Federation Commander

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:08 pm**

But in SFB, under (OFP1.22) you can do just that - underload a cheaper torp over the first two turns, then add in more power on the third turn (or if holding, on the turn you wanna fire it on) to upgrade the warhead.

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:02 pm**

Nerroth wrote:But in SFB, under (OFP1.22) you can do just that - underload a cheaper torp over the first two turns, then add in more power on the third turn (or if holding, on the turn you wanna fire it on) to upgrade the warhead.

I assumed since you hadn't written that into the rules above you were ommiting that ability

. So I amend the suggestion to be either specifically include how to upgrade or specifically outlaw it.

Given that the power costs in the first two turns are not the same across types it creates a lot of questions. Like if you spend 2/2 can you then spend 2 more (total 6) and make a M (total 6)? If you spend 2/3 can you then spend 1 to make an M or 3 to make an H?

Maybe in the interests of FC being "simple" the costs should be flatlined out to be more like plasmas: 2/2/7, 2/2/4, 2/2/2...leaving lights out like F's are left out. Then it's very easy to just point at the rule numbers for plasmas that talk about upgrading and that's that. And specifically outlaw upgrading lights (similar to how F's are not flexible outside fastload type loading).

It seems silly to have a very specific and differentiated load schedule and then say "but you can just load it how you like and upgrade it later".

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:16 pm**

Let's see, then:

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(2O3A2b) Upgrading: Like plasma torpedoes, implosion torpedo warheads in the tube and ready to launch can be upgraded at the instant of launch, or during the Energy Allocation Phase of a subsequent holding turn. This cannot exceed the strength of the firing tube.

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I guess since (4J2c) mentions bolting, which ITs can't do, it's just as well to add an explicit rule.

The above should be clear enough about lights, since you cannot exceed the strength of the tube.

Also, the SFB rules don't explicitly say whether or not you can down-fire a torp you've already loaded on the higher setting in the first two turns - or rather, that you haven't already gone over the warhead threshold with. So, I dunno if, for example, you can go 2+3 then add 1 to get an IT-M. I'd ask about it on the legacy BBS, but I might be better off waiting until after Origins to clear that up...

Posted: **Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:53 pm**

Nerroth wrote:-----------------------------------------------------------------

(2O3A2b) Upgrading: Like plasma torpedoes, implosion torpedo warheads in the tube and ready to launch can be upgraded at the instant of launch, or during the Energy Allocation Phase of a subsequent holding turn. This cannot exceed the strength of the firing tube.

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I guess since (4J2c) mentions bolting, which ITs can't do, it's just as well to add an explicit rule.

The above should be clear enough about lights, since you cannot exceed the strength of the tube.

I would suggest a few clarifications.

(2O3A2a) Arming Procedure: Implosion torpedoes can only be armed during Energy Allocation (not later in the turn). During Energy Allocation of each of the three turns, the player must add the amount of energy required by the chart below. The chart must be followed precisely as written for all three turns. On the final turn, however, additional Energy Tokens may be spent to upgrade an implosion torpedo to a larger size. This additional energy is equal to the difference in total energy between the type created and the type desired. A torpedo can never be upgraded to be larger than the given launcher could normally create.

Example: A Trobrin CC has been loading one of it's IT-H launchers and one of it's IT-M launchers both as type M torpedoes. On turns 1 and 2 it has spent 1 and 2 power respectively. On turn 3 it must spend 3 power for each to finish the loading them as type M implosion torpedoes. The Trobrin captain decides he would like to upgrade the type M in the larger launcher to type H. He spends 2 extra energy (totaling 5 this turn for that launcher) to account for the difference in total energy between type M and type H. Unfortunately his other type M torpedo is in a type M launcher and thus is at maximum size and cannot be further upgraded.

Code: Select all

Warhead    Turn #1     Turn #2     Turn #3     Hold     Total Energy
S          2           3           6           3        11
H          2           2           4           2        8
M          1           2           3           1        6
L          1           1           2           1/2      4

(2O3A2b) Upgrading: Like plasma torpedoes, implosion torpedo warheads in the tube and ready to launch can be upgraded at the instant of launch, or during the Energy Allocation Phase of a subsequent holding turn. To do this simply spend Energy Tokens equal to the difference in total energy (2O3A2a) between the current type and the desired type. This cannot cause the upgraded torpedo to exceed the strength of the firing tube.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:43 am**

Text added - with a slight revision to the example:

