Archive through April 22, 2005
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Archive through April 22, 2005
It is largely irrelevant in any case. The scans would be affected by ECM of anything they were scanning, and of things that were inbetween (if you are looking through an asteroid field, you ARE looking through an asteroid field). And ECM does not apply to a scan of a planet (and even with ECCM you are not going to be able to target a small ground base), although obviously if you are were closer and trying to scan for specific things the "ground clutter" and "atmosphere" ECM effects would matter and need to be countered. The ultimate point is not to provide control to the drones, but to detect whether or not the explosions are in space, or on a planetary surface, how many drone detonations there are, and whether the detonations have a "Klingon signature" (Klingon drone hit something) or a "non-Klingon signature" (non-Klingon drone hit something). From that you can get a determination of how much damage you have done to the planet, and technically that is all the Klingon DB ships really want to know.
From: CO Battery A
To: BatCom-429
CC: Captain Paul Stovell, Battery CO
Battery A is prepared to warm it's phaser capacitor when so ordered. We are not yet closed up for action since not all enlisted personel have reported.
I know a lot of our contingency planning involved dispersing some of the infantry. Under the current circumstances that seems likely to increase risk for the troops with no gain in security. I respectfully suggest that given the possibility of a Klingon commando on planet the infantry be tasked to provide additional security for all ground bases, most notably the fighter and sensor bases.
Lt. Lampert
Steve Petrick:
I was not trying to contradict you or any of the informaion you had posted.
It was my intention to state a concern that you (in the guise of klingon force commander) have many options available to you in the manner in which the drone strike is conducted.
IMO this is another justification for risking a fast recon of the drone strike to determine (in as far as we are able to do so) the size, type,and last observed course of the inbound drones.
waiting for the whole package to arrive at our doorstep seems...well for lack of a better word, "compliant" with the wishes of the enemy commander,(begging your pardon, sir. no offense intended.)
Jeff Wile:
Actually, I am trying to figure out how to find out of Jeremy Gray is still around. I thought perhaps you guys might like to have someone other than me checking to make sure I do not change things based on things you say here. As I noted already, some of what has gone on in this topic since it started again has already clued me to a new tactic (surprise, even this old dog can learn new tricks), but having already committed the attack, I am not going to incorporate that tactic (I would regard it as cheating if I were to do so). But this attack IS committed, and all the details of it are already present. Nothing you guys say or do here will change the details of its conduct, but then again perhaps you would like to have someone who can 'vouch' that the . . . I guess "game master"? . . . is not deliberately changing things on you to foil your actions to counter what is going on.
I have at various times alluded to there actually being a "Dagger Team" on the planet, and alluded to there NOT being a "Dagger Team". Actually, Loren Knight does know the truth of that. But if there is one, what impact it would ultimately have would depend on you guys finally figuring out just what it is here for. If there was one, and you guys ever did manage to figure it out, it would probably lead to a chance you could 'encounter' them. But if there is not one . . . perhaps the whole goal is simply to dump dummies and make you waste resources looking for something that is not there (and that itself might have an impact later on). But there is a truth that while I would know (and as noted, all Loren knows is whether or not there really is a team on the planet, and he knows it "out of character", not as his character), the correct action would only create a possibility, not automatically reveal their presence (if they are there), so even a right guess might not turn up anything. (Although just as obviously, a right guess followed by right actions might, but again only if there really is a Dagger Team.)
BUT, if there really is a Dagger Team, would you not like to have someone who, when the mission is revealed, would verify what the mission was? Someone who could say "yes, that was what Petrick said they were doing." (Or as likely, "ha, ha, ha, you fools, Petrick never put anyone on the planet, ha, ha, ha.)
Funny how knowing if there is or isn't a Klingon team doesn't change what must be done. There are as many consequences for inaction as there is for any action in either case because no one else knows.
SPP: Jeremy Grey is sailing on the great blue, I believe.
I trust SPP. The consequences of the outcome are not that great. It's not like we will all be listed a LOSERS in a Captains LOg or something.
Most of all the is a learning excercise.
Petrick did remind me I need to review about a dozen e-mails from last year.
