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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:14 pm
by domingojs23
Just wondering, if one were to design a completely new race / sector for FC, with hopes of publication / acceptance by ADB, it would also have to be done for SFB ?

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:27 pm
by Bolo_MK_XL
Anything that makes it to FC would have to be accepted in SFB first -- then possibly make it into FC at a later period --

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:28 am
by Nerroth
I'll have a go at the pods first, since they seem to be the easiest to sort out.


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(3OW) BOLOSCO PODS

In comparison to the fleets of most empires in known space, the majority of Bolosco ships were designed from the keel up to act in a manner akin to the tugs and light tactical transports of other empires. With a range of small and large pods available for use, the capabilities of each pod-capable Bolosco ship could be adjusted - albeit at the cost of reducing the ship's turn mode.

(3OW1) GENERAL RULE
Most Bolosco ships may, if the owning player so chooses, begin a scenario pod-equipped. (The ship descriptions for each will specify how many pods said ship class may take, and of what size.) Each pod taken adds to the Point Value of the ship so equipped. While equipped to the ship, the module is considered part of the ship in question for all purposes.

(3OW2) POD OPERATION
With the following exceptions or clarifications, the usage of pods by an appropriate Bolosco ship operates using the rules for Tugs and LTTs outlined in (5T).
(3OW2a) Non-Cargo Pod Operations: While a pod featuring non-cargo boxes is attached to a given ship, any non-cargo boxes on the pod act as part of the ship for all purposes - calculating the amount of Energy Points available to the owning player at the start of each Turn, for example. Cargo boxes count as normal under (5T1).
(3OW2b) Dropping Non-Cargo Pods: If a Bolosco ship drops a pod with non-cargo boxes under (5T2a) said boxes go dormant and are treated as cargo boxes for all purposes unless re-attached to another Bolosco unit. If any unused Energy Points remain for that ship at the point in the Turn the pod is dropped, a number of Points equal to any Reactors on the pod must be removed from the running total - these Points are considered lost.
(3OW2c) Picking up Non-Cargo Pods: If a Bolosco ship drops a pod with non-cargo boxes under (5T2b) the non-Cargo systems synchronize with the ship's internal systems at the beginning of the subsequent Turn (prior to energy allocation). They may then be considered part of the ship for all purposes. Note that the Turn Mode of the carrying ship would be affected immediately after the pod is picked up, if it has not already been adjusted at this point (by the presence of a separate pre-attached pod, in the case of certain ship types).
(3OW2d) Carriage: On ships required to carry a pair of pods in a 'fore-and-aft' system as described in (5T2c), the inner pod must remain inactive (its non-cargo boxes treated as cargo). However, if operated 'aft' of another pod, any non-cargo boxes on the outer pod operate with no impediments. (For example, firing arcs on any weapons operating from the outer pod are not blocked by the presence of an inner pod.)
(3OW2e) Non-Bolosco Use: If a tug or LTT belonging to a non-Bolosco fleet attempts to carry a Bolosco pod, all non-cargo boxes remain inactive (i.e. are considered as cargo boxes) by the carrying ship. Thus no non-cargo-derived advantage may be gained by a non-Bolosco ship from said pods. (Note that Bolosco ships may pick up other empires' cargo pods, under the rules provided by (4T).)


