Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:51 pm
Don't worry Lee, my Dominator crushing tactics are just on hold...
Federation Commander
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https://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=4759
Page 7 of 9
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:16 pm
Pfff the Gorns couldn't crush a potato waffle, heck they've not even crushed the Feds yet.
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:40 pm
I think the Cpt. and my self are looking for mutual destruction. Go to it Lads 
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:48 pm
Looking for an Andro victory! 
Next turn will be very interesting, it could all be decided on sequence of play 
Next turn will be very interesting, it could all be decided on sequence of play Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:16 am
There is a little snow here in Andro space, how are things in Gorn space? Are they likely to make it to the battle this week?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:35 am
Rumble in the Rubble; part 1
Last night saw the start of the big Andro vs Gorn battle in the asteroids next to the Fed home base.
Right from the start I knew I was in more trouble than I originally thought. I walked in and saw how open the map was. I had forgotten to bring my asteroid maps, and the map that was out had some noticeably 'open' areas. i was relying on a tight game to make up my big point deficit and general Andro weakness at this size of fight.
The Gorn brought to the fight:
BB
DNL
Scout
BCH *2
BC *3
CF *2
Orion BC (phaser boat).
The Andros have:
Dom
Int
Viper *12
We start at about 26 range, and both go speed 16. The Gorns have fully loaded their plasma. The Gorns have also appreciated that holding their scout back might be a bad idea, as it will leave it vulnerable to me displacing past the main fleet and killing it, so it stays with the main fleet, and at least force me to close with all his ships to get it.
We manoeuvre towards each other, and as we are getting close, a bit outside range 8 on impulse 7 I attempt to disdev the Gorn BB. With asteroids and Scout I will be on a 1-2, but go for it to try and disrupt the BB, or better yet put it somewhere bad. The disdev succeeds, and the BB is displaced towards me, but only by a couple of hexes, into some asteroids (it will have to hit some as it carries on). Had it come all the way out towards me I would have had a good chance of crushing it on the first pass!
On impulse 8 we reach range 6-8 from each others ships, passing each other on parallel courses. We each fire what we can (but no plasma from the Gorns). Asteroids mean I'm on a +2 (with his scout), and he is on a +1. I target the scout with everything. I don't expect to destroy it, but crippling it and slowing it down will be a good start. The Gorn commander shows a lack of confidence, not even expecting to take out a viper! My fire does cripple the scout, and leaves it not enough power to go speed 16 next turn. His fire does a vaporise viper as I expected.
My large ships also displace past his fleet to be some way behind him, whilst my vipers had declared EM for next turn.
So turn 1 ends not to badly for me, a viper for crippling his scout and making life harder for him the rest of the game.
Turn 2 sees me accelerate to speed 24, whilst the Gorn stays at speed 16, the DNL tractors the scout to pull it along. Not much happens this turn, having used my TR beams I just stay out of range under EM and pull round to be following behind the Gorn fleet at some range. The larger ships ram some asteroids and drop shields to pull in power during the turn. The Scout is released after a few impulses, and heads away from the main fleet.
Turn 3 I am still speed 24, the Gorns still speed 16. I'm probably about 15/16 away from the Gorns, and behind them. They are, however, in a somewhat more open section of the map. They start by turning, bringing me on to their number 3, and starts holding so as to keep closer to me, and avoid heading back into the denser asteroids. This time I send my bigger ships in first, I'm wanting to take the fire on ships that can take it better, then follow in with the vipers. Again I disdev the BB, and again it works, disrupting it (but again not moving it far). I misjudge the closing distances though, and find that half of his ships get a range 5 shot on me, rather then 6-8 (giving him better phasers and bolts, plus carronades). The INT and DOM exchange fire with the Gorn fleet, me hitting a Gorn BCH, and they target the INT. Again the Gorn commander is pessimistic about what he will achieve, but the INT is obliterated (ahd I had a scout it would have survived). I heavily damage the BCH. That is not such a good exchange, though my vipers are also about to strike. The Gorn, however, has only used half his fire-power killing the INT, they still have a lot of offside stuff left, and HET to bring it into arc, plus the BB is no longer disrupted and is still fully armed!
