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Dropping evasive maneuvers over a turn break
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 1960
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Dropping evasive maneuvers over a turn break Reply with quote

Perhaps I have misunderstood the rules on this, but as far as I can see, a player has to maintain evasive maneuvers for at least two impulses.

Therefore, if a player begins evasive maneuvers at, say, the end of Impulse #2, the earliest he can drop EM is the end of Impulse #4.

However, what happens over a turn break? Say I declare that I'm beginning EM at the end of Impulse #7, do I have to maintain EM until the end of Impulse #1 of the next turn? And, if so, do I have to pay for EM again at the start of the next turn?
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TJolley
Lieutenant Commander


Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2D4d "Evasive Manuevers do not continue into the next turn...."

You may pay to continue EM at the beginning of the next turn, but this counts as as the one time you can adopt EM for that turn (also 2D4d)
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Dallas, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJolley is correct on both counts.

Note that paying for EM at the very beginning of the turn not only counts as the one allowed activation, but also resets the two impulse delay. This means that if you continue EM over a turn break, you cannot drop it until Impulse #3.

(Though the timing will be slightly different. If you start EM on Impulse #1 normally, you won't be able to cancel EM until the Speed Change Phase on Impulse #4. However, if you continue EM over a turn break, then you can't cancel EM until the Speed Change Phase on Impulse #3. This is because of when the EM is "started".)
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems to be one of those instances where, in spite of the intentions of streamlining the rules, a little complication is almost necessary.
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Kang
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Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting posts by all contributors; thanks guys.

Can I ask, why is there a two-impulse delay anyway? No doubt there is some fudge tactic that the rule is designed to thwart, but I'm not aware of it Smile

Or perhaps it's just because my brain is switched off for the season.... Wink
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Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the 2-impulse delay for coming out of EM is there because EM is such a good defensive tactic. Just imagine ships being able to EM their way right up to enemy ships and then drop EM and fire all in the same Impulse. At least with a 2-impulse delay the enemy has time to plan for whatever is coming.

It could also be because it just takes time from when the commander orders it to be done until the time it actually happens.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
Perhaps the 2-impulse delay for coming out of EM is there because EM is such a good defensive tactic. Just imagine ships being able to EM their way right up to enemy ships and then drop EM and fire all in the same Impulse. At least with a 2-impulse delay the enemy has time to plan for whatever is coming.

It could also be because it just takes time from when the commander orders it to be done until the time it actually happens.


Hmm. That kind of makes sense, except that it's not so much that you need to notify the other players that you are going to drop EM, it's just that you have to keep it up for two [or effectively three] impulses. In effect, they can do the thing of just flying right up to you and then dropping EM, but then you will both get a chance to shoot anyway.

I particularly like that a unit doing EM can't fire anything at all, not even with a penalty. Nice and simple.
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junior
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two impulse break means that the ship doing EM has to plan ahead. And given the fact that the difference in "optimal firing range" for ships of different nations is often only one impulse worth of movement (or less), it means that the other player is aware of the fact that you're using EM, and can plan with the knowledge that they're not going to get their optimal shot on the initial approach.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell you what, I've just re-read the rules and noticed the bit about making the announcement in its correct context. So now all the rules make sense Embarassed

Thanks guys for giving me the correct prompts.....
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Patrick Doyle
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Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two tactics your can try to get around the the 2 impulses that you are required to continue EM. Both work well and I have used them to surprise people. One caveat I always say, there are also disadvantaged to these tactics, so you must do them at the right time and under the right conditions for them to be useful.

(1) Impulse X: Your enemy maneuvers for a shot against you. Then you Declare Evasive. Next, your enemy fires. Because you are evasive, you don't take quite as much damage (perhaps he doesn't even fire).

Impulse X+1: During Pay for Acceleration, you declare that you are performing Emergency Deceleration (Also know as "Hit the Brakes and He'll fly right by"...). As per 2D4d (last sentence) Evasive maneuvers are cancelled. Now you can fire and hopefully the enemy has moved out of position. Because you are stopped, you can also perform a Tactical Maneuver (2D1).

Don't do this if there is a big pile of drones that will hit you IF you stop.

(2) Declare Evasive during Impulse 8, then on Impulse 1 of the next turn you are no longer evasive if you don't want to be.
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jmt
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done option 2 quite alot, but I hadn't figured out option 1. Thanks. Cool

Going evasive on impulse 7 or 8 is a good way to minimize damage from the "I've not fired yet and its the end of the turn so what the heck" effect.
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Patrick Doyle
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, assuming you have nothing better to do with the power, or have any power left.
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Kang
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's another thing, which is not fully clear from the rules, nor from our exchanges here.

It seems that this two-impulse thing is a two-sided rule.

Firstly, it seems that once EM is started, it must be maintained for at least two impulses.

Secondly, it seems that if I'm doing EM and I want to drop EM so I can shoot, I have to announce that intention and then wait two impulses before I can shoot.

Are both these interpretations correct? I'm really confused here; I have just had a Tholian CA drop EM right behind my Juggernaut and pop my vulnerable engines based on a short EM drop delay - we were struck by the ambiguity of the original rules which is not really helped by the Briefing #1 single paragraph. In the interests of sportsmanship I elected to let him take his shot, but it still hurt Crying or Very sad
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mjwest
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, under normal circumstances, you must make the announcement to drop Evasive Maneuvers (say, impulse #3) two impulses before it does drop (impulse #6, in this case).

Note that there are two exceptions:
- If an evasive ship performs an emergency deceleration, Evasive Maneuvers are dropped immediately.
- If the turn ends, Evasive Maneuvers will stop at the beginning of the next turn (if it is not continued during energy allocation).

So, unless your Tholian opponent did this at the end of the turn, you should have had a two impulse warning between when he announced that Evasive Maneuvers were to stop and when they actually did.
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Vladimyr
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so I'm clear, there is no way to actually be evasive for the direct fire phase of Impulse #1, and still be able to fire on Impulse #2. Is this correct?
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