(3OW3) TYPES OF PODS
There are a number of types of pods available for Bolosco ships in Federation Commander, as noted below.
(3OW3a) Large Cargo Pod: Most commonly seen in use by merchant ships, these pods allowed for a massive amount of goods to be carried along the Guilds' network of trade routes. Each such pod adds 8 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW3b) Large Battle Pod: This pod added offensive weaponry and additional power reserves to the ship operating it. These modules were mostly operated when a Bolosco ship acted as a mercenary warship, or when tasked with defending their home space. Each such pod adds 32 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW3c) Large Self-Defense Pod: Less offensively-oriented than the large battle pod, this design relied more on increased phaser firepower while retaining a degree of cargo capacity. It was most commonly used when a trade ship operated in a war-torn area, or perhaps a route troubled by Zosman Marauder pirate activity. Each such pod adds 16 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW3d) Large Support Pod: This pod offered a wider variety of features to the equipped ship, from an increase in transporter and laboratory capability to increased power and the inclusion of a pair of extra shuttles. When entering unknown space in search of new markets, this pod was more likely to find its niche. Each such pod adds 14 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW2e) Small Cargo Pod: The smaller counterpart of the large cargo pod, there were more Bolosco ships in service with the ability to carry one (or two) such units. Each such pod adds 4 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW2f) Small Battle Pod: These pods provided a more modest range of offensive options to a mounting ship alone, but were quite effective when mounted as a pair (on the few ships capable of operating two at once without having to treat one as inactive). Each such pod adds 16 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW2g) Small Self-Defense Pod: A pod of thus type offers a greater proportional increase of phaser firepower over its larger counterpart, but with a relatively lower increase in cargo capacity. Each such pod adds 9 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW2h) Small Support Pod: Another smaller counterpart to la larger pod type, this variation offered less systems to the mounting ship, but was more flexible in terms of what ship could carry it. Each such pod adds 8 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.
(3OW2j) Small Transport Pod: Used on Bolosco ships operating as de facto passenger ships, this pod was useful for those crews which didn't mind the company of living guests (as opposed to the relative quiet of inanimate cargo). Each such pod adds 8 points to the Point Value of the equipped ship.


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FTBs should be next.


EDIT: I saw the Guilds' logo was posted up for all to see! Yay.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:44 pm
by Steve Cole
It would be very hard to get a new empire accepted for FC or SFB, at least, in a formal product. In theory, a new empire could be done in communique, but that would be something like Frax with no new rules and not a real empire.

There's no particular reason either one would have to go first.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:04 pm
by Nerroth
The handy thing about the Omega setting - and, indeed, that for the Lesser Magellanic Cloud - is that they are both, in a sense, works in progress.


For Omega, there are a number of empires which are found in the timeline, yet which have yet to be formally published (or in some cases, even developed) for any game system. If you see the Omega: Lost Futures article in Captain's Log #36, you can see what Bruce Graw had in mind for some of these empires.

In the Cloud, two of the empires shown in the timeline (and on the LMC map), the Yrol Septs and Chomak Community, await publication also. Plus there was at least one space-faring power in the Core of the Cloud, which the early Maghadim crushed during their rise to prominence.

Plus, there is a wide range of empires shown on the preview map shown in SFB Module E2 - a preview pack for the Triangulum Galaxy. I don't know how much room at the inn for new stuff there is out there, though.


It might be a while before any of the three settings mentioned get any of these yet-to-be-published empires in print, even in playtest form - but at least the potential is there.



Oh, and in other news, I managed to dig my FC rules out of storage, so I hopefully won't be too long with a draft for the FTBs.

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:49 pm
by Nerroth
Okay then.


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(2O1T) FOCUSED TRACTOR BEAMS

An outgrowth of unique Bolosco tractor beam technology, the focused tractor beam is a dual-role system. When used as a direct-fire weapon, it applies a powerful kinetic blow against a target ship, which due to the nature of the weapon may inflict greater damage on a larger target than a smaller one. Alternatively, it can be used as a regular tractor beam, if the ship's captain so requires.

(2O1T1) GENERAL RULE
(2O1T1a) Ship Card: Each ‘FTB’ box on the Ship Card represents one focused tractor beam. It is disabled by a single point of damage, counts as a ‘tractor’ when using the Damage Allocation Table, and is repaired by four repair points.
(2O1T1b) Firing Rate: Each focused energy beam can fire once (and only once) during any given turn. It may not be used within 8 impulses of firing in a previous turn in direct-fire mode, or within 2 impulses if used as a tractor beam.
(2O1T1c) Ammunition: There is no need to keep track of “focused tractor beam ammunition� since these weapons are armed directly from the engine power grid.
(2O1T1d) Range: Focused tractor beams have a range of 25 hexes in direct-fire mode, and of 0 or 1 hexes as a tractor beam.
(2O1T1e) Use as a Tractor Beam: If not used in its direct-fire application, each focused tractor beam may operate as a standard tractor beam under (5D), with the exception that it may not generate "negative tractor" for the purposes of (5D6a). It may not operate as both in the same Turn.

