Federation Commander

If we can come to an agreement of what power, plus Maesrons, we want to attack first, I can begin helping with ship cards immediately. But I would really love to have a finalized plan (or at least have something close to solid) before I start in.

I'm extremely interested and excited to see this project go somewhere. I think that's obvious; most artist-type folks wouldn't spend their valueable free time working as hard as they can trying to match the fine production values of the existing ship cards...just for playtesting. They'd be looking for paying jobs. And I think that shows how excited I am and how much I'm invested to see this thing through.

So let's all come to an agreement and see what could be a fantastic product all the way through.

Jean definitely wants lead time. And this must be scheduled to not conflict with another big release. Materials will have to be checked because it is coming out under the ADB, Inc. name and that name means quality. Ask SVC about how many fixes he makes to Ship Cards because I fuss when we are not consistent. I want PH-1, not PH1 or Ph-1 or any other variant. Numbers go on certain tracks; they don't on others; warp engines get numbers in a certain pattern. All of this has to be checked and that takes time.

The realities of publishing have been the hardest things to come to terms with for me. Possibly is possibly, not probably or will. A limit is a limit and sometimes there is no wiggle room. Sometimes you must make hard choices and leave something out that you want.

You do this so there will be a next product where you can continue the story you want to tell. You make it affordable and something that the player can convince his SO won't break the bank.

Gary, my very best professional advice to you is to make the first twelve count. Make this product strong with that first release. Don't get so many new rules that people are overwhelmed. I hear from customers that they like the fact the game is quick to learn. Don't throw too many new rules at them.

Get them hooked on the Omegas and they will come back for more. Then you tell more stories and give them more ships and easily digestible rules chunks. If they want more, faster, you can be sure you will hear from them and SVC. Then you will feel the pride and joy in having created something that will last.

Are Omega BPV ships balanced against those from the Aloha... er... Alpha Quadrant. I wonder, so in the future, when we want to duel or run a campaign game, can someone choose to take an Omega race and not have it be whack out of balance?

ericphillips wrote:Are Omega BPV ships balanced against those from the Aloha Quadrant.

I would love to live in the "Aloha" Quadrant!

I think that points are pretty much points, but the nature of the game is such that there will be imbalances among empires. I'd say in a campaign the Omega empires should be balanced against Aloha empires on the whole.

Sorry, dreaming of Maui again.

I was going to do a nice long message on how the various FC modules have worked, but it doesn't matter, and I don't have the time. The short version is that nothing I have said has anything to do with "R-section order", or anything like that.

Also, I hadn't heard the idea of doing two of these modules simultaneously. Once Steve sees how many rules are involved with each and every single one of the Omega empires, I imagine it will stop, too. Regardless, I strongly recommend not counting on it, and make sure each batch of 12 ships can stand on its own.

So, for batch #1, I still want to see two major empires that fight each other a lot. The standard FC structure is DN,BCH,CA,CW/CL,DD,FF. That gives six ships for two empires; full fleets for each. However, it is quite common for empires to not fill all six slots. In that case we can add a third empire, but it needs to interact with both of the two main empires. Bonus points for the fewest new rules that are needed.

Another thing to keep in mind when selecting the empires: They should not have wazoo technology. So, I am sure the Shadows and Faeries (or whatever they are called) can be ignored pretty easily. I have been pushing the Maestron, as they seem to be the keystone empire. But, if their technology is going to be too hard to translate (aren't they the ones with the wild missiles?), then maybe a new candidate is needed.

Also, I don't care whether the empire is mammal, reptile, rock, liquid, ghost, ethereal, wind, avian, computers, parasites, insects, or whatever. All that matters is:
1) They are a major empire that matters.
2) Their technology is easy to handle in FC.
3) Their ships are interesting to fight in and against.

Oh, a separate (but related) question for the Omega experts: How different are the various phaser types out there? Do they have different rules of operation, or are they just phasers with different charts? Or can they be simply represented as phasers with different charts?

Couple extra thoughts:

For batch #2, assuming batch #1 is 5+5+2, then #2 could have two new empires, and the original two could have an extra "missing" ship (e.g. 5+5+1+1). That ties them together, and doesn't overload things.

Also, you won't be able to include nearly as many empires in a given batch because of the required rules. Remember that in Klingon Border, the Tholian and Kzinti ships were rules-free; they only used the rules already included for the Feds and Klingons. And even the Orions only needed a column for their special abilities. Same with Romulan Border: the Gorn were nearly rules-free, with but a single paragraph to handle the carronade rule within the overall plasma rules. From what I am being told, that just isn't going to happen with Omega. So, we need to plan for that from the start.

