Feasibility of SFB/FC over Roll20.net?

[Itharus]

So a hard no then?

I hear you, and I'll honor it.

Unfortunately SFBOnline is kind of a service that lacks appeal. There are multiple virtual table top services and programs that are perfectly capable of playing SFB/FC that cost the same or less than SFBOnline and aren't limited to two game systems. They also have thriving communities with much better means of locating players and organizing campaigns. And there's more of them every other year. SFBOnline is insulated, little-known, and the service is expensive for what it offers - all of which make for considerable barriers to entry for online play of SFB/FC.

I'm not trying to be insulting (although I realize I might have failed, and I apologize for that if so), it's just these are some hard truths about the state of online TT gaming as it stands today. There are a great many options now available and many of them are good.

As it stands, my options for distance play and exposing new people are: SFBOnline, and Play By Email. I can't even convince the folks I play with IRL to use the former while SARS2 sheltering in place is in effect, and the latter literally involves sending files so I wouldn't do that with strangers at all. To top it off I have trouble finding anyone who actively plays in local game stores.

Aside from travelling many miles looking for tournaments or hot spots, I have no idea what else to do other than just play infrequent games with the two folks I know that regularly play in person. It's frustrating. I was hoping to use this to get people to bite and try the game. It's a hobby I enjoy.

[cnuzzi]

You should reconsider SFB/FC Online. It has advantages that Roll20 and similar services lack - namely, it is specifically designed to play SFB and FC, and all the laborious setup you would have to do to get those games to work in Roll20 has already been done for you. Also, it automates many things, such as the placement and removal of turn and slip markers, etc.

For a few extra dollars you can get an account that lets you play both FC and SFB, so if you ever decide to cross the "Borders of Madness" you can play SFB as well. I just joined myself (literally days ago), and there is a nice group of players forming via the Federation Commander Facebook group. Maybe I'll see you there!

[Itharus]

I already lightly-tested (by myself) the game on Roll20. It works fine. It lacks the automation but that was never a concern. I also don't use Facebook.

SFB/FC Online is a 2 game system that has the same cost as a platform that supports nearly infinite systems. I have been completely unable to get anyone to try it out, whether my friends in person or my friends online. No one that I know is willing to jump into that as a starter point, and the people who have experience would rather just play it on a platform they already subscribe to. I was willing to give it a shot but there's not much point in that solo.

When I was floating the R20 idea recently to my friends they were interested, as were people on a number of discord servers I am in. I had 7 people who wanted to try it out and 2 who were on the fence by the time I stopped looking as of my last post (this is in addition to the two friends I play with in person). Of note - I did not fish for games on roll20.net at all.

To me that was wonderful. I don't drive due to visual impairment, so I can't feasibly travel to the places that have been listed on the ADB site and certainly can't make any tournaments (my wife would have to drive me and we have a small child and work to manage). So this was sort of my last hurrah. To be honest, I'm almost sorry I asked instead of just doing it, lol. Damned honor always gets in my way.

When it comes down to it, what I was hoping to accomplish was nothing less than some online evangelism for the game on a popular platform. I am admittedly disappointed that I can't do it.

I 100% whole heartedly support and encourage anyone who is on the fence about SFB/FC Online to go ahead and do it, especially if you have friends willing to jump in with you. But for my particular purposes it's less viable.

Also, as an odd note for ADB: of the 9 random people I had on the hook - 5 of them were interested the most in Hydrans. The reasoning is beyond me, but apparently people enjoy their concept. I did *not* mention my preference for Lyrans to any of them

[Steve Cole]

SFBOL-FCOL works fine, is continually updated, is what we have, and being under our control means if an update is needed it happens quickly, not whenever somebody puts it on a to-do list. We have had no trouble recruiting players and keeping them happy. There is no benefit to supporting a rival platform. Fractionating the playerbase is a route to extinction, so we're sticking with what works.

[Itharus]

I've already confirmed that I won't run any r20 games, so no worries there.

Although I'm honestly curious why you see r20 as a rival or think that they would divide the player base.