(2O1T2) FIRING PROCEDURE
If used in its direct-fire mode, a focused tractor beam may be fired during the Offensive Fire Phase (1E2d) of the Sequence of Play. Use the following procedure:
(2O1T2a) Step 1: The player owning and firing the beam announces which weapon is firing (which must not be Disabled) at which target (which must be between zero and twenty-five hexes away).
(2O1T2b) Step 2: The player owning and firing the energy beam pays two Energy Points to fire the weapon as a standard load, or six Energy Points to fire the weapon as an overload. Overloaded shots have greater damage potential but a shorter range.
(2O1T2c) Step 3: The range is calculated (3A5). If the target is out of range, the weapon cannot be fired.
(2O1T2d) Step 4: One die is rolled for each focused tractor beam being fired in direct fire mode. Cross-reference the result using the focused tractor beam table, based on the range, size class of unit targeted, and whether an overload has been applied or not. The result of the die roll might be adjusted (4A) by various considerations including Evasive Maneuvering (2D4) by the target or by (5L2) Orion Stealth coatings.
(2O1T2e) Step 5: At the point when the target ship may choose to reinforce its shields under (3C5), it may also attempt to use any available tractor beams of its own, to attempt to counteract the tractor force of the beam itself. Each Energy Point applied in this manner reduces the amount of damage caused by the beam by one. Any remaining damage points would then be applied as normal.
Example: An Bolosco merchant cruiser fires an overloaded focused tractor beam at a Trobrin heavy cruiser. The Bolosco rolls a ‘1’ to hit at range 5, which (upon matching the range found to the size class ship targeted, and the modifier applied via the use of an overload) would score eight damage points. The Trobrin ship uses two Energy Points to mitigate the impact via one of its remaining tractor beams, thus reducing the impact to six damage points.


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Sorry if it's a little clunky.

I left out the critical overload feature, since the closest equivalent in Alpha (the fusion beam's suicide overload) doesn't have its equivalent here either.

EDIT: Thanks to Mike, I managed to find the negative tractor thing. But, rather then echoing the difference in SFB (where the IWT can produce double negative tractor points, to counter-balance the FTB limitations), might leaving both systems at standard negative tractor levels in FC even out?

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:54 pm
by DirkSJ
Suggestion:
Remove Bolosco and their 2 custom rules plus their pod rules. The two cards freed up by this could be either two small weapon rules cards or one large. If weapon cards are not counted in the 24 ship limit then add a BB (or preferably cut 2 more ships and add 2 BBs from classically enemy races).

Five races is simply too much and all those rules at once are not keeping with standard FC release practices. Having weapon cards is amazingly helpful.

I would also suggest, in keeping with FC's "simple is better" idea, that TM's cost be set per rack and entire racks always have the same kind of TM's. FC does not have rules for launching specific drones from specific load slots or any such like SFB. Perhaps on the SSD there can just be a 4-box with the 4 types and at mission start for each rack you mark what kind they all are and pay the BPV necessary for the entire rack.

It should also be noted in the TM rules that every TM on the board's type is known by all players. There is no labbing of drones in FC to determine what they are. This may even be an argument that all racks on a given ship should always be the same. FC is about simple and straightforward.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:40 pm
by Nerroth
DirkSJ wrote:Suggestion:
Remove Bolosco and their 2 custom rules plus their pod rules. The two cards freed up by this could be either two small weapon rules cards or one large. If weapon cards are not counted in the 24 ship limit then add a BB (or preferably cut 2 more ships and add 2 BBs from classically enemy races).

Five races is simply too much and all those rules at once are not keeping with standard FC release practices. Having weapon cards is amazingly helpful.
Klingon Border introduces five empires in one go - plus Distant Kingdoms does the same for four more, technically at least.

I agree that once the first couple of modules were out, trying to stick with, say, three new empires at a time would be good, I believe that the introductory modules need 4-5 each to get the Octant up and running.

I'm not rushing to the idea of casting the Bolosco aside. They might have somewhat fiddly tractor rules to get sorted (I still want to get around to posting up a draft for the IWT system) but they still have a role to play - not least when acting as mercenaries in other fleets.