My Vipers close and get range 1 and 2 shots on center lines. I decide I'm going to target for cripples, I know I can't win a game of ship killing, but crippling multiple ships will, strategically, be a good result. Plus if he ends up with too many cripples whilst I have a domintator around then he may start to struggle. My vipers therefore target the 3 closest ships, the still pristine BCH and the 2 CFs. My fire power is not stunning - rolling a lot of 6s on the TRLs, but all 3 ships are well damaged, 2 are probably cripples and the other not far off. The return fire blows away 3 of my vipers. The Dominator had also attempted to displace to the Gorn scout, to finish that off with an used beam and phasers, but the displacement attempt failed
Having failed the displacement attempt the Dominator turns around and set off after the main Gorn fleet, as it is still early in the turn and he should catch them before turn end. The remaining Vipers, however, still have problems. The Gorn ships, and BB in particular, still had fire-power left out the back, and they were about to overrun the Vipers and kill another. My Vipers therefore turned sharp and ran, then later in the turn HET'd to pull back towards the Dominator in pursuit.
Right at the end of the turn the Dominator (having hit some asteroids to be ready for some power at turn end) caught up with the rear Gorn ships, and put his last TRH and phasers into the BCH he had hit earlier, that left that looking crippled. However, of crucial importance (and may yet be the decisive roll of the game), yet again his attempt to displace away failed! leaving him right next to the entire Gorn fleet as the next turn started.
Turn 5. Whilst the Gorn fleet had used up their HETs, there was no doubt that they would give serious consideration to another HET and fire at the DOM if they got the chance. Mass phasers and carrnodes could well have done him in. I therefore slammed on the brakes and went 24 in reverse. Assuming half his fleet failed HETs I would get away from enough of them, and behind an asteroid, and hence probably be safe (and with vipers following in to pick off some ships).
The Gorns realised that my 24 reverse made any attempt to go for the DOM very risky, and carried on away. The DOM reversed through some more asteroids, as he was now getting low on power. Max damage from asteroids almost gave me to much damage to handle with a power dump, but a quick EM cleared just enough battery space to allow a full dump of front and back into batteries, filling me up again. He then ED'd as both sides were fast separating. The vipers carried on chasing, but keeping the distance, as the had no TRLs this turn.
We had to leave it at the end of that turn, to be carried on next week. The DOM is now a good distance from the Gorns, with the vipers about half between them. I have lost 4 vipers and an INT, the Gorns have 2 BCH, 2 CF and a scout crippled or there about (a couple maybe not technically crippled yet).
It has been interesting game so far. As expected the Gorns have more than enough fire-power, once they are range 5, to vaporise even Intruders through asteroid shifts with only weapons from one side. A scout would really have helped me a good bit. His scout was clearly target number 1, forcing that to split from his fleet has helped a good bit in the big exchange. Taking on Gorns in asteroids should be about as good as it gets for Andros, but I'm still struggling, on the other hand I have to remember I am vastly outpointed, 2040 pts of Gorn to 1440pts of Andro, a 41% points advantage to the Gorns.
NB. Our campaign battles last a max of 10 turns, at which point the attacker is assumed to have withdrawn (forces the attacker to attack and stop the never ending game becoming a drag for those not playing). I can't beat the Gorns in that time. Even if I am doing well, and might win in a very long drawn out game, that isn't feasible here.
Last night saw the start of the big Andro vs Gorn battle in the asteroids next to the Fed home base.
Right from the start I knew I was in more trouble than I originally thought. I walked in and saw how open the map was. I had forgotten to bring my asteroid maps, and the map that was out had some noticeably 'open' areas. i was relying on a tight game to make up my big point deficit and general Andro weakness at this size of fight.
