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Federation Commander A NEW fast paced board game of starship combat!
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mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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junior wrote: | The rules for tractoring a friendly ship work differently than the rules for tractoring a hostile ship. Unfortunately I don't remember them off the top of my head and I don't have my rule book handy to double check them. |
The only difference is that if Ship A tractors friendly Ship B, then Ship B cannot fire weapons in the Offensive Fire Phase, and cannot launch seeking weapons in the Launch Phase. _________________
Federation Commander Answer Guy |
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Mike Fleet Captain
Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 1675 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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So, if two friendlies with the same speed and same baseline cost tractor each other, their speed is reduced to 0 as long as they remain tractored?
That still costs each ship only 1 energy point. If they were moving at 24, it would cost them 3 points apiece to decel and not move at all during an Impulse. |
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mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Mike wrote: | So, if two friendlies with the same speed and same baseline cost tractor each other, their speed is reduced to 0 as long as they remain tractored?
That still costs each ship only 1 energy point. If they were moving at 24, it would cost them 3 points apiece to decel and not move at all during an Impulse. |
Correct, however they have far more movement options, too.
When they are decelerating, they can turn when they are eligible to. So, if they had already moved three hexes, they turn in sub-pulse three. Also, they can elect to not decelerate if things change. And, of course, they don't use a tractor.
When they are tractored, only one ship may accelerate that IMPULSE. The other ship may not accelerate, and thus, may not turn. It costs double movement to accelerate, too. Assuming both are heavy cruisers, that means they are burning two points of energy for the acceleration. (In fact, if the movement rate of the two ships is 1, then the two ships combined would only save one point of energy.)
I am NOT saying this is a worthless tactic. Far from it; I could see it being used. However, it is not a game breaking tactic, either. It gives some advantages while imposing disadvantages. All told, I think this tactic will have a fairly narrow range of use. (That is not an insult.)
I am not seeing a problem here. I am, however, seeing the beginnings of a tactics note ... _________________
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Mike Fleet Captain
Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 1675 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
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I didn't take your explanation as any kind of insult. Perhaps you were joking about that.
As a matter of fact, I appreciated your clear explanation of the entire concept.
If you want to write a tactics note about using mutual tractors to force a speed 0 situation for two friendly ships until whenever they want to resume normal movement during a Turn, go right ahead. I'm not interested in writing such a thing. My main interest is in writing scenarios and perhaps a little fiction that goes with THE GAME.
Which reminds me, I hope the pieces I submitted didn't get lost during the ADB move to the new building... |
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mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Mike wrote: | I didn't take your explanation as any kind of insult. Perhaps you were joking about that. |
No, I was serious. It is hard to get the right "inflection" using text, and I didn't want it to sound like I was saying the tactic was worthless.
Quote: | Which reminds me, I hope the pieces I submitted didn't get lost during the ADB move to the new building... |
If you send something to Steve and do not get a response in a week or so (sometimes only a couple days, depending on deadlines and such), send him a followup email. _________________
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Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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junior wrote: | The reasons that the Frigate might grab the Battleship in such a situation include
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3.) Keep the Battleship from performing one of several actions that cannot be performed if the ship has been tractored. |
Does anyone have any examples of such actions? I thought an enemy ship being tractored was under no restrictions as per (5D6c).
I know that his manoeuvre will be more restricted, but that's about it, surely? _________________
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mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Correct. The only restrictions are the movement related ones given in (5D6b). _________________
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junior Captain
Joined: 08 May 2007 Posts: 803
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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You can't go into Evasive Maneuvers if you've got a tractor beam attached to your ship (and similarly you can't be tractored if you're using EM).
iirc, that's probably the most important restriction. |
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Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Good point, Junior; I'd forgotten about that. Thanks _________________
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Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:08 am Post subject: |
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A few new tractor questions, if I may.
1) Ship A is Speed 24, Ship B is Speed 16. They are both move cost 1.
Ship A tractors Ship B and, because it spent 24 points on movement, controls the movement of the linked pair. So far, so good.
Ship A now performs an emergency decel, for whatever reason.
Who now controls the movement? Ship A did spend more points on movement, even though he later got some of it back [for shield reinforcement only], through ED. And if Ship B controls the movement, speed will be 8, yes? because his baseline speed is reduced one level...
2) What is the upper and lower limit for tractoring terrain features? You cannot tractor planets or moons (5D3a), but you can tractor asteroids (6B5e) to tow them. I take it that asteroid hexes in and of themselves cannot be tractored; they're just dust and pebbles. So tractoring an asteroid hex would not slow your ship down, whereas tractoring a medium asteroid like in The Coming of the Meteor or like the Tholians do, will indeed slow the ship. Am I right here?
3) When tractoring a medium asteroid as in (6B5e), I assume that the 8 points has to be applied over the entire turn? Or can I apply the 8 points in one impulse and move the rock and thereby have done with it?
4) If I'm being tractored early in the turn, and use negative tractor, does that negative tractor power stay with me for the rest of the turn even if I lost the auction? And can I add more power to the negative tractor later?
For example, Ship A tractors Ship B, and there is an auction. Ship A spends three points on tractor, Ship B spends 2. Result: Ship B is tractored. Ship A then releases Ship B, who is then subject to a tractor attempt later in the turn by Ship C. As I understand things, Ship C needs to apply three points of tractor energy to establish a tractor beam at that point. Now let's say Ship B wants to avoid that tractor; can he now apply an extra point of neg tractor to his already existing two points, meaning that Ship C now has to apply four points to establish the tractor?