(For example, I wanted to keep the Auroran DN in reserve, alongside the other ships they built later on - so being able to hire a MC or MD would be a way for the Republic as presented to compete with the larger ships from rival empires... or from the Andromedans, for that matter.)

Plus, the only two battleships available are on the list already - the Iridani MW and the Mæsron BB.
I would also suggest, in keeping with FC's "simple is better" idea, that TM's cost be set per rack and entire racks always have the same kind of TM's. FC does not have rules for launching specific drones from specific load slots or any such like SFB. Perhaps on the SSD there can just be a 4-box with the 4 types and at mission start for each rack you mark what kind they all are and pay the BPV necessary for the entire rack.
That's not a bad idea - though it might get expensive that way. (A rack of upgraded missiles would cost 9.75, 13.5 and 17.25 points respectively.)
It should also be noted in the TM rules that every TM on the board's type is known by all players. There is no labbing of drones in FC to determine what they are.
Oh, that wasn't my intent with the rules as they are currently - the selection of TMs, and which missile is being fired at which time, is known to both players.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:06 pm
by DirkSJ
Nerroth wrote:
I would also suggest, in keeping with FC's "simple is better" idea, that TM's cost be set per rack and entire racks always have the same kind of TM's. FC does not have rules for launching specific drones from specific load slots or any such like SFB. Perhaps on the SSD there can just be a 4-box with the 4 types and at mission start for each rack you mark what kind they all are and pay the BPV necessary for the entire rack.
That's not a bad idea - though it might get expensive that way. (A rack of upgraded missiles would cost 9.75, 13.5 and 17.25 points respectively.)
Without digging out my Omega rules, aren't the TM equipped ships a bit low cost for their "ship type" since they are assumed to be spending some BPV on their TMs? Like Hydrans and their fighters? If so then it's not too big of a deal to have those costs above. And you can always take the 0 BPV standard loads if your BPV budget doesn't allow for upgrades. If you do the full rack idea it may be worthwhile to round those figures as well.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:45 pm
by Nerroth
Let's see about the IWT.


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(3OT) INTEGRATED WARP TRACTORS

During their time in operation among the stars of Omega, the ships of the Bolosco Merchant Guilds earned a reputation as the masters of tractor beam technology. Perhaps the most telling example of this mastery can be found in the integrated warp tractor system, which most Bolosco ships used in place of standard tractor beams. In addition to its function as a (superior) tractor beam, each IWT offers a flexible range of options, each showing a different aspect of tractor beam application.

(3OT1) GENERAL RULE
(3OT1a) Ship Card: Each ‘IWT’ box on the Ship Card represents one integrated warp tractor. It is disabled by a single point of damage, counts as a ‘tractor’ when using the Damage Allocation Table, and is repaired by four repair points.
(3OT1b) Tractor Beam Operation: With the below exceptions, integrated warp tractors operate using the rules outlined in (5D) for standard tractor beams.
(3OT1c) Range: In all modes, the integrated warp tractor has a maximum range of two hexes, rather than just one.