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Example: A Trobrin command cruiser has been loading one of its heavy implosion torpedo launchers and one of its medium implosion torpedo launchers; both as medium torpedo warheads. On the first and second turn each launcher has 1 and 2 energy Points spent on it respectively. On turn 3 each must spend 3 Energy Points, to finish loading as type M implosion torpedo warheads. The Trobrin captain decides he (it?) would like to upgrade the warhead in the larger launcher to a heavy warhead. To do this, he must spend 2 extra Energy Points (totalling 5 this turn for that launcher) to account for the difference in total energy between a medium and a heavy warhead. However, his other medium torpedo warhead is in a medium torpedo launcher, at the maximum size the launcher permits, so cannot be further upgraded

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I started up a word doc with the various weapons and systems all in one place - and while doing so, re-arranged their orders:

CHAPTER 3: Omega Weapons
3O1A: Omega Direct-Fire Weapons
3O1B: Omega Phasers
3O1C: Altered-Scale Photon Torpedoes
3O1D: Tachyon Guns
3O1E: Focused Energy Beams
3O1F: Implosion Bolts
3O1G: Focused Tractor Beams
3O2A: Omega Seeking Weapons
3O2B: Tachyon Missiles
3O2C: Implosion Torpedoes
CHAPTER 4: Omega Systems
4OA: Miscellaneous Systems
4OB: Target Illuminators
4OC: Iridani Modules
4OD: Integrated Warp Tractors
4OE: Bolosco Pods

(Both Phaser-Ws and Phaser-Rs are under the Omega Phasers heading.)

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am**

Seems like a lot of rules but it may be workable. That will be up to SVC. Worst case if it's too big then the Bolosco can be taken out. I know, I know you don't want to but...if its the difference between publishing it and not...

May as well shoot for the moon and ask for them to be included though.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:52 am**

True enough... time will tell.

(I suppose there are a number of ships one could plug the gap with, if necessary.)

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:26 am**

Nerroth wrote:
DirkSJ wrote:Suggestion:
Remove Bolosco and their 2 custom rules plus their pod rules. The two cards freed up by this could be either two small weapon rules cards or one large. If weapon cards are not counted in the 24 ship limit then add a BB (or preferably cut 2 more ships and add 2 BBs from classically enemy races).

Five races is simply too much and all those rules at once are not keeping with standard FC release practices. Having weapon cards is amazingly helpful.
Klingon Border introduces five empires in one go - plus Distant Kingdoms does the same for four more, technically at least.

I agree that once the first couple of modules were out, trying to stick with, say, three new empires at a time would be good, I believe that the introductory modules need 4-5 each to get the Octant up and running.

When you get down to it Gary, Klingon Border introduce 3 Empires (Feds, Klinks, and Kzinti) and previewed 2 other Empires (What 1 Orion and 2 Tholian) which all used the Same Weapons Phasers, Photons, Disrupters, Drones, and one could say Suicide Shuttles. Distant Kingdoms really is driven by the number of Weapon Systems in the Products it only added 4 new Weapons, Fusion, Hellbore, ESGs and Stingers. With those additional weapons they could add 2 Major and one Small Empires, lets face it the LDR is on the same card as the Lyrans is it really a "new" empire or just a new way to play the Lyrans.

So with that in mind maybe you need to stop looking at it as how many Empires you can cram into one product and look at it as, how many weapons systems can reasonably be assimilated before the next omega pack is introduced. Looking back at the Expansions it seems you need to introduce a max of 5 weapon systems and then pick the Empires/Ship Cards that give you the most bang for your buck.

Sticking with the Klingon Border/Romulian Border Model wouldn't ging with 3 Major Empires (FRA and Maestrom +? and throw in what ever qualifies as pirates) seem a more reasonable approach?

For that matter why not take the time now to go back and Write like a 4 page Guide / Intro on just the FRA and submit it to SVC for possiably being included in the next Captian Log like MJW did with the Early Years. Worst case maybe SVC will publish it in a Communique with a couple of ships once you get a buzz started then slam full force back in to the rest of Omega.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:18 am**

Dal Downing wrote:Distant Kingdoms really is driven by the number of Weapon Systems in the Products it only added 4 new Weapons, Fusion, Hellbore, ESGs and Stingers. With those additional weapons they could add 2 Major and one Small Empires, lets face it the LDR is on the same card as the Lyrans is it really a "new" empire or just a new way to play the Lyrans.

5, you forget PH-G. If one counts PH-G as a "minor variation, not a new system" then altered scale photons and omega phasers are also nothing new. They are literally the same system with either a different min/max load or a different firing table respectively. TMs similarly are just drones with different armor/speed/warhead in the proposed rules, no custom setups.