5) Can you 'switch off' negative tractor power? For example, in the example above, the unfortunate Ship B suffered a lot of damage at the hands of Ship A, and an allied ship, Ship D, wants to tractor Ship B away and out of danger. Does Ship D have to apply more tractor power than Ship B's neg tractor power, or can Ship B 'switch off' [and thereby lose] his negative tractor power? _________________
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Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Please can I 'ping' this thread and read what the answers are for my questions above? _________________
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mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, missed these after getting work under control.
Kang wrote: | 1) Ship A is Speed 24, Ship B is Speed 16. They are both move cost 1.
Ship A tractors Ship B and, because it spent 24 points on movement, controls the movement of the linked pair. So far, so good.
Ship A now performs an emergency decel, for whatever reason.
Who now controls the movement? Ship A did spend more points on movement, even though he later got some of it back [for shield reinforcement only], through ED. And if Ship B controls the movement, speed will be 8, yes? because his baseline speed is reduced one level... |
Quite frankly, I don't think it ever occurred to anyone that a ship holding another ship under tractor would perform an Emergency Deceleration. Well, if someone wants to try, then, yes, Ship B suddenly starts to control the movement, and will have a base speed of 8.
Quote: | 2) What is the upper and lower limit for tractoring terrain features? You cannot tractor planets or moons (5D3a), but you can tractor asteroids (6B5e) to tow them. I take it that asteroid hexes in and of themselves cannot be tractored; they're just dust and pebbles. So tractoring an asteroid hex would not slow your ship down, whereas tractoring a medium asteroid like in The Coming of the Meteor or like the Tholians do, will indeed slow the ship. Am I right here? |
OK, I will have to check with Steve, but I am of the mind to say that if you tractor a medium asteroid while moving faster than base speed zero, the tractor will break on your next move, just as with a base (5D3b). To move a medium asteroid, you must tractor it at base speed zero and pay for acceleration (at eight points of energy per hex). That should fix most of the "towing medium asteroid" questions.
Quote: | 3) When tractoring a medium asteroid as in (6B5e), I assume that the 8 points has to be applied over the entire turn? Or can I apply the 8 points in one impulse and move the rock and thereby have done with it? |
I had thought of it as more of an acceleration. So, theoretically, you can choose speed zero, tractor the asteroid, move one hex on impulse #2, drop the tractor, and be free to do whatever the rest of the turn. I suppose it would be more reasonable to require the tractor to be maintained over the whole turn, but I hesitate to do that. I think requiring the base speed zero will be restrictive enough.
Quote: | 4) If I'm being tractored early in the turn, and use negative tractor, does that negative tractor power stay with me for the rest of the turn even if I lost the auction? And can I add more power to the negative tractor later? |
Yes and yes.
Quote: | 5) Can you 'switch off' negative tractor power? For example, in the example above, the unfortunate Ship B suffered a lot of damage at the hands of Ship A, and an allied ship, Ship D, wants to tractor Ship B away and out of danger. Does Ship D have to apply more tractor power than Ship B's neg tractor power, or can Ship B 'switch off' [and thereby lose] his negative tractor power? |
It doesn't say so, but, yes, you should be able to drop the negative tractor. If you do drop it, it is lost. You can't "turn it back on" later.
I will send these in to Steve, but not until after he gets done with Briefing #2. If he changes anything, I will make a followup post. _________________
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Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: |
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mjwest wrote: | Sorry, missed these after getting work under control.
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Yes, I thought that was what it would be. Thanks!
mjwest wrote: | ... I am of the mind to say that if you tractor a medium asteroid while moving faster than base speed zero, the tractor will break on your next move, just as with a base (5D3b). To move a medium asteroid, you must tractor it at base speed zero and pay for acceleration (at eight points of energy per hex). That should fix most of the "towing medium asteroid" questions. |
Now that would be a nice and clear rule. And it would break the tactic I was thinking of, which would be to grab the asteroid with a tractor in order to get a cheap decel.
mjwest wrote: | I had thought of it as more of an acceleration. So, theoretically, you can choose speed zero, tractor the asteroid, move one hex on impulse #2, drop the tractor, and be free to do whatever the rest of the turn. I suppose it would be more reasonable to require the tractor to be maintained over the whole turn, but I hesitate to do that. I think requiring the base speed zero will be restrictive enough. |
Also clean and fair - and fits with the interpretation above.
Quote: | 5) Can you 'switch off' negative tractor power? |
mjwest wrote: | It doesn't say so, but, yes, you should be able to drop the negative tractor. If you do drop it, it is lost. You can't "turn it back on" later. |
Turn off=lost, yes, absolutely. Thanks.
mjwest wrote: | I will send these in to Steve, but not until after he gets done with Briefing #2. If he changes anything, I will make a followup post. |
Cool. Thanks for all your hard work on this, Mike _________________
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Kang Fleet Captain
Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 1976 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Ok, another question if I may.
A ship is under tractor from an enemy ship. Can the tractored ship, at some point later in the turn [or even next turn], attempt a counter-tractor, the winning of which auction would then give him the control of the beam?
In other words, does a counter-tractor attempt have to happen when the enemy's beam is first attached, or can it be initiated later? _________________
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mjwest Commodore
Joined: 08 Oct 2006 Posts: 4071 Location: Dallas, Texas
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Before answering your question, I want to point out that "counter-tractor" only applies when two ships are trying to tractor the same thing. When a given ship is fighting off a tractor attempt on itself, it uses negative tractor. (Of course, once it wins with negative tractor, it can turn around and establish a tractor of its own for what would be the same power cost.)
To actually answer your question, yes, negative tractor can be used at any time, not just when the tractor is established (or over the turn break). _________________
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