By the way, Captain Justin Howell will tell you that it is extremely unlikely that the Klingon PF got information on anything but the Captain's Kass' company, i.e., the two GWS stations, on its pass, other than that all it got were the locations of the bases, not their types.

If you go back and review the event, you would discover that during its pass the G1 was operating maximum ECM, and had no ECCM running. At bare minimum that meant that it would have at best gotten a Level K information due to the one point of ECM the atmosphere provided, and the two points of ECM the bases have built-in, and would not be able to power or adjust that ECM until Turn #2. At some point during the run Colonel Knight order OEW jamming, but that would not have been possible until Turn #2 (the Special Sensors started off on Tactical Scans and could not change to OEW until the start of the second turn).

The GWS are identified because they used their special sensors. The ground bases pretty much never did anything (had the fighters launched, the Klingons would have known which bases were the fighter bases, had the GMG fired its phaser-2, it would have been identified. Had the phaser-4 bases fired their phaser-4s . . .). So they were identified AS GROUND BASES, but the ECM shift guaranteed that they would not be identifed as to type.

So the Klingons KNOW how many ground bases were on the planet a week ago, and they know where they are deployed, and they know the precise location of the two GWS stations. They might infer the locations and what the other bases are (they have seen fighters for example), but which of the six bases are the three Ground based Phaser-4s (and are they phaser-4s, or phaser-1s? Or ground Missile bases? They did not shoot), which is the Ground Military garrison, which are the ground fighter bases? All this might be "guessed" based on the KNOWN locations of the GWS stations, but it would be a guess, and obviously a pretty good one.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Ken Kazinski:

The presence of fast drones in the battalion pretty much tells you it is post Y180. The presence of the "C" upgrade on the F-16M fighters pretty much tells you it is around Y183. I believe the actual date was Y182 (this would be one of the earliest deployments of the upgrade to the F-16, preceding the general deployment in Y183).

The planet is pretty much going from Weapon Status Zero to Weapon Status three, but will be fully operable at that weapon status (i.e., three) with fighters launched and etc. when the first drones cross the 101 hex line into range of the phaser-4s.

The warning, in any case, is not from the planet's own systems, but from Starfleet.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

You are, of course, asking good questions, but at this juncture the computer is going to tell you that it will take it longer than the time between "now" and the end of the attack to generate the data you are requesting. While it is in character for you to ask these things, you have to remember that if you ask questions that require me to create everything that happened in the last six months in order to provide the answers you need, all you accomplish is shutting things down. The time to create all that information and make it consistent and logical is, I fear, not available, and made up off the cuff answers will inevitable have logic flaws and could impede other occurrences in moving plot forward.

So, do ask the questions (it is a valid thing for you to do), but do not expect that you will always get answers.

Sorry.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 06:49 pm: Edit

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Major Wile: "Computer- please report on the drone bombard ment wave that Star Fleet advised us (the 419th PDU) has been targeted at the 429th PDU and Cassandra IV (Calendonia).

"note specifically unit counts, speeds (especially if one group is moving at a different speed than the others) and note the number of way points the drones have already completed (if any)."

COMPUTER: Data not available. Maximum range such data can be determined by planetary special sensors is 75 hexes, fleet special sensors could determine the data at 150 hexes. Probable that computer analysis by fleet of operations and maneuvers by Klingon task force detected by fleet sensors indicated launch of a drone strike, and that Nomeua was a valid target. Size of strike: unknown. Composition of strike: unknown. It is still possible that the strike is in fact entirely a ruse, that the Klingon task force maneuvered in a pattern to indicate launch of a drone strike, but did not in fact launch any drones.

Major Wile: "Computer- Second request, computer, compare prior drones strikes made on other PDU's in the last 12 months. does the current pattern of the drone launch match with any prior strikes? please report specifics if there are any matches."

COMPULTER: Working.

Major Wile: "Computer- third request, in the last 12 months, has there been drone strikes launched by similar cruiser groups as reported in the current alert by star fleet? What were the ships names and tactical designations reported by Naval Intelligence in prior encounters?"

COMPULTER: Working.

Major Wile: "Computer- 4th Request, please review the after action reports of all PDU's that have been targeted by such a drone bombardment as the 429th is currently experiencing, over the last 24 months, and list the 3 most common deficencies reported, and also the 3 most common recommendations in dealing with a drone strikes."

COMPUTER: Working.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 06:59 pm: Edit

For those who are wondering why the Klingons would launch a drone strike at a planet like Nomeua rather than send the five cruiser huls to destroy the planet, the reasons have been stated before.