(3OT2) INTEGRATED WARP TRACTOR OPERATIONS
(3OT2a) Tractor Beam Use: When used as a standard tractor beam, integrated warp tractors have a reduced cost of operation; when used at ranges 0 or 1, 1/2 of an Energy Point produces one point of tractor force, or one Energy Point per point of tractor force at range 2.
(3OT2b) Negative Tractor: When used for the purposes of applying "negative tractor" under (5D6a), each Energy Point applied in this manner counts as two points' worth when determining whether or not the enemy tractor link is broken.
(3OT2c) Tractor Crush: An enemy target held in tractor may be "crushed" by the application of tractor power. If the target has been held in a tractor beam for at least one Impulse, the Bolosco ship may elect to apply a tractor crush during the Offensive Fire Phase (1E2d) of the Sequence of Play. The Bolosco ship expends three Energy Points if the target is at range 0 or 1, or 4 Energy Points if the target is held at range 2. For each shield facing possessed by the target, roll a die and subtract 1 from the total; this is the amount of damage applied to each facing. Once the crush attack is made, the tractor link is broken.
Note: Units which have only two 'facings', such as most Andromedan units, only roll two dice, one per side. Shuttles, drones, tachyon missiles and Hydran Stingers roll only a single die.
(3OT2d) Tractor Punch: The integrated warp tractor is capable of focusing its energy into a directed punch. Note that this should not be confused with the direct-fire application available to a focused tractor beam (201T).
If fired in this mode, the tractor punch is made during the Offensive Fire Phase (1E2d) of the Sequence of Play. The Bolosco player determines if the target is in range and within the integrated warp tractor's firing arc, pays two Energy Points, then rolls a die and adds two to the result. If the result is greater than the effective range to the target, five points of damage are applied to the facing shield.
(3OT2e) Pressure Field: The integrated warp tractor may be used in a wide-angle mode, creating a pressure wave which smaller units cannot penetrate. the pressure field may be activate in the Other Functions Step (at the same time that standard tractor beams may be operated), costing four Energy Points. For the next four Impulses, or until the Turn ends (whichever is less) the field takes effect in all hexes within the firing integrated warp tractor's firing arc out to a range of one hex. Any shuttles, drones, tachyon missiles and Hydran Stingers within this field is held in place (relative to the location of the operating ship) for the duration of the field's effects.

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I skipped the warp shunt mode for now - but I may go back to it if it's needed. (Not sure if the pressure field should stay, either.)

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:48 pm
by Nerroth
DirkSJ wrote: Without digging out my Omega rules, aren't the TM equipped ships a bit low cost for their "ship type" since they are assumed to be spending some BPV on their TMs? Like Hydrans and their fighters? If so then it's not too big of a deal to have those costs above. And you can always take the 0 BPV standard loads if your BPV budget doesn't allow for upgrades. If you do the full rack idea it may be worthwhile to round those figures as well.

One could argue that ships of the Alliance (and Confederacy) depend more on buying better TMs, but it might be less of a requirement for FRA or Bolosco missile chuckers.

In terms of rounding off, maybe 10, 14 and 18 points for M-, T- and L-era missile sets?

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:04 pm
by DirkSJ
Nerroth wrote:
DirkSJ wrote: Without digging out my Omega rules, aren't the TM equipped ships a bit low cost for their "ship type" since they are assumed to be spending some BPV on their TMs? Like Hydrans and their fighters? If so then it's not too big of a deal to have those costs above. And you can always take the 0 BPV standard loads if your BPV budget doesn't allow for upgrades. If you do the full rack idea it may be worthwhile to round those figures as well.

One could argue that ships of the Alliance (and Confederacy) depend more on buying better TMs, but it might be less of a requirement for FRA or Bolosco missile chuckers.

In terms of rounding off, maybe 10, 14 and 18 points for M-, T- and L-era missile sets?
If rounding probably glance back at the TMs as designed and round in the same directions you rounded stats. Like if you had to round up a bunch of things to fit FC rules, round up the net cost. Or if you had to leave a bunch of empty TM spaces per missile maybe round down.

Playtesting is probably the real way to tell.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:09 pm
by Nerroth
All of the missile frames were pretty filled up for the era of missile done up. There was a little wiggle room thrown in in terms of making sure the missiles matched FC speed conventions, but that would make me more likely to round the cost of each trip up, not down.

In any case, having missiles that are (marginally) too expensive beats making them too cheap.


(Of course, if it ends up that all non-standard missiles get thrown off the table, it won't matter anyway - so we'll see...)



Oh, I'll try to work out the Trobrin implosion torps - I need to go and double-check to see if all 4 sizes are in use for ships set for FC.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:00 pm
by Nerroth
Yeah, they are.


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(2O3A) IMPLOSION TORPEDOES

The heavy seeking weapon used by many ships of the Trobrin Empire, implosion torpedoes operate in a manner somewhat akin to plasma torpedoes. However, rather than impacting at range zero, an implosion torpedo detonates at range one from the target, directing the force of its implosion towards the target unit. Like plasma torpedoes, there are several types of launcher available - from the light torpedoes found on board the smallest patroller to the super-heavy torpedo found on the largest Trobrin warships and bases.