The Gorn brought to the fight:
BB
DNL
Scout
BCH *2
BC *3
CF *2
Orion BC (phaser boat).
The Andros have:
Dom
Int
Viper *12
We start at about 26 range, and both go speed 16. The Gorns have fully loaded their plasma. The Gorns have also appreciated that holding their scout back might be a bad idea, as it will leave it vulnerable to me displacing past the main fleet and killing it, so it stays with the main fleet, and at least force me to close with all his ships to get it.
We manoeuvre towards each other, and as we are getting close, a bit outside range 8 on impulse 7 I attempt to disdev the Gorn BB. With asteroids and Scout I will be on a 1-2, but go for it to try and disrupt the BB, or better yet put it somewhere bad. The disdev succeeds, and the BB is displaced towards me, but only by a couple of hexes, into some asteroids (it will have to hit some as it carries on). Had it come all the way out towards me I would have had a good chance of crushing it on the first pass!
On impulse 8 we reach range 6-8 from each others ships, passing each other on parallel courses. We each fire what we can (but no plasma from the Gorns). Asteroids mean I'm on a +2 (with his scout), and he is on a +1. I target the scout with everything. I don't expect to destroy it, but crippling it and slowing it down will be a good start. The Gorn commander shows a lack of confidence, not even expecting to take out a viper! My fire does cripple the scout, and leaves it not enough power to go speed 16 next turn. His fire does a vaporise viper as I expected.
My large ships also displace past his fleet to be some way behind him, whilst my vipers had declared EM for next turn.
So turn 1 ends not to badly for me, a viper for crippling his scout and making life harder for him the rest of the game.
Turn 2 sees me accelerate to speed 24, whilst the Gorn stays at speed 16, the DNL tractors the scout to pull it along. Not much happens this turn, having used my TR beams I just stay out of range under EM and pull round to be following behind the Gorn fleet at some range. The larger ships ram some asteroids and drop shields to pull in power during the turn. The Scout is released after a few impulses, and heads away from the main fleet.
Turn 3 I am still speed 24, the Gorns still speed 16. I'm probably about 15/16 away from the Gorns, and behind them. They are, however, in a somewhat more open section of the map. They start by turning, bringing me on to their number 3, and starts holding so as to keep closer to me, and avoid heading back into the denser asteroids. This time I send my bigger ships in first, I'm wanting to take the fire on ships that can take it better, then follow in with the vipers. Again I disdev the BB, and again it works, disrupting it (but again not moving it far). I misjudge the closing distances though, and find that half of his ships get a range 5 shot on me, rather then 6-8 (giving him better phasers and bolts, plus carronades). The INT and DOM exchange fire with the Gorn fleet, me hitting a Gorn BCH, and they target the INT. Again the Gorn commander is pessimistic about what he will achieve, but the INT is obliterated (ahd I had a scout it would have survived). I heavily damage the BCH. That is not such a good exchange, though my vipers are also about to strike. The Gorn, however, has only used half his fire-power killing the INT, they still have a lot of offside stuff left, and HET to bring it into arc, plus the BB is no longer disrupted and is still fully armed!
My Vipers close and get range 1 and 2 shots on center lines. I decide I'm going to target for cripples, I know I can't win a game of ship killing, but crippling multiple ships will, strategically, be a good result. Plus if he ends up with too many cripples whilst I have a domintator around then he may start to struggle. My vipers therefore target the 3 closest ships, the still pristine BCH and the 2 CFs. My fire power is not stunning - rolling a lot of 6s on the TRLs, but all 3 ships are well damaged, 2 are probably cripples and the other not far off. The return fire blows away 3 of my vipers. The Dominator had also attempted to displace to the Gorn scout, to finish that off with an used beam and phasers, but the displacement attempt failed
Having failed the displacement attempt the Dominator turns around and set off after the main Gorn fleet, as it is still early in the turn and he should catch them before turn end. The remaining Vipers, however, still have problems. The Gorn ships, and BB in particular, still had fire-power left out the back, and they were about to overrun the Vipers and kill another. My Vipers therefore turned sharp and ran, then later in the turn HET'd to pull back towards the Dominator in pursuit.