Removing those the proposed list is 5 races plus:
- Weapons -
Tachyon Guns
Focused Energy Beams
Implosion Bolts
Focused Tractor Beams
Implosion Torpedoes (could be reworked as minor variation on plasma)
- Systems -
Target Illuminators
Integrated Warp Tractors
Iridani Modules / Bolosco pods (rules can probably be mostly combined)

8 new rules one of which is mostly an old rule. Throw out the Bolosco and you lose two rules (plus the other half of pods). It is looking more and more like no Bolosco is the correct size/number of rules for the product.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:00 pm**

Remember that the FC version of an SFB rule needs to leave out as many fiddly exceptions, weird circumstances, and special cases as possible.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:54 pm**

Speaking of rule streamlining, would it be a major problem if the impulse delays between firing a weapon from one turn to the next went away?

For the example, from the current rules for Iridani FEBs:

(3O1E1b) Firing Rate: Each focused energy beam can fire once (and only once) during any given turn, and may not be fired within 4 impulses of firing in a previous turn.

This is in keeping with the 16-impulse delay the weapon has in SFB. (There are other weapons which currently maintain that kind of thing in the draft).

I forget if other weapons already brought over had similar restrictions dropped for FC already, though.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:58 pm**

The Seltorian Particle Cannon has a delay that lasts over turn breaks. It just fires twice a turn, in contrast.

EDIT: Rule (4P1b) "...can be fired twice a turn, but these firings must be at least 3 impulse apart. This delay extends over turn breaks; a given Particle Cannon fired on Impulse #8 of one turn could not be fired again until Impulse #3 of the next turn."

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:01 pm**

I can understand with the PC, since it can fire twice in a turn.

That would be an issue when the Vari particle beams (which can also fire twice per turn) show up, but I wasn't sure if weapons that can only fire once per turn needed to have that kind of impulse delay brought over.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:02 pm**

The FEB hits harder than a disruptor, so the 16 impulse delay helps mitigate that a bit.

Just like the Koligahr Antimatter Cannon has a 32 impulse delay, which it should really retain otherwise it's almost a photon firing at a disruptor delay.

Posted: **Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:04 pm**

Okay.

I've been going over a few things with Mike West, and wanted to put some of the things discussed here for consideration.

*I dropped the impulse delays for FEBs and others.

*A suggestion Mike had for the Iridani was to just stick with pre-set module allocations for each type of ship.

For the Caravel, Barque and Clipper, each would stick with Weapons modules in their lone mounts.

For the Galleon, one could assume the presence of a Weapons module and either a VIP or Command module. (I'm not sure which is better - the VIP module makes more sense in-universe for lone Quests, but the Command module would be more what a fleet commander might take.)

For the Brigantine, one option could be to give them one Weapons, one Command and one VIP module. (BGs are big enough to both make use of the command facilities, and to try and impress local dignitaries with the luxury suites.)

For the Man-O-War, I was thinking one Weapons, one VIP, one Command and one Hospital module. (THis would make the MW more of a multi-mission ship, perhaps able to use its modules' facilities to help support the rest of its fleet.)

If the above idea held water, the idea of running separate modules could be taken out and put into reserve, and the ships in question treated as they are on-table.

*I was thinking that one could have LDR-esque boxes to allow for the B-variants of certain ships - but on the other hand, perhaps these forward-firing variants could be useful as their own Cards elsewhere?

(Much as the SFB SSDs are free to download, perhaps the Bonnaventure variants could be a way to preview the Iridani fleet without taking away from the broadsiding dynamic of the standard ships of each class.)

*For the Bolosco, Mike suggested to stick with a cargo module (as an introduction at least) and use ships which can get by without the fun stuff.

Both the MD and MC are capable ships without the fancy pods, and both can take one large cargo pod - so that would be all you'd need to start off (using 5T if necessary, or ignoring the pods if not).

That way, the rules for better pods could be kept in reserve, to be wheeled out if needed when the time comes to fill out the rest of the Bolosco fleet.

*If the above changes were made, the number of rules on the list would be cut down somewhat.

*Indeed, I was just thinking; web was given only a cursory introduction (as snares) when KB was released.

If the full range of IWT functions were too much in one go, could a pared-down set of option for integrated warp tractors be enough to get by?

Say if you dropped the pressure wave and tractor punch. (The tractor crush is cooler, anyway.)

Federation Commander

Omega Conversion Project