I will order the Cap to make a recon of the drone wave. As soon as they get a clear scan on the make up of the incoming wave(s) they are to report. At that point I will decide if they will engage or turn back.
Loren Knight:
Well, I had actually been waiting for you to post something asking for information at all. So at this juncture, as you are ordering up a recon flight, I guess the question that is going to be asked is:
"Which drone group are we to investigate?"
Jeff Wile at least guessed that the drones might not all be coming from one direction, although he never formally asked if they were or not, or suggested (in character) to you that perhaps information should be asked beyond the simple warning that Lt Getgen sent. Lt Getgen obviously would have more information.
Assuming that at this point you would ask, the drones have been launched in such a manner that there are drones approaching all sides, I say again, ALL SIDES of the planet. There are in essence six groups of drones in bound.
So, which one do you want the recon flight to check out?
Well shouldn't whomever's manning the GWS be making sure to monitor any COMM traffic, if there is/was a Dagger Team inserted that last time we saw are intrepid heros?
Your Lowly Supply Officer
All sides.
Mildly wierd, but only mildly.
If you are firing off enough drones to bust past the fighters, defsats, and shuttles, I guess it makes some sense to send 100 or so extras to devastate the rest of the planet.
A tricky Klingon commander would have the groups SPLIT near the planet, each of the 6 groups having drones targetting three or more different sides of the planet (give them final waypoints 2 hexes or so out and the groups can stay togather till they are quite close to the planet), if they have done this then we cannot defend anywhere completely by intercepting and destroying one group at range.
Do we know if they are all synchronized for more or less simultanious time on target arrival?
Shatterpacks with 12xTypeVI are sounding good.
Hmm, I need to check the rules (which I don't have with me), with 2+ BPV in commanders options I can afford an admin shuttle if that is on the list of allowed options, and I could base it on the ground at my base, then fly it to the fighter base for loading. OTOH I think we may have assumed commanders options were going for extra troops in earlier planning and I am not at all sure that an extra shuttle is a legal choice.
Scott Tenhoff:
I actually had a scene that was going to explain why, if there is a Dagger Team, its off planet communications would not be detected. Its "on planet" communications might be, but it would depend on them broadcasting a pretty strong signal, and they probably would not be that far apart most of the time.
The scene was actually going to involve one of your boys being killed while working on reloading and servicing one of the DefSats after the G1 pass.
In essence, while working on the DefSat, this intrepid lad, who was actually quite popular in your organization, happened to notice something in orbit near him. There he was, orbiting with the DefSat while running systems checks to make sure the new drone was properly integrated with its fire control system and that its other systems checked out (may as well do a manual check while you are there, fix any little things that show up), and here came this piece of debris. It looked like nothing so much as a little piece of space junk. Lots of them floating in orbit around the planet. Too many to ever track (visiting freighters and starships (including the initial colony ships and the survey ships that were here before the colony ever appeared) dump things and lose things). This looked like a piece of melted metal, possibly left by the Gunboat (it was not it will be revealed). While it was in orbit, so was your crewman, and the difference in orbital speeds was not so high that he could not reach out and grab it. Almost anyone else would have ignored it (there are thousands of such things orbiting around a colony planet). Your lad, however thought of it as a souvenir, and reached out to grab it.
What it was, was a very small communcations satellite, operating on a timed tight-beam. (No way to determine when it would broadcast, or when any others of its ilk would . . . the Klingons may have left several dozen of them in orbit . . . eventually their advanced batteries will drain and they will go inert, maybe even self-destruct . . . but it has not been that long since the Empire felt constrained to leave. The Federation knows about these little communications satellites, indeed left tens of thousands of its own over various planets when it retreated during the initial Klingon and Romulan onslaughts). The broadcasts last only pico-seconds being highly compressed data packets of information, and there is just no way to jam them or interecept them other than by accident, or really, really, really good intelligence (literally a spy in the enemy organization).
In this particular case, the self-destruct acted as an 'anti-handling' charge. The detonation was small, relatively (did not need to be very big), but it of course blew your man's hand to a fine sheen of organic material mixed with the material of his suit glove. The shock of the blast transmited up his arm shattered the bones in his forearm, and broke the bones in his upper arm while dislocating the shoulder and sending the entire body into an uncontrolled spin.
