Federation Commander

Since the thread does not appear to have moved, I'll post this here (with apologies to Jean).

Some unfocused late night ramblings.

A couple of things come to mind. One is that races - species, empires, whatever - are made up of individuals. There will be pacifistic Klingons, bloody minded Q'Naaabians (one of the generally non-militaristic ISC peoples) and vegetarian Kzinti.

In the minority, certainly, but still there.

Societies are diverse. How many languages are spoken on Earth today? How many major - and minor - religions are there? The same will be true for all the other empires as well.

However, some concepts are not universal. The muslim world had no concept of the nation state until the European powers foisted it upon them after WWI, and they got along tolerably well without it for 1300 years or so.

Also, all empires have many things in common. They need farmers to grow food, architects and engineers to build stuff and keep it working, administrators and police to keep everyone in line, and somebody in charge to make the big decisions. And merchants, bankers (unless they have outgrown the use of money), scientists, doctors, artists, entertainers et.c et.c. And of course warriors to stop other empires from walking in and taking over.

Designing a society that differs from this model, but can still do complex co-ordinated stuff such as building starships, is a non-trivial challenge.

Another factor is civil conflict. This is rare to absent among the worlds of the Federation and the ISC but very common in the Kzinti and Lyran empires. The Romulans only had one civil war, but it was a big one.

Don't forget, the TV show was made in the '60s when the cold war was in full swing - for Fed - Klingon - Romulan think US-Soviet-Chinese.

You could play a parlour game with everyone else...

Gorns - Turkey, or maybe Japan
ISC - the UN
Kzinti - French. You think they're on your side...mostly...
Tholia - Finland, but different weather
Hydra - the UK (or, having been defeated twice and come back twice, perhaps Germany?)
Lyrans - Cuba (Klingon lackeys).

This is all great and amazing info.

Thank you ALL!

Also about moving this thread won't it get more foot traffic in it stays in general discussion? I know whenever I visit forums I usually only muck around in GD.

Getting back to the topic:

After the Federation who is the 2nd largest economic power? Who are the Klinks in Hydran space? Kzinti I remember from the Star Fleet Command game back in the day only controlled something like 3-4 star systems right?

Would Federation Ships be ranked 2nd best overall-military wise? Who has the crappiest ships? (apart from WYN, Orions, Gorn)

Somebody is All wet....

Here is the real translation....

Federation: United States

Klingons: A combination of Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany

Romulans: China

Kzintis: Imperial Japan

Gorns: West Germany

Tholians: Israel

Orions: The Mafia

Hydrans: Britain/UK

Andromedans: totally alien, no parallel

Lyrans: The Arab world in general

LDR: Lebanon

ISC: The UN (disconnected from reality)

Steve Cole wrote:Hydrans: Britain/UK

Great we got the dirty, rotten, methane breathing Hydrans.

Then again we got all the stingers

We are Hydrans! NO ONE LIKES US! do you support millwall dan when i spoke to steve cole in the uk a couple of years back he said the romulans where based on the romans?

markgeorgetwo wrote:We are Hydrans! NO ONE LIKES US! do you support millwall dan

No, but most Hydrans do You're right, that's *exactly* where I got that from!

Great we got the dirty, rotten, methane breathing Hydrans.

Oh don't you start. It's bad enough with Tony Thomas doing the trash-talk nonsense.

Like the Lyrans aren't just Kzin who failed the height requirement...

He left out the WYN?

I'm guessing ... Iceland or Belgium?

Switzerland... playing all sides against each other.

The Andromedans are Australian bunyips. Nobody knows what an Andromedan looks like. Nobody knows what a bunyip looks like. Coincidence? I think not.

After the Federation who is the 2nd largest economic power? Who are the Klinks in Hydran space? Kzinti I remember from the Star Fleet Command game back in the day only controlled something like 3-4 star systems right?

Would Federation Ships be ranked 2nd best overall-military wise? Who has the crappiest ships? (apart from WYN, Orions, Gorn)

The Klingons are the second largest, of course. There are two superpowers in the game, the Federation and Klingons.

The Klingons in Hydran space are from the period when the Klingons and Lyrans had conquered the Hydrans. They put colonies of ethnic Klingons there, and when the Hydrans re-conquered their own territory those Klingons effectively became Hydran subjects.

Kzinti have a fairly large area of space, about as big as the Gorns IIRC, a heck of a lot more than 3-4 star systems. Star Fleet Command is not SFU canon in that respect.

No, Federation ships would not be second-best! Class for class, they're better than their main opponents (the Klingons) up until the C7 comes out, and even then, the BCG/L/J and C7 very comparable. The Kzinti ships are weak during most of the time period covered by the Star Fleet Universe, but with faster drones become very competitive, especially in fleet actions. Gorns are the same, up until the General War being somewhat undergunned, but during the War they get better until they're as good as everyone else's, if not deadlier. The crappiest ships is a toss-up... the WYN had little to work with, but when you take the effects of the WYN Radiation Zone into account, they're more than deadly enough. I'd say that the Romulan Old Series ships are the worst, but the Romulan New Series are amongst the best. The Klingon-Romulan Kestrels are good, but cloak poorly, making them not as good as the New Series (IMO).

Roddenberry based on the Romulans on the Romans, but provided very little detail. I set them up geopolitically as the "sleeping dragon" Chinese.

Scoutdad wrote:Switzerland... playing all sides against each other.

They can't be Switzwerland because they are too poor. Switzerland has the highest GDP and GNP per capita in the world after Abu Dhabi and Luxembourg.

That's right Switzerland is the richest country in the world. Even richer than the US (Its humorous how most Americans think we're the richest country in the world when in fact we're below most of the smaller European countries in per capita wealth in the 30 something rank)

The average Swiss is 5-7 times richer than the average American thanks to its status as a tax haven, inviting business and investment climate, and sophistcated banking system.

I highly doubt the WYN - basically a bunch of outcasts and refugees- can match that economic wealth.

DorianGray wrote:I highly doubt the WYN - basically a bunch of outcasts and refugees- can match that economic wealth.

Actually, they can.

The WYN cluster is immensely wealthy in the context of natural resources. That is why the neighboring powers all tried to conquer the Cluster at one point or another.

Don't let the "rag-tag" fleet fool you: The WYN were lacking production facilities to build ships, NOT the wealth to pay for ships. Notice the "fish ships": once the WYN finally procured a full shipyard, they started producing a lot of high-quality ships. They produced many more ships than their size would ordinarily justify because of their immense wealth of natural resources.

I don't know that the WYN are or are not the Swiss. They are wealthy, however.

Switzerland has the highest GDP and GNP per capita in the world after Abu Dhabi and Luxembourg.

That's right Switzerland is the richest country in the world

Umm, does that not make it the third richest? After Abu Dhabi and Luxembourg?

I'd rather think of the WYN as a pre-earthquake Port Royal. Cuttroats, outcasts, pirates, and lots of, ahem, nightlife.

Economically, the WYN are a lot like some of the Middle Eastern emirates. Immensely wealthy from natural resources that other nations want, but initially lacking the infrastructure to do anything with that wealth. In the WYN's case, they had the Usurper driving their internal politics, so the wealth was directed into building up industry and the Orion shipyard so he could have ships to first defend the cluster and then conquer Kzinti space (again?). The modern emirates tend to blow the wealth on "frills" (747's, the Burj Dubai, etc.).

After the Federation who is the 2nd largest economic power?

After the late 2560s, the ISC (at which time it had expanded to the extent shown on the map).

Its on-map territory is smaller than that of the Klingons, but the Concordium has the advantage given by the Distant Zone - the largest off-map area of any Alpha Octant power.