R20 does not require any partnership for games being played on it, all the work and updated material is provided by the players for the players and has nothing to do with r20 itself. It's just a virtual table top service - it provides the table (it even does so for free if you just care to be a basic player). They have a few partnerships, but they are not required and don't limit what games can be played at all. Given that it only provides a place to play the games you produce - how is it a rival and not a facilitation?

As for dividing the player base - I would think it very likely to expand the player base simply by additional exposure that can include instructional and even viewable games if you set it up for that; it can easily serve as a virtual demo table. Not to mention that there's a game-hungry population built into r20 that may be ignorant of SFB products or have been warded off by the difficulties in finding online play (or a tutor).

For those who enjoy the automation, sharpness, and included functions of sfb/fcol, I doubt they'd be swayed to come over to r20 just to do more work. Honestly there's a real chance it might sway people away from r20 (after they've tried SFB/FC there) to go try sfb/fcol just *because* it has those functions. These games are heavy on record keeping, after all.

I just cannot grasp how allowing more avenues and more exposure to the SFB universe is possibly more harmful than eliminating all other avenues of online play. I'd imagine that doing so is actually one of the fastest ways to breed disinterest or resentment among those TT gamers who prefer their table tops to be digital.

My attempts with sfb/fcol with the social circles I travel in have failed utterly. So now I've got no options left without breaking my word or trying to weasel my way around it by using a different service - neither of which I am inclined to do. So for me, I'm basically doomed here; and that's a damned shame.

For what it's worth - you do realize that exactly this sort of thing with little to none of the respect for the material that I proposed is happening on several VTT services and programs already, right? There's even at least one with players that have flat out recreated the minis as 3D models and uploaded tons of SSDs and trackers and all sorts of things. Every single product you guys create is already obtainable in some version or the other through piracy if you're that kind of person and put in the effort. This war is already lost; but there are people like me who would like to do things the right way - and you're telling us "no", or you're pointing us down a single path that we either don't want to travel, cannot travel, or cannot make worth our while.

Anyway, I've said the last I can possibly think to say on this matter, so I'll stop here with the thread unless specifically asked something. And as mentioned previously - I will abide. I hope my comments have caused more thinking than anger or frustration. But if not, well, c'est la vie - and sorry for the blood pressure spikes or stress. Best of luck with sfb/fcol and I truly wish you to have a good week.

[Sebastian380]

While I did try other platforms for Fed Comm my decision to use FCOL and to support it with my dollars was based not only on the quality of the platform but the fact that I want to be part of the ADB and SFU games community.
I like the people that play SFU games and I've had great service and support from ADB and I want to do all I can to support this community.

To this end, I help Paul with the Ship Card Definitions (and I pressure him to add more cards as often as I can).
I find Fed Comm players on the facebook page and I train them on how to use the client. (four or five sessions so far).
I encourage my over-the-board players in Battlegroup Toronto to play on FCOL.

I list these things because the real issue for me isn't which client to use but the development of the SFU community. The things I've listed here are the best way I know of to develop a community of players.

Fair warning--if you log into the FCOL page you aren't likely to find a player--even if you do find a player lurking in the room he probably won't be able to drop everything to play for a couple of hours.

I make these suggestions to any Fed Comm fan:

Try the client and let Paul Franz know what you like about it and what you don't like about it. Explore the client and learn how to use it, then offer to show other players what you know.

Find players on the facebook page and set up an appointment to play. Once you have some basic client knowledge Fed Comm On line is a blast.

Post your results on the facebook page or on this bulletin board.

Best of Luck.
(BTW--you can find me on facebook (Sebastian Palozzi) and I'm happy to set up a FCOL training session with interested players. My schedule can get a bit jammed but I'll do my best.
See you on the hex-map.

[Steve Cole]

If half of the people play SFBOL and half play r20 then it's at least twice as hard to find an opponent. Players who have trouble finding opponents move on to other companies and other games. That is called corporate suicide.

There is nothing to be gained from r20 and everything to lose.