There was nothing the pilot of the shuttle could do except call down for a beam down to medical. The Suit's life-saving systems basically sealed the breach on the suit arm, amputating the arm at the shoulder and applying a tourniquet while injecting the man with pain killers.
The man was beamed down within a minute of the explosion. The arm would have to be regenerated (not sure if that is possible in Star Trek or GURPS Prime Directive), and the man would get a good dressing down for having touched the piece of debris in a former combat zone without having first scanned it.
Would have.
You see, there was a fluke.
When the device detonated, most of its mass became very fine debris, a significant fraction of it imbedded in your man's suit, but not otherwise compromising it (the suit is pretty tough, even the glove would have survived except that it was in direct contact when the device detonated). But there was a tube of some sort. This tube was not intended in and of itself to be a weapon, not even as shrapnel when the device self-destructed. But the force of the explosion drove it into and through your man's face plate, and into and through his skull.
Even at that, the man might have recovered fully due to the advanced medical abilities (compared to what we have these days).
But the force of the explosion was just strong enough to drive the tube through the back of the helmet . . . but not all they way through. It lodged there.
The automatic systems sealed the breach in the face plate, and struggled mightly to seal the penetration in the back of the helmet, but they were only able to seal AROUND the tube's penetration.
The vacuum of space then did the rest.
He was, technically, still alive when he was beamed down to sick bay, but enough of those few pounds of gray matter had gone to the void of space that . . .
Well, . . .
And you liked him a lot.
Douglas E. Lampert;
See:
"By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 05:54 pm: Edit"
This message spelled out what Commander's Option points were available, AND HOW THEY WERE SPENT. After they were spent, the purchased units were defined as the "local defense forces" under Colonel Baluda. So I fear you are not going to be buying a shuttle (GRIN).
(personal communication)
Col Knight, sir, about my request to activate the Civil Defense Organization? Sir?
Oh, and we might want to make sure that the lights, utilities and rations are secure... wouldnt want any of the "artists and people of importance" to find fault or to complain about the preparations taken to save their lives.
The good news is, (assuming the drone strike IS "only" 360 IIIXX drones) that means there would only be 60 drones per hex side.
Gee, I think the F-16 squadron just might get a little busy here soon.
Not Timmy!!!!!!!
KHAN!!!!!
Loren and SPP and gang:
Although I haven't been involved to date, if you're looking for a "volunteer" to take the role of flying in and/or leading the CAP flight to be sent to intercept and identify at least a portion of the incoming drone wave...
"Tower, Sapphire 3, ready for launch. Awaiting instructions, over..."
We have many troops and 12 F-16M's (don't ya love it?). There are pilots on those fighters and not every one has a personality. Of course for one to be represented they should have a good personality (or at least interesting).
SPP: Frak! Hopefully my Col. alter ego is smarter than I! For some reason when I was thinking of the drone bombardment scenario (the published one, I forget the SG number) inwhich the drones all come from one side of the map. Still, they could be maneuvered to hit the planet from all sides.
Shortly I will post my initial response to the alert, my conversation with the governor and my initial orders (I have not given any yet).
General Comment:
OOC
Dont get over confident.
I would suspect that SPP has not revealed his entire hand to us yet...
There is the possiblity that the DB is intended to scramble the fighters and entice them outside of the "safe haven" of the planets atmosphere so that the "Klingon cruiser squadron" can pick off some/most/all of the responding fighters...
the problem is, the planet defenses could be swamped with a time on target drone bombardment of 360 IIIXX drones... and given that all could be fast drones... we could be "toast" if we dont handle this correctly...
Worst possible combination of factors could leave us (well actually, Col. Knight) agonizing over which threats to confront and which to ignore...
For example, we might not be able to defeat all of the drones with our current forces.
That may mean Col Knight having to prioritize which hex sides get defended and which do not...