Right at the end of the turn the Dominator (having hit some asteroids to be ready for some power at turn end) caught up with the rear Gorn ships, and put his last TRH and phasers into the BCH he had hit earlier, that left that looking crippled. However, of crucial importance (and may yet be the decisive roll of the game), yet again his attempt to displace away failed! leaving him right next to the entire Gorn fleet as the next turn started.
Turn 5. Whilst the Gorn fleet had used up their HETs, there was no doubt that they would give serious consideration to another HET and fire at the DOM if they got the chance. Mass phasers and carrnodes could well have done him in. I therefore slammed on the brakes and went 24 in reverse. Assuming half his fleet failed HETs I would get away from enough of them, and behind an asteroid, and hence probably be safe (and with vipers following in to pick off some ships).
The Gorns realised that my 24 reverse made any attempt to go for the DOM very risky, and carried on away. The DOM reversed through some more asteroids, as he was now getting low on power. Max damage from asteroids almost gave me to much damage to handle with a power dump, but a quick EM cleared just enough battery space to allow a full dump of front and back into batteries, filling me up again. He then ED'd as both sides were fast separating. The vipers carried on chasing, but keeping the distance, as the had no TRLs this turn.
We had to leave it at the end of that turn, to be carried on next week. The DOM is now a good distance from the Gorns, with the vipers about half between them. I have lost 4 vipers and an INT, the Gorns have 2 BCH, 2 CF and a scout crippled or there about (a couple maybe not technically crippled yet).
It has been interesting game so far. As expected the Gorns have more than enough fire-power, once they are range 5, to vaporise even Intruders through asteroid shifts with only weapons from one side. A scout would really have helped me a good bit. His scout was clearly target number 1, forcing that to split from his fleet has helped a good bit in the big exchange. Taking on Gorns in asteroids should be about as good as it gets for Andros, but I'm still struggling, on the other hand I have to remember I am vastly outpointed, 2040 pts of Gorn to 1440pts of Andro, a 41% points advantage to the Gorns.
NB. Our campaign battles last a max of 10 turns, at which point the attacker is assumed to have withdrawn (forces the attacker to attack and stop the never ending game becoming a drag for those not playing). I can't beat the Gorns in that time. Even if I am doing well, and might win in a very long drawn out game, that isn't feasible here.
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:16 pm
it's been a great game so far.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:58 pm
Really fun battle so far...
Interesting to be fighting Lee and his Andros. I haven't fought them before in FC, and it must be at least 20 years ago since I faced them in SFB.
As Lee points out I have the points advantage, which means it is unlikely that he will be able to drive me out of the location - but that is hardly his intention.
I was really unsure about how to fight the Andros in the asteroids, usually in a fleet engagement you can concentrate fire and therefore deprive them of power - eventually reducing their effectiveness 0 in the asteroids things are different. At one point in the battle after the Dominator had failed a self-displacement i had the opportunity to close on it, it was nearly out of power. but it was able to move away and crash through some asteroids to regain a power advantage.
So far the battle has run as expected. Not sure I made the right decision to take out the Intruder - should have just taken out more of the vipers. It is an interesting battle as we both have different objectives - Lee wishes to dent my fleet enough to stop my assault on the federation Starbase, I want to destroy as many Andro ships as possible as they are the only force that can hinder my tactics.
I am in no rush for a quick victory in the campaign and it might take 2-3 battles with the Andros to weaken them enough so they are less of a threat to my operations.
The current battle is halfway through - I might lose a couple more ships but the Andros will have to pay dearly for each cripple...
Interesting to be fighting Lee and his Andros. I haven't fought them before in FC, and it must be at least 20 years ago since I faced them in SFB.
As Lee points out I have the points advantage, which means it is unlikely that he will be able to drive me out of the location - but that is hardly his intention.