I've been watching this project since it first started and it's constantly held my interest. Coming from an FC player primarily (I played a total of two games of SFB before FC came out and none after,) I want ships that play differently. Without looking at it too much (Darn Omega Master Rule Book not having SSD's...) the FRA doesn't really offer that to me. I look at the FRA and think, fly in and photon whammy.
That said I think I like Mike West's 5+5+2 list and the idea that the FRA could be previewed with one or two ships in either CL or Communique since they would need the least amount of rules to preview, plus that would be another way to draw attention to the Omega Sector. "Here's ships you know how to use, here's the setting they are intended for."

That said, I commend all the work that's gone into this project so far, and I want to see it come to fruition and succeed. At the very least, I printed up the Iridani playtest ship and weapon rules and am simply awaiting the return of the rest of my group from Pennsic to throw them at some Alpha ships and/ or some Andros. (In the meantime, I've thought about throwing them at some monsters or even the robot, just for the solo play.)

One last thing, if it comes out that a two files at a time release is not able to happen, I'd prefer to see File 2 first, with perhaps the Probr and Iridani switched with the Trobrin and Weapon card. That way you have the "good guys" with the Maesron and the "bad guys" with the Trobrin.

I'll revise my earlier opinion...

If one or two FRA ships could be introduced in either Communique or Captain's Log (S) it would be just about as effective as including them in the product- and would free up more slots for ships we haven't seen.

I really want ships I know something about included because opponents are hard to find out here on the Plains of Alabama... you say 'wargaming' and folks scratch their heads an look at you funny before asking if you mean Battlefield 2 or some other 'war game.' Playing solo with one ship requiring new rules is hard enough.

There are no end of reasons why a decision is made. Can we do two or three packs at once?

Sure, since there is zero production cost.

On the other hand, checking ship cards takes staff time, and no project (least of all one so unproven as this one) gets to shut down the entire company and take up all of its time for an extended period, so that would mitigate against a double release.

Then again, the "initial broadside bonus" would make releasing two packs at once a good idea, although that would mean that one of them was sitting here totally finished for weeks or months while the second one was being checked.

Then again, the "new rules overload" issue would mean that it might be better to not drive potential players away by giving them too much to digest at once. Another issue here is that the second any Omega product comes out (given that the rules are being written by amateurs and barely reviewed by overworked FC/SFB staffers who have other things to do) you can pretty much assume that there will be a flood of rules questions and the resulting errata. (There are two pages of Q&A and Rulings for the andros in Comm-56. Sheesh.) That is going to take up a bunch of time for the Omega Team AND the general staff. Releasing an Omega product is going to amount to a "committment" that the next two weeks of work by Mike West and the Omega Team (two at once means that the next MONTH of their time goes into that) will be taken up doing nothing but Omega rules fixes, and while Gary Carney may be wiling to make that "committment" Mike West may not be able to make it given his other duties.

I have no idea what the time frame for this thing is, so I don't know what else will be going on, but I always have another product in front of me, as does every other staffer. If Gary laid this thing on my desk today, I wouldn't even open the file until PD FEDS has gone to press (two or three weeks from now).

There are a few different points I want to try and raise, or address.


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*Many of the Omega empires (particularly among the first 11, which weren't dealt with as thoroughly as the following ten) have a somewhat limited array of ships which can operate in FC.

For one thing, many navies are missing (through accident or design) certain ship types and classes. For example, the Trobrin have no light cruisers or destroyers, the Koligahr have no BCH or CL, the Vari don't have a ship bigger than a BCH, and so on.

For another, with the exception of the Vari Command Cruiser and Wing Cruiser in CL23, no-one yet has any of their equivalents of Alpha Octant (or Magellanic Cloud) 'war' classes. There is a proposed 'Omega Warships' module for SFB which would look at this area, but until then there are only so many options on the table.

(In SFB, the most recent Omega module focused on gunboats, tenders and space control ships; which is fine for that game, but not quite so much for FC. Still, an Omega equivalent of Booster #92 could one day use some of the escort ships, perhaps.)

While this means you can cover certain empires' navies pretty quickly, it also means there is likely to be some room left over at various points in time...

(Much earlier in the thread, I went through some of the ships viable for various empires in FC terms, and tried to give an idea as to their power output levels. If you want to get an idea about what the empires I listed have to offer so far, please have a look at them.)


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*In terms of technology, things are helped somewhat by the spread of certain phaser types, and the adoption (through fair means or foul) of tachyon missiles to certain factions.

Wide-angle phasers (the closest to Alpha Phaser-1s) are used by the Mæsrons, Iridani, Drex, Bolosco, Hivers, Sigvirions and Qixa.

Microphasers (fire like a disruptor, have an increased plasma damage ratio) are on Koligahr, Loriyill and Bolosco ships.

Radiation phasers (never roll to hit, somewhat resistant to adjustments) are more limited, due to the radiation levels involved; only the Trobrin and Bolosco use them so far.