IIRC 2 of the hex sides have no bases (well there would be casual bases, and no doubt Col Baluda has an OP Plan in place for his units defense of those areas... ) that means that Col Knight could (in theory) not defend those hex sides and reinforce the other 4 hex sides...
The result would be survival of all or most of the 429th units and bases, survival of the NG units (col Baluda's forces) and (at a guess 66%+ of the planetary population).
The dilema is two fold.
the best way to deal with the drones approaching the planet is to dispatch the fighters to kill drones while in the ballistic targeting mode.
If the klingons target the fighters while the fighters are away from the planet and vulnerable to overwhelming force... the fighters die... and the drones trash the planet.
If the fighters are retained within 5 hexes of the planet (and safe inside the atmosphere) the shear number of drones will overwhelm the defenses, and the result could be 1 trashed planet.
IMO this is why Col Knight gets "the big bucks".
Steve Petrick, In my persona as "major Wile" I use my communicator, to contact the Yeoman clerk typist in my office at Btn Operations.
request a down load from the Early warning Station of of the Btn computer network on the sensor readings on the drone bombardments, and the latest reported contacts of the Klingon ships that launched the drone strike.
question:
#1 are the Klingon ships positioned to intercept fighters launched from Cassandra IV that inturn are dispatched to intercept the various drone groups? (in plain english, if Col Knight launchers the fighters to kill the drones, will the Klingon ships be in position to attack the fighters?)
#2 are there ANY indications that there are any other Klingons ships operating in the area?
#3 is there any way to calculate when Col Knight must give the order to scramble the fighters to intercept at the 300 hex range mentioned earlier? does he have 5 minutes from the initial report? 10 minutes? an hour?
Finally, is there an assistant Btn intelligence officer posted yet? anybody on duty at that intel offices?
SPP,
Thanks. I didn't know if ground units came with those GAS shuttles. I assumed they did.
What determines whether I'm at the party?
I'm a "spare LT" and my job isn't particularly prestigious (I'm essentally the "head chauffer").
I don't care either way, I'd just like to know.
Whatever the answer, how far away are my shuttles?
John: I believe that, if you weave a good story out of it, you are able to be anywhere you like, then move anywhere else you like. This isn't quite role-playing with a GM round a table, but is role-playing to the extent you can say and do things in character.
Cat (who is not SPP...)
If the drone bombardment is at around 300+ drones, the defenses seem to have no choice but to send the fighters out into the drone swarm and engage in a long chase to whittle down the swarm. The ground bases and def sat phasers only seem able to kill about 15 drones a turn. About 10 turns of having the fighters knock down 2 dozen drones each turn with just phasers could make a significant dent.
Having the fighters run with max ECM while under EM seems only to slightly reduce the fighters ability to kill drones. (20 drones per turn versus 24 if the fighters stay close to the drones.) That, at least, affords some protection if the Klingons try to shepard to drone force in. (Okay, only do that if the Klingons are within firing range of the group of drones targeted for phaser engagement.)
But shouldn't the first set of orders be to get the fighters loaded in accordance with the set plans and gathering as much information as possible from the sensor stations. The alert response plan should simplify much of the initial decision making.
Richard Wells, I'm inclined to agree. There is just a couple things I need first.
SPP: Please confirm that this is the same final layout for the 429th that you have on file.
===================================
Deployment of 429th Planetary Defense Battalion
Planet Cassandra IV (Nomea)
Lt. Colonel Loren Knight, CO.
Review is per planet side: Annapolis (A), Biloxi (B), Chico (C), Dallas (D), Encino (E), and Fargo (F).
Three Drone armed DefSats in low orbit.
GCS Annapolis (A):
• GMG (+4 BP [with 4 Trans Art.], +1 HWS, +1 GCV)
• GWS (+1 Tank, +2 BP, +2 Trucks)
• GBDP-4: Battery One (+2 GCV, +1 BP, +1 Truck)
• FGB-S: (+1 GCV, +2 BP, +2 Trucks)
All bases are on one power grid. All bases are in one GCL. One casual fighter base cleared and ready.
GCS Biloxi (B):
• No Ground stations.
The GCL has three GCS with one GDS each.