I was really unsure about how to fight the Andros in the asteroids, usually in a fleet engagement you can concentrate fire and therefore deprive them of power - eventually reducing their effectiveness 0 in the asteroids things are different. At one point in the battle after the Dominator had failed a self-displacement i had the opportunity to close on it, it was nearly out of power. but it was able to move away and crash through some asteroids to regain a power advantage.
So far the battle has run as expected. Not sure I made the right decision to take out the Intruder - should have just taken out more of the vipers. It is an interesting battle as we both have different objectives - Lee wishes to dent my fleet enough to stop my assault on the federation Starbase, I want to destroy as many Andro ships as possible as they are the only force that can hinder my tactics.
I am in no rush for a quick victory in the campaign and it might take 2-3 battles with the Andros to weaken them enough so they are less of a threat to my operations.
The current battle is halfway through - I might lose a couple more ships but the Andros will have to pay dearly for each cripple...
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:28 pm
A Dominator in Speed 24 reverse? That's about 72 points of power for movement alone, but I guess with 60-off power plus 60-off from batteries, you can get away with it in an Andro. Pretty cool, look forward to hearing how the rest of the battle goes!
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:35 pm
Andros do not pay double to move in reverse (5V3d), and certainly not tripleSneaky Scot wrote:A Dominator in Speed 24 reverse? That's about 72 points of power for movement alone, but I guess with 60-off power plus 60-off from batteries, you can get away with it in an Andro. Pretty cool, look forward to hearing how the rest of the battle goes!
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:20 pm
Thanks Lee - that's what I get for not doing my staff work properly! Wonder what the reason the that additional Andro tweak is? 
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:48 pm
I'm guessing, but I think it is to make sure that they can't use reverse movement to easily clear out their batteries for power dumps etc.
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:23 pm
That is the exact reason. Going in reverse for double costs allows the Andromedans to burn ridiculous amounts of power, so that was one of the avenues removed from them.storeylf wrote:I'm guessing, but I think it is to make sure that they can't use reverse movement to easily clear out their batteries for power dumps etc.
(Just assume their warp drives work slightly differently. They are extra-galactic. No reason it has to work exactly the same.)
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:40 pm
Thanks guys - fascinating (as a well known Science Officer once remarked).
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:46 am
Rumble in the Rubble part 2;
I don't really remember much detail of this weeks session.
The Andros starting a good distance away go max speed, displacing forward with the Dom to catch up with the Vipers. By the end of the turn we have a good shot at the back of a heavily damaged BCH, and dump a lot of phasers into it, enough to do some more noticeable damage. I kept the TRs for next turn. The Gorns are now close to edge of the map and are going to have to turn around.
As his main fleet is nice and compact and fully armed again I keep my distance, waiting for the struggling BCHs to cause formation problems, which they do. Both BCHs are forced to break away, and I split up to chase them down whilst the rest of the Gorn fleet is wallowing around. One BCH is vaporised by phasers from the Dom and 3 Vipers, the other though gets close to its home edge, and I am unable to bring the 5 vipers trailing it to fire on the same shield, without turning into the main Gorn group. I fire and just miss taking it out by half a dozen boxes. The BCH then limps off.
Our 2 groups slowly swing back round to join up, but the Gorns fling themselves at speed 24 in between our groups. My Dom and 3 vipers approach on the Gorn RS, whilst the other 5 vipers are coming in on his LS. Yet again my DisDevs are pretty poor, 3 attempts and the BB and DNL fail, but a BC is displaced just in front of 3 vipers. However, in order to hit it I'm going to have to allow the rest of his fleet point blank shots at them. The Dom has turned to pass the Gorns parallel at about a range of 5, but with their fleet split across both Banks of panels. He doesn't fall for that, and instead just nukes the 3 vipers, who in turn hit a BC hard, immediately following that the other 5 vipers come in and destroy another BC, losing one of them at the same time (so 4 vipers for 1 BC and about a cripple BC). The DOM drops a BB shield and damages another.
