Federation Commander

ericphillips wrote:SPEED LIMITS: A unit is limited to taking a baseline speed no more than one higher the previous turn. Stopped and speed 0 can both choose baseline-8. Units can still accelerate on each impulse. A unit can still choose any lower speed without limit, even going from baseline-24 to 0.

At the risk of being pedantic, that speed limit will never be adopted. It is way too restrictive. It is significantly more restrictive than the SFB limit.

Anyway, Steve has already stated that speed limits will not be adopted at all. So, all of this is just how you want to build your own special home-made rule.

Assuming a more judicious speed limit rule, then the only real effect will be that ships will use speed 8 more often and speed 0 less often. (Since speed 8 should allow pretty much any speed.) Which isn't that big of a power deal. The one thing that would be curtailed is the use of emergency deceleration. Other than that, not too much.

I don't think you are being pedantic. In fact, this has nothing to do with children at all. But I get your point. Just making mine.

ericphillips wrote:I don't think you are being pedantic. In fact, this has nothing to do with children at all.

I don't think the word means what you think it means ...

Pedantic:
1: of, relating to, or being a pedant(see pedant)
2: narrowly, stodgily, and often ostentatiously learned
3: unimaginative, pedestrian

Pedant:
1 obsolete : a male schoolteacher
2 a : one who makes a show of knowledge
b : one who is unimaginative or who unduly emphasizes minutiae in the presentation or use of knowledge
c : a formalist or precisionist in teaching

I was going for #1 for "pedantic" and #2b for "pedant". I really fail to see how any of this (even, really, the obsolete definition) has anything to do with children.

[Just to prove, of course, that 1) I do know what the words I use mean and 2) I can be pedantic. (In this case, #1 and #2a.)]

ericphillips wrote: BTW: If you liked SFB when it first came out, speed limits were a part of it so it must have not been what turned you away. This is one rule that can be summed up into a sentence or two:

True, no individual rule turned me off, it's the cumulative effect that turned me off. Stuff that was not in SFB originally is in FC now. Adding all that was originally in SFB leaves us with more than what was originally in SFB.

You might need more sentances as well, as more rules get added you get more interactions and more complexity, for example;
- what about Tractors and speed limits - What speed can I choose over a turn break if my base speed is held back by a tractor.
-When you say choose speed higher than last turn, do you mean what the unit started at or ended at - e.g. does cloak affect it?
-What speed is a ship considered to start a game with?
-What about stingers, are they included? -what speed do they launch with?
-What speed was a reversing ship doing, can it go from 8 back to 16 forward?

They may seem easy questions to answer, but they need covering, it is the ever growing amount of rules and ever growing interactions between all new rules and old rules that kill games like SFB, and probably will with FC sooner or later. It is not just this one rule, new rules are being added at some frequency - 3 siginificant new rules (at least) have been added since hydran attack (ignoring empire specific stuff), this, plasma and sub-light would make another 3 with their ever increasing interactions.

I went to the pendanticist as a child. He would give me shots in rear and i would cry and cry.

I'm j/k with ya, I know the word.

mjwest wrote:It is significantly more restrictive than the SFB limit.

No, it is considerably less restrictive. You can go from 0 hexes per turn, to 16 hexes per turn (base 8, plus +1 each impulse). In SFB you could have gone to at most 11 hexes (a 10/9/10 plot). The next turn you could go as much as 24, which is slightly less restrictive (In SFB you could go 21 with a 19/18/19/20 plot). The next turn, like SFB, you are unrestricted. I'd say the rule set out comes as close to mimicking SFB as possible, given the base speed rules requiring multiples of 8 in Fed Com.

mjwest wrote:Anyway, Steve has already stated that speed limits will not be adopted at all. So, all of this is just how you want to build your own special home-made rule.

The history of SFB is filled with examples of things Steve said would "never" happen that he then later changed his mind on. The shorter history of Fed Com has its examples as well. This is one I think is worth the fight since it makes Fed Com an immensely better game with almost only the addition of a couple lines of rules.

mjwest wrote:Assuming a more judicious speed limit rule, then the only real effect will be that ships will use speed 8 more often and speed 0 less often. (Since speed 8 should allow pretty much any speed.) Which isn't that big of a power deal. The one thing that would be curtailed is the use of emergency deceleration. Other than that, not too much.