GCS Chico (C):
• GBDP-4 Battery Two (+2 GCV, +1 BP, +1 Truck)
Three GDS around the base.
GCS Dallas (D):
• GWS (+1 Tank, +2 BP, +1 Truck)
• FGB-S (+1 GCV, +2 BP, +2 Trucks)
GCS Encino (E):
• GBDP-4 Battery Three (+2 GCV, +1 BP, +1 Truck).
Three GDS around the base.
GCS Fargo (F):
• No Ground Stations.
The GCL has three GCS with one GDS each.
One full Fighter Squadron: 111th Fighter Wing “Specter Squadron”.
The Squadron is divided into two flights:
1. Banshee Flight (5 x F-16M and 1 x F-16EM) station Annapolis.
2. Ghost Flight (6 x F-16M) station Dallas.
Commander’s options include:
o 34 ADD rounds ( 17 each FGB-S)
o 8 extra Deck Crews (4 each FGB-S)
o 8 Ground Attack Pods (4 each FGB-S)
o 4 Trans. Artillery ( 2 each FGB-S)
o 2 Probe Drones (1 each FGB-S)
Beginning drone load out for the squadron is 2 Type 1F + 2 Type VIF for each F-16M. The F-16EM starts out with 4 Type VIF drones.
The fighter Cap will be one F-16M (+1 Phaser pod, +1 Sensor Pod) and the F-16EM (+2 EW pods).
General Drone stores consist of 60 Type 1F and 80 Type VIF at each FGB-S.
General Fighter Pod Stores consist of: 24 EW Pods, 10 Phaser Pods, 2 SW Pods, 23 Cargo Pods, and 1 Sensor Pod.
Officers will be stationed as follows:
• Lt. Col. L. Knight at Annapolis GMG
• Sgt. Maj. Gary Plana at Annapolis GMG
• Maj. Richard Wells at Dallas FBG-S
• Maj. Jell Wile at Annapolis GMG
• Capt. Justin Howell, Capt. Jim Cummings and Capt. Scott Tenhoff at Annapolis GMG.
• Lt. Andrew Palmer at Annapolis GWS
• Lt. Douglas Lampert at Battery One (A).
• Lt. Geoff Conn at Battery Two (C).
• Lt. Stewart Frazier at Battery Three (E)
• Maneuver Company at Annapolis GMG except for:
o Third Platoon, Lt. Mike Raper at Dallas. Lt. Raper will command the tank there.
• Space Warning and Electronic Support Company:
o Capt. David Kass at Annapolis GWS
o Lt. Garth Getgen at Annapolis GWS
o Lt. John Casper at Dallas GWS
• 111th Planetary Defense Fighter Squadron (Specter Squadron):
o Maj. Andrew Harding at Annapolis FGB-S
o Capt. Robert Cole at Dallas FGB-S
o Banshee Flight Leader Lt. Christopher Fant at Annapolis FGB-S
o Ghost Flight Leader Lt. Daniel G. Knipfer at Dallas FGB-S
• General Defense Company’s Capt. Michael C. Grafton at Annapolis GMG.
SPP and others,
A few questions.
Firsty drones targeting planets, I think they spend stop on entering the atmosphere and then impact impulse 1 of the following turn. I only have basic set rules to hand and can't find a reference. If true it is a small help to the defense.
What is the top speed of the fighters?
If they intend to intercept the drones at a distance from the planet bear in mind the drone wave will be travelling at least 2 hexes a turn quicker than the fighters. Carrying external pods maybe a bad idea.
Various considerations (in no particular order):
a) Get the phaser pods on the fighters. They'll kill a few extra drones.
b) If you aren't sending the fighters out to engage at long range, consider using remote control to gain the drone launch rate advantage (and protect pilot lives).
c) The defenses can handle about 150 drones in one turn, with a sustained fire of about 95 once the fighters are out of drones. (I'm presuming the bombardment won't last long enough for the defsats to run out). These are 'rough' numbers and don't account for average fire. 'Average' would be about 120 drones 'peak' with 65 per turn after that (engaging at range 1).
