Federation Commander

I'll admit this is most likely a case of "reading things in the rules that aren't there," but I just want to be sure.

Can a photon torpedo be pre-loaded the turn after firing? (4C1b says it can be "fired every other turn", but is that pretty much there just because it takes two turns to load one?)

so lets say you fire on turn 3. turn 4 u pay 2 points to preload. turn 5 you pay 2-6 points for various loads during the energy allocation portion of the turn, and may fire the weapon during any direct fire phase of that turn.

effectivley the photon can fire every other turn.

I'm not sure I understand the question. You seem to be asking...

If I fire on turn 3, can I pre-load during energy allocation on turn 4. Answer's is Yes.

If you are asking, If I fire on turn 3, can I pre-load during turn 3, the answer is No.

(4C1b says it can be "fired every other turn", but is that pretty much there just because it takes two turns to load one?)

On this one, Yes. It's pretty much there because it takes two turns to load one. you can't fire every turn because of the load time, so the fastest you can fire is every other turn.

That Don Guy wrote:Can a photon torpedo be pre-loaded the turn after firing? (4C1b says it can be "fired every other turn", but is that pretty much there just because it takes two turns to load one?)

Yes, you may pre-load a photon the turn after it was fired. For example, if you fired a photon during turn 3, you may pre-load it during energy allocation on turn 4 (and then complete the arming during energy allocation on turn 5). Once arming is completed on turn 5, the photon may be fired on turn 5.

There is no "cool-down" turn for photons, like there is for fusion beams.

(As an aside, you may not, of course, pre-load the photon on the turn it was fired, because you can only apply pre-load energy during energy allocation to an empty photon tube.)

However, '81 made a slight error. You do not have to wait for the second turn of arming to apply overload energy. You may apply overload energy at the end of the first turn of arming.

But photon overload energy may only be applied either during energy allocation at the beginning of a turn, or during the end-of-turn procedures. Correct?

i.e. overload energy may *not* be used at the moment of firing.

p.25 in my KB rulebook says that you can overload them at the instant of firing (though most of my players think this makes them too powerful)

Applying the energy to arm (but not overload) a photon must be done during energy allocation on two consecutive turns. This is how all other multi-turn arming weapons work.

Overload energy may be applied at the moment of firing. This is also how other overloadable two-turn weapons (i.e. hellbores and PPDs) work.

In addition to the above, photons get the following additional points in which they can apply overload energy:
- At the end of the first or second turn of arming.
- At the end of a turn in which the photon was held.
- During energy allocation of the second turn of arming.
- During energy allocation a turn in which the photon was held.

As an aside, I fail to see how overloading a photon at the instant of firing can be unbalancing, as that is how every other weapon is overloaded. I can see how someone might complain about the end of turn overloading, but not the instant of firing overloading.

I'm with you MJ. Every other weapon overloads at instant of firing, it'd be real unfair to force the Feds to overload prior to firing. They have enough problems getting into range and hitting without that limitation

Rules check...correct!

Paul Grogan wrote:p.25 in my KB rulebook says that you can overload them at the instant of firing (though most of my players think this makes them too powerful)

Photons too powerful? Not when I'm firing them.

If you pay for overloading before the photon is fully loaded, do you have to pay the hold cost (or even if it wasn't overloaded)

The arming cycle -

Turn 1 - Preload for 2 points of energy; Overload for up to 4 points; no hold cost (obviously, since there's nothing to hold).
Turn 2 - Finish loading for 2 points of energy; Overload for up to 4 points minus any energy you paid on turn 1; no hold cost.
Turn 3 - No loading energy; Overload for up to 4 points minus any energy you paid on previous turns (i.e. 4 points of overload energy total); hold cost based of 1 for standard loads, and 2 if any overload energy has been added.

Really, no hold cost on turn two? I've been playing that wrong.

i would have thought there was a holding cost for those torps on turn 2 of the example due to the fact they are loaded and you havent fired them.

Uh, no.

Holding energy is only allocated during energy allocation, and only applies if the torpedo was completed in a prior turn. (This goes for plasmas, too.)

So, when Turn 2 starts, the photon is not completed. Therefore, no holding energy is required. Since it is not completed, they do need to be finished.

To greatly expand junior's listing (which is fundamentally correct), try the following:

Turn X-1:
Photon tube is empty at the end of Turn X-1. They could have been fired this turn. They could have been repaired this turn. They could have just not been armed. Regardless, Turn X-1 ends with the photon tube empty.

Turn X:
During Energy Allocation, 2 points of energy are spent to preload the photon tube. No other energy can be spent on this photon during energy allocation. Just the 2 points of energy to preload.
At the end of the turn, either 2 points (for a +4 marker) or 4 points ( for a +8 marker) may be spent of any remaining energy.

Turn X+1:
During Energy Allocation, 2 points of energy are spent to finish loading the photon torpedo. Since the torpedo did not start the turn loaded, no holding cost is required. Irrespective of overload energy, these 2 points of energy must be spent in Energy Allocation or the torpedo is lost, and loading must start fresh next turn. Unlike the prior turn, overload energy can also be added during Energy Allocation. At this point the photon is ready to fire. It may be fired during any Offensive Fire Phase during the turn, but doesn't have to be.
During the turn, if the photon is fired at any point, and it is not fully overloaded, overload energy may be added at the point of fire.
At the end of the turn, if the photon has not been fired during the turn, and if the photon is not fully overloaded, overload energy may again be added.

Turn X+2:
If the photon was fired during Turn X+1, then start the whole process over with Turn X. If the photon was not fired during Turn X+1, the turn starts with a fully loaded photon. During Energy Allocation, holding energy must be applied or the photon will be lost. If the photon is not held, it is discharged, and loading must start fresh next turn.
Holding costs 1 point of energy if the photon has not been overloaded to this point. If the photon has been overloaded (to either +4 or +8 ), then 2 points of energy are required to hold the photon. Also during energy allocation, if the photon has not been completely overloaded, overload energy may be added to the photon.
During the turn, if the photon is fired at any point, and it is not fully overloaded, overload energy may be added at the point of fire.
At the end of the turn, if the photon has not been fired during the turn, and if the photon is not fully overloaded, overload energy may again be added.

Turn X+3:
If the photon was fired during Turn X+2, then start the whole process over using Turn X. If the photon was not fired during Turn X+2, the repeat the process described for Turn X+2.

Note that the above completely ignores (4C2c). (This is why I used Turn X instead of Turn 1.) If you start a scenario, and choose to take advantage of (4C2c), then you are assumed to have completed the steps described in Turn X, but you did not apply any overload energy. You then use the process described in Turn X+1 for Turn 1 of the scenario. If you do choose to take advantage of (4C2c), then your batteries will start empty.

EDIT:
Note that if a torpedo is discharged on a turn, whether that is at the end of a turn or during energy allocation, a new torpedo may not be started until the following turn. Therefore, if you are not going to hold a photon (say you have an overloaded torpedo and realize you need a norma load), you should discharge it at the end of that turn and not wait until energy allocation.