(2O3A1) GENERAL RULES

With the following exceptions listed below, implosion torpedoes operate in the same manner as plasma torpedoes, as described in (4J).
(2O3A1a) Ship Card: Each implosion torpedo launch tube on the Ship Card is marked IT-? where the final letter indicates the specific type (i.e. maximum type) of implosion torpedo that tube can create. Certain tubes have more than one damage box noted on the Ship Card; these are damaged and repaired separately. The torpedo launcher remains fully operational until all of its boxes are disabled, and is available to arm once more once at least one box is repaired. Each individual box counts as a ‘torpedo’ when using the Damage Allocation Table, and is repaired by four repair points.
(2O3A1b) Firing Rate: All types of implosion torpedoes require three turns to arm and may be launched (or held) on the third Turn of arming.
(2O3A1c) Ammunition: As with plasma torpedoes under (4J1c), there is no need to keep track on "implosion torpedo ammunition".
(2O3A1d) Types of Implosion Torpedoes: There are four types of implosion torpedoes.
Super-Heavy Implosion Torpedoes: These are the largest type of implosion torpedo, found on large units like the Trobrin deep space dreadnought. It is denoted as IT-S on a Ship Card.
Heavy Implosion Torpedoes: More commonly seen on Trobrin cruisers, these are denoted as IT-H on a Ship Card.
Medium Implosion Torpedoes: Mainly used by Trobrin frigates, these are denoted as IT-M on a Ship Card.
Light Implosion Torpedoes: Found on the diminutive (for a Trobrin) patroller, these are denoted as IT-L on a Ship Card.
(2O3A1e) Tracking Arcs: As with plasma torpedoes, implosion torpedoes have tracking arcs designated on their Ship Cards. The arcs in question are listed on the Cards in question.
(2O3A1f) Seekers only: Note that unlike plasma torpedoes, implosion torpedoes do not have a bolt mode, nor a carronade mode. They operate as seeking weapons only.

(2O3A2) ARMING IMPLOSION TORPEDOES
Implosion torpedoes are armed over a three-turn period by the ship's power grid. The amount of power required depends on the type of torpedo being armed. Any given implosion torpedo launcher may arm any smaller type of implosion torpedo. (For example, a heavy implosion torpedo launcher may arm a heavy, medium or light implosion torpedo warhead.)
(2O3A2a) Arming Procedure: Implosion torpedoes can only be armed during Energy Allocation (not later in the turn). During Energy Allocation of each of the three turns, the player must add the amount of energy required by the chart below:
Warhead Turn #1 Turn #2 Turn #3 Hold
S 2 3 6 3
H 2 2 4 2
M 1 2 3 1
L 1 1 2 1/2

(2O3A3) IMPLOSION TORPEDOES IN COMBAT
Implosion torpedoes use the same procedures as plasma torpedoes under (4J3), with the following exceptions.
(2O2A3a) Minimum Distance: Unlike plasma torpedoes, implosion torpedoes cannot be targeted at an enemy unit in the same hex as the launching ship. It must move at least one hex before it can implode and affect a target.
(2O2A3b) Impact: Implosion torpedoes detonate at range one from the target, rather than range zero. The damage caused is equal to the amount listed on the chart for each type of torpedo and impacts upon the facing shield of the target unit. Note that the torpedo will only damage the target unit, and not any other units in the target hex or the implosion hex.

Torpedo Impulse of Impact
Type 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
S 47 43 39 35 31 27 23 19 15 11 7 3 0
H 31 27 23 19 15 11 7 3 0 0 0 0 0
M 23 19 15 11 7 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
L 15 11 7 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0



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With that, I have at least a rough draft - some rougher than others - of each weapon and system.

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:59 pm
by DirkSJ
Since you are going with the "like plasma but not" route I would suggest:

(2O3A2b) Upgrading: Implosion torpedoes, unlike plasma torpedoes, cannot be upgraded during later holding turns or at time of fire to larger versions.

Just to avoid people thinking they are like plasmas and you can do such things. I like the "it's just like plasma except" way of going about it. That way, while there are a lot of rules, many are feel like minor variations than entirely new systems.