d) 17 drones impacting will devastate a planetary hex side. So anything over about 220 drones in one turn and Noumea is totally devastated. The Klingons can do this math too, and 220 drones is easy to arrange to come in in one turn. That is about one D6D's loadout. If this is a full 3 ship strike - all in one turn - the Space Raid bunkers had better be deep.
e) From (c) and (d) there is no real choice but to engage the drones at range to increase the fighter firing opportunities. The GWS can count targets at 300 hexes range, the EWF at 100 and a normal fighter at 70 (Twice the level A radius). This assumes a level EW playing field, but the drones have the STM while the fighters will only have what pods they carry.
f) The fighters at range will lose between 1 and 2 hexes a turn on the fast drones (depending on what pods they carry to slow them down). Care needs to be taken so the fighters don't end up BEHIND the drones, where their own counter drones may become useless (but it is worth remembering (P2.8531) and (P2.8532) - the Klingon drones will hang about in the atmosphere for a while before impacting, so counter drones may be useful then).
g) Suggestion: Crank up the ECCM on the GWSs and scan for targets. Scramble the manned fighters to space. Once you know how many targets you have incoming (at about 300 hexes range*) then decide where to send the fighters. They would then be able to engage the drones from about 150 hexes on in. Keep scanning with the GWSs so you can tell if any of those targets are NOT drones once they hit 150 hexes (level A for the GWS - further if we allow ECCM to work at that range).
CatWhoLeaps
* This presumes we allow ECCM to work at strategic ranges - which, as SPP pointed out, is undefined currently.
Coming in on this cold, I was wondering why there are no armoured drones in the mix. While I understand that there may be no "specials" because they would complicate maintenance, armoured drones should not pose a problem and would be useful against most enemies.
If this base is defending against a drone strike, is there any way to engineer a few T-bombs? They would make a nonsence of any one co-ordinated strike arriving over 1 turn, as that is when they are most effective, and downing shields to transport the bombs will not be a problem with the Klingons ships way out of range. Alternatively, a very light minefield of 6-10 T-bombs triggered against drones would make a world of difference. If that was a known possible hazard, it would make sense to have a few type-I multi-warhead drones for the fighters.
Finally, it has been mentioned that the drones hang around for a turn in atmosphere. While I cannot rememeber the details on the atmosphere rules, if a T-bomb has any effect in an atmosphere, you can wait until all those drones pile up, and wipe them all out in one go with a single bomb. If the T-bomb has no effect on adjacent atmosphere, can you deploy it in the atmosphere? I.e. once 20-impulses worth of drones are "stuck" in atmosphere, drop a T-bomb, engineer a gap in drone arrival with your fighter and ground phasers while your shields go up again, and then the next drone arriving into the atmosphere triggers the bomb, killing all the drones.
Very nice detail.
Hey - I bagged the 1000th post!
David Crew:
Getting out run by the drones is not that bad. The fighters should expect to get one shot at close range; HET; get another shot at close range as the drones start to overtake the fighters; and thanks to turnbreaks get off a third phaser shot before the drones get out of reach. If the drone wave is thick enough to lose 72 out of it and still overwhelm the fixed planetary forces, we have insurmountable problems. After a wave passes by, the fighters would resume the procedure on the next wave of drones.
Phaser pods only fire one time. Not sure the 5 drones phaser pods will kill are worth the reduction in EW pods in case Klingon ships actually do join in. (Placing a phaser pod on a drone rail replacing a drone is a bad idea. The ability to kill more drones from a greater distance will give the fighters more flexibility. And if the initial loadout plan was for drones, deck crews are better used loading shatterpacks instead of unloading and reloading the fighters.)
David Slatter: Err, lots of decisions made early on cover that. An expectation of facing Klingons whose drones and ADDs reduce the value of armored drones was a consideration in the past.
Transporter bombs would be quite effective in this situation. Command controlled explosive mines one hex from the planet would be even better. Sadly, the defending forces lack transporter bombs.
The mine in atmosphere would destroy all the drones in the atmosphere (P2.5473) but inconveniently also affects the installations on the planet surface. An additional complication is that (M3.22) prevents the transporter bomb from being laid in atmosphere in the planet's hex.