Quantum phasers (tailored for longer ranges, very resistant to adjustments) are on Ryn, Probr, Loriyill, Chlorophon, Bolosco and Singer units.

Particle phasers (highly variable damage output) are used by the Vari, Drex, Branthodons and Bolosco.

Antiproton phasers (lethal at short range, fairly ineffective beyond it) are used by Ymatrian and Worb ships.

It's hinted that the Paravians eventually adopt some antiproton technology, and that the Zosman Marauders use a whole range of other people's stuff; nether have formally published data.


In terms of missiles, the Mæsrons made shipments to the Bolosco, agreed to the Aurorans building their own under licence, and saw the Zosmans steal the technology for use on their ships.

These help reduce the rules load for certain empires somewhat; the Iridani use wide-angle phasers, the Aurorans eventually get to play with tachyon missiles, and the Bolosco both use missiles and operate various types of 'foreign' phasers (all as part of trade agreements with empires so armed; the initial treaty with the Probr and Trobrin bought PR and PQ tech, while the Alliance offered PWs and TMs, and so on and so forth).

Thus, the FRA need only one new rule (altered-scale photons) and the Bolosco and Iridani two each (FEBs and TIs, then FTBs and IWTs; assuming the use of pre-set Iridani modules and cargo-only Bolosco pods to start with) to get up and running.


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*As noted, the Omega empires are missing almost all of their 'war' classes. Given the relative lack of refits for most empires thus far, this means that many Omega navies are, in Alpha terms, comprised of 'middle years' ships.

Beyond that, it's worth bearing in mind that the effectiveness of Omega navies varies significantly, in terms of how such-and-such a class handles itself in combat.

For example, the Trobrin CA clocks in at 135, compared to 125 for the Auroran CLA, 122 for the Probr and 115 for the Mæsron. (The discrepancy is even bigger when you look at dreadnoughts; the 234-point Trobrin DSN and 236-point FRA DN contrast with the 209-point Probr and 175-point Mæsron offerings.)

One could argue that the lack of CL and DD options for the Trobrin is just as well; their top-heavy fleet faces opponents with more balanced arrays of ship classes.

Oh, and before one panics about the Mæsrons, bear in mind that while you could fly the ships at their point values (and use their standard TMs included), one might assume the lower points cost is intended to be off-set somewhat through the buying of better missiles.

If you want to take an Omega empire out to play, it might make a big difference as to exactly which empire you decide to go with...


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When it comes to the Probr, I've been thinking that the HEATs should keep their accentuated option, which would work in tandem with TAs; however, the re-targeting in mid-flight trick SFB HEATs can pull should be dropped for the time being.

The accentuation aspect of HEAT technology is likely to be far more important for the Probr to consider, given the way plasma operates in FC.

I'll try to re-work the PQ rules, and post drafts for the HEAT and TA, when I can. (Even if they are not used right away, it would be better to have them than not.)


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In terms of Ship Card checking, what if the process was alternated between each file?

Say, check cards 1 and 2 from file 1, then cards 1 and 2 from file 2, and so on.

That would mean the two files would end up being done more or less over the same period of time, with one at most waiting for the last two cards from the other file to be checked.

In regards to ship card checking/editing of rules/playtesting and other work, I don't see how splitting the work between two products simultaneously would be of any advantage. If you put all the effort into one product and get that out the door, then it's selling while you are working on the other. If you split it, so as to make both available at the same time, then your first release is delayed. In addition, some may see the two files as one product, and you'll get more price resistance. It's easier to sell one product at $X today and another at $X next month or quarter than it is to sell a product at $2X. You wind up selling the same amount of stuff but the customer's subjective experience is of a smaller commitment.

Given the plethora of new rules that will be introduced by Omega ships, perhaps an "Omega Reference Rulebook" may be necessary.

I wouldn't worry about an Omega Reference Rulebook for two or three years after the first product comes out, and at least six months after the sixth or seventh product comes out, whichever is later.

I've been following this - but pretty much just lurking. until now...

As a card checker... I can tell you that 2 for Omega 1, then 2 for Omega 2, then 2 for Omega ... and so on probably is not a good idea.

When Gorn Attack (for example) percolates to the top of the stack, we'll be looking at 16 or so ship cards (in two scales). Each of those 32 ship cards is based on an existing SFB ship nad will be very familiar to all of us.

It will still be three or four compete rounds of review / revision / re-review from all 10 or 12 of us. I know that it take me an average of 3 to 4 hours to review the cards each time around. that's 12 to 16 hours per product. Call it 10 to be generous then multiply that by 12 reviewers. That's 120 hous of pretty much volunteer time... wiht something as unfamilar as Omega you can probably double or triple that... then add in SVC's design / revision / re-design time...

I think it's going to be one product at a time, and the first will have to be a killer product that hooks everyone - or there will not be a second...