There is then a bit of Gorns running away, whilst I reload and follow. The Gorns are not really in a position to force any fighting in the asteroids.
We are about to start turn 9, but that will be next week. The Andros have 4 Vipers and the Dom, fully armed and about 10 hexes behind the Gorn fleet. There is probably just 1 more big pass, as end of turn 10 sees me disengage no matter what.
The Gorn fleet still has a pristine DNL, BB with 2 knackered shields, a pristine BC, a cripple* BC, 1 cripple* CF, 1 badly damaged CF, and Orion BC with a knackered shield (asteroid strike).
Losses so far: 8 vipers and 1 INT dead. 1 BCH dead, 1 BC dead, 1 damaged Scout disengaged, 1 crippled BCH disengaged.
* = or there about.
If the game would continue indefinately I think I am getting close to being at the point where the DOM could win. The Gorns are starting to have issues with diminishing fire-power and damaged ships with power issues. The BB and DNL still pack a hefty wallop, but if one of those is hit hard this turn, even for the loss of 4 vipers he would struggle against the DOM. That however, can't happen due to the 10 turn imit.
I don't really remember much detail of this weeks session.
The Andros starting a good distance away go max speed, displacing forward with the Dom to catch up with the Vipers. By the end of the turn we have a good shot at the back of a heavily damaged BCH, and dump a lot of phasers into it, enough to do some more noticeable damage. I kept the TRs for next turn. The Gorns are now close to edge of the map and are going to have to turn around.
As his main fleet is nice and compact and fully armed again I keep my distance, waiting for the struggling BCHs to cause formation problems, which they do. Both BCHs are forced to break away, and I split up to chase them down whilst the rest of the Gorn fleet is wallowing around. One BCH is vaporised by phasers from the Dom and 3 Vipers, the other though gets close to its home edge, and I am unable to bring the 5 vipers trailing it to fire on the same shield, without turning into the main Gorn group. I fire and just miss taking it out by half a dozen boxes. The BCH then limps off.
Our 2 groups slowly swing back round to join up, but the Gorns fling themselves at speed 24 in between our groups. My Dom and 3 vipers approach on the Gorn RS, whilst the other 5 vipers are coming in on his LS. Yet again my DisDevs are pretty poor, 3 attempts and the BB and DNL fail, but a BC is displaced just in front of 3 vipers. However, in order to hit it I'm going to have to allow the rest of his fleet point blank shots at them. The Dom has turned to pass the Gorns parallel at about a range of 5, but with their fleet split across both Banks of panels. He doesn't fall for that, and instead just nukes the 3 vipers, who in turn hit a BC hard, immediately following that the other 5 vipers come in and destroy another BC, losing one of them at the same time (so 4 vipers for 1 BC and about a cripple BC). The DOM drops a BB shield and damages another.
There is then a bit of Gorns running away, whilst I reload and follow. The Gorns are not really in a position to force any fighting in the asteroids.
We are about to start turn 9, but that will be next week. The Andros have 4 Vipers and the Dom, fully armed and about 10 hexes behind the Gorn fleet. There is probably just 1 more big pass, as end of turn 10 sees me disengage no matter what.
The Gorn fleet still has a pristine DNL, BB with 2 knackered shields, a pristine BC, a cripple* BC, 1 cripple* CF, 1 badly damaged CF, and Orion BC with a knackered shield (asteroid strike).
Losses so far: 8 vipers and 1 INT dead. 1 BCH dead, 1 BC dead, 1 damaged Scout disengaged, 1 crippled BCH disengaged.
* = or there about.
If the game would continue indefinately I think I am getting close to being at the point where the DOM could win. The Gorns are starting to have issues with diminishing fire-power and damaged ships with power issues. The BB and DNL still pack a hefty wallop, but if one of those is hit hard this turn, even for the loss of 4 vipers he would struggle against the DOM. That however, can't happen due to the 10 turn imit.