Basically, this is a "low risk" operation. While the ships could clearly pound the planet, they have to come within five hexes range to hit the ground bases. This runs the risk that a ship might be damaged, perhaps crippled, but drones and direct fire weapons from the planet's defenses. Such a crippled ship might not be able to make it back to Klingon lines, and guarding it during its attempt to do so would risk other ships. The ships might be moving slowly when something arrives.

Launching the bombardment drones does not risk the ships in direct combat, reducing the chance that a ship will be crippled and lost.

The Empire is, at this point in the war, trying to conserve its resources.

The drone strike has the advantage that if it does do major damage to Noumea, the Federation might be forced to disperse ships that it is trying to gather together to assault the Klingon frontier to defensive missions orbiting Noumea and many minor colonies similar to it.

If Noumea is able to fend off the attack, with no more than a minimal amount of damage, then Starfleet will be justified in not dispersing ships to various colonies to defend them and can mass more forces for the coming offensive.

So it is NOT a bad idea to use drone bombardment in this way. While the drones are expensive and you are not going to do an attack like this every day, the mere threat of its possibility (if Noumea is severely damaged) is a major plus for the Empire. The Empire might accept the bombardment of a colony like Noumea if the Kzintis were trying it in favor of mounting the offensive. The Federation politically cannot do that.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 08:31 pm: Edit

SPP: First, thanks for correcting the spelling of Noumea. My bad in earlier posts.

Second, I'm not sure what you mean by the "C" refit on the F-16M's. I did not start with F-16C. I chose straight F-16 with the Mega refit which gave them two Type-1 drones. I was pusshing the BPV envelope as it was so instead of gaining the two Type-1's with the C-refit I chose the Mega refit which gave them greater capabilities (albeit for an increased cost).

A couple thoughts: One thing for consider should there be other fly-bys is if the phaser batteries are able to fire it might be good to fire the Ph-IV as a Ph-1 and let the unit survive a limping getaway. You know, as a disinformation move.

The G1 might have spotted the casual shuttle fields I ordered and be reporting a larger ground force that is really here. This might be bad in that the Klingons may deliver a larger attack thnking there is more to take out. Another thing that concerns my character is that if the Klingons have intel that we are at our original fighter strength of two full squadrons instead of our current one squadron they may be attacking with a larger force intended to overwhelm a great defense than what we have. If so we have no chance.

At this point accurate intel given by any Klingon spies from the G1 fly-by may prove to be an asset. Maybe we should invite them to dinner? Nah...

EVERYONE: RL is working me pretty hard. Rain in CA on Sunday should afford me some time to make a few moves here after a half day of bidding jobs.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick:

I DID NOT target David Kass (in or out of the "story") for a slam.

I made a general comment that we ALL failed in the instance because no one participating in the thread thought to recommend the actions that Col Knight needed to order taken to ensure the destruction of the G-1G.

Even If David had acted promptly and taken the steps necessary to "warn" the 429th...his efforts would have been futile unless they resulted in sufficient weapons striking the target sufficient to inflict total destruction upon the craft.

As far as that goes, we all failed to provide Col knight the information he needed to make the correct command decisions.

In My Opinion, we should learn from that mistake, and resolve to "fix it" so that next time we are not caught again.

Hence my point of our failure to be alert "enough".

That Is why I have been asking questions, posing what ifs and generally trying to cover as many options as I can think of... in the hope that it will better prepare the 429th in the action to come.

Given that the range will be so short when we get the answers to my querys...perhaps we should consider some contingency plans?

for example...Col Knight MUST inform the staff as to what options he wants to be prepared for...

for example..if he wants to wait until the 429th systems will ID the drone strike, he will have eliminated the 300 hex fighter interception as an option... as if the drone strike closes to 75 hexes...it will be far too late to launch the fighters to intercept beyond that point.

if he waits to the 75 hex range point without launching fighters (or even defining what loads he wants on them) he effectively has eliminated the possibility of any effective fighter envolvement in the drone strike at all because it will take 2 turns to load drones on the fighters... and 2 turns of movement at that time equals 64 hexes of movement by the drones...which by that time will be a mere 11 hexes from the atmosphere... the fighters would just be leaving the atmosphere at the time that the drone strike will just be entering the atmosphere of the planet.

too late to make any plans at that point.

we can spin scenarios, what ifs and contingency plans in huge numbers... but at some point Col Knight is going to have to make some decisions...

and one of those early decisions is to launch the fighters before the drones hit the 101 hex range point. if he does not, there is really very few options left...and 12 intact f-16M's operating out of what ever casual bses survive the drone bombardment will not be an effective defense if pirates or klingons deploy ground forces on Casandra IV. (not if all the ground bases and ground troops of the 419th were destroyed when the planet was devastated).

I guess we need to hear Col Knights choices.

By Raymond Ford (Raymond) on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 11:01 pm: Edit

OOC

It occurs to me that all of this could be of interest to those participating in campaign games. In particular, it offers a couple of options for harassing other empires without risking ships in combat.

