the slow sellers, and buyers could always sell off their excess PFs they don't want, generating a secondary market as it were for them.

Otherwise, you risk getting stuck with many PFs that sell slowly, as you have already learned in the past.

This way, you and the customers will get some experience with Kickstarter, and some possibly low selling miniatures get produced.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
djdood
Fleet Captain


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 2918
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vibe I have gotten is that PFs are already on the "going to happen" list. It's not a question of funding them - there seems to be enough pent-up interest from the SFB crowd to make them happen.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Cole wrote:
Hydran POL
- - -
SVC: Well, this was a poll for 2500s and since Hydrans' haven't been done for 2500s yet it's kinda moot. Anyway, it's a ship not done for 2400s that might be worth doing sometime. But it's going to be a double-bad-seller. Hydrans well 20% what Feds sell (if that) and no player needs more than one or two police ships.


CLARIFICATION -
The Hydran Gendarme was sculpted by Tony Thomas and put into production as a SL2400, a few years back. If that is the Hydran Pol (and I believe it is), than this one is already available in SL2400.

If it would be worth doing scaled up a bit in SL2500 is the boss' call.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Federation Commander Forum Index -> Starline 2500 All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group