Yes, sure, if you completely neuter the most important aspect of the rule (the inability to go to max speed from a very slow speed), then yes it would have little effect, though even forcing speed 8 is better than nothing.

If you use the rule as Eric has laid out, you really get something.

The word "pedantic" has nothing to do with children AFAIK. A pedant is someone who is a nitpicker.

I'm guilty of using the ED tactic vs Eric in our PBEM game. I have 2 Lyran KJs and he has an ISC CS and a Rom KE.

I ED'd on impulse 8 of turn 1 to blast the CS. This ensured that there was no danger of a range 10 PPD blast. Eric held his PPD fire and I scraped away most of his front shield. His KE launched the plasma R at 14 hexes range. The next turn, I chose baseline 16 speed since I judged that I could still outrun the R torp and I wanted to maximize my discretionary power and have a turn mode 3 instead of 5. With a careful decel, I was able to end up impulse 1 at range 11 and we exchanged alpha strikes. We both had amazing damage rolls and 1 KJ has about 10 internals while his CS has about 25+ internals. Now I'm spending the rest of the turn running away from the R torp.

The KE does not suck when it is supporting a ship like the CS in a battle. Since I am spending turn 2 outrunning the R torp, he is guaranteed to be able to reload the PPDs by turn 4.

An acceleration limit would've somewhat changed the results of our battle. I probably wouldn't have been able to get 2 alpha strikes at range 11-15 and he would've been able to land a PPD volley at range 10 or less which would've resulted in 8 extra internals to my KJ. Plus I would've been forced to choose baseline 24 on turn 2 which would've sharply decreased my available power resulting in even more internals since I wouldn't have energy to battery away damage..

terryoc wrote:The word "pedantic" has nothing to do with children AFAIK. A pedant is someone who is a nitpicker.

I was j/k. I know what it was. I was trying to break the tension. Pedantic means dealing with feet, like "pedicure."

mojo jojo wrote:I'm guilty of using the ED tactic vs Eric in our PBEM game. I have 2 Lyran KJs and he has an ISC CS and a Rom KE.

And I don't blame you using it because it is allowed under the rules as written.

What's the Lyran KJ?

terryoc wrote:What's the Lyran KJ?

King Jaguar. The NCA.

It seems to me that there are two topics here:

a) fixing the Impulse 8 Emergency Decel gambit
b) making FC play more like SFB wrt speed

'a' seems easy: "A player who declares Emergency Deceleration may not accelerate for 4 Impulses." This imposes a minor penalty as the ship would be limited to speed 24 for Impulses 1-4 of the next turn but doesn't require setting a speed limit. There is already a "abuse the rules and blow up" rule for EM over the turn break so having another over-the-turn-break fix for ED would not be unprecedented.

'b' would greatly improve plasma and hurt the crunch races with their costly rearming, but I'm not holding out much hope. I think power curves are the real problem here moreso than acceleration limits. Even in SFB people would plot speed 15ish to preserve acceleration options so energy starvation and warp limits were what made plasma viable against skilled players.

We play on a megahexed 4230 map, fixed.

I usually get stuck playing Feds.

I always run speed 8 on the first turn, then close and hose at speed 24 on the next turn. It is predictable, boring, and effective. My opponents haven't found a good counter. I win far more than I lose and I take no joy in it. This is simply how the game encourages me to fly the Feds.

(My total SFB+FC experience is greater than theirs, which plays a part in my win/loss record)

This speed change limit would encourage me to go baseline at 16 on turn one, which would prevent me from fully overloading that turn. Next turn I can fly my old top speeds with partial overloads, or finish overloading but at a slower speed.

I like it.

It was made evident to me that many Fed Com players don't know what the Positron Flywheel is.

This is an OPTIONAL rule in SFB and unlike any other optional rule, it comes with the following warning -

NOTE: This rule is officially classed as

EDIT: Is someone editing this and then not leaving a note? I use preview and I see the entire message. I hit submit and see the entire message. I come back later and look and everything after "classed as..." is deleted.

If there is some rule the rest of the post violates, please feel free to delete or edit it, but please leave a note that you have done so. For now I'll assume it is intentional, as it has happened twice, and just give up trying to make this particular point.