The concept of using a ground assault PF to put uninvited guests on a planet was in Captain’s Log #25 , but some additional things have come up in this discussion:

1. The G1G gathered information on the number of ground bases on the planet, identified two of them by type, and confirmed the presence of fighters. This could be valuable in and of itself to a campaign player.

2. SPP has presented some hard facts about such an operation. Examples: how many decoys would be used to cover the HALO jump, what happens to the decoys after they hit the ground, and just how hard it is to search all of the possible landing sites.

3. The possibility of a Dagger Team being on the planet has raised concerns over security. Increased security has costs (working your people a little harder, a slight decrease in efficiency) not reflected in SFB, but might be in a campaign.

4. If a player had the foresight, he might put an observer on a planet by other means before conducting such a flyby. In this particular case, an observer could have been left behind when the Klingons pulled out or arrived on a freighter with forged identification.. This observer would get a good look at the size and composition of a garrison’s ground forces when they conduct their search for anything dropped by the PF.

5. The search itself has costs not reflected in SFB (wear and tear on equipment and personnel), but could be factored into a campaign in some fashion.

Likewise, drone bombardment has been part of SFB for quite awhile, but this discussion has generated some new twists:

1. The garrison must expend resources to stop as many drones as possible. Obvious, I know, but worth pointing out if one player is just trying to make the other spend money. There is also the period of weakness that results after the drone bombardment.

2. As SPP has pointed out, sending drones is cheaper than sending ships.

3. SPP has also illustrated just how nasty a drone bombardment can get with the right combination of ships.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 12:19 am: Edit

The Battle of Cassandra IV: Drone Strike

When Major Plana gave me the news a chill went down my spin. Noumea was not exactly my idea of paradise but it wasn't bad and the people we nice. Jewletna city is in Chico sector and reminded me of Sedona Arizona on Earth. Although the main seat of Noumea's government was in Annapolis sector the Governor also had a mansion here in Jewletna. Warm nights provided the perfect atmosphere for an evening party.

These poor people had already been through so much. They couldn't really provide much to the Klingons besides manual labor when they were here and that is just what they did. But the resistance was a considerable thorn in the side of the Klingon occupation and production was constantly disrupted. This also cost lives. Most people on Noumea at least knew someone who was executed at the hands of the Klingons for each disruption in production.

But the ground resistance isn't really why the Klingons had to leave and it isn't what is keeping them from coming back. Do they now they intend to simply devastate the entire colony; Nuke the entire surface and there won't be a resistance next time?

Or is it a final punishment on the way out? Could Star Fleet be pushing the Klingons out of the area? It seems a waste of resources to simply enact a punishment on a bunch of artists and retirees. Or perhaps they intend to divert Federation forces to protect Noumea. If this is the case then perhaps there is hope. If Noumea is completely devastated then there wont be any diversion of forces because there will be nothing left to protect except some minor resources.

"I need a full report on all units in the sector. Anyone near by to assist, Gary?"

"No sir. In fact, that was part of the warning message. We are on our own." Sergeant Major Gary Plana replied in a tone of disappointment.

"Call general quarters and get me a range on these incoming drones. Get me all you can on the actions of the DB squadron. I want to send the cap to the closest group for Intel on size and speed. They are not to close more than necessary for an accurate recon. They will hold relative position and report their findings. Get the squadron up and running with drone defense package A and get two shatter packs ready to go. All batteries on standby alert."

"Aye sir."

"And Gary, get the troops inside except for base parameter patrol. If the NG needs help for citizen evac then lend them with orders to be on the ready for immediate return when called. I'm going to inform the Governor and I'll beam back to the GMG from here."
"Aye, sir" Plana said again and chimed out.

It took me a second to notice that Sara, the lovely young woman I'd been chatting with, was still standing there and in shock.

"Everything's going to be alright, dear, but you need to get your things and be ready to go. Someone will tell you what to do. It's going to be alright. Do you know where the Governor is?"

The poor things hands were trembling and she turned her head to the left, her eyes still fixated on mine. I looked right and saw Governor Bryson's entourage down the hall.

"Alright," I put my hand on her cheek "Just do what the authorities tell you and you will be just fine. We have a lot of good pilots and defenses. We'll stop those Klingons cold, OK?"

She stiffly nodded, "OK".

I turned down the hall trying to not push people aside too hard but I was in a hurry. The Governor was in the middle of a large group on constituents telling stories, grinning and soaking up the obligatory laughter. I pushed through the inner ring and took a hold of his arm "Governor, we need to talk."

"Oh hi, ya, sure" he said looking around flashing his politician whites to the crowd as if each was a gift to be cherished. "Let's meet in the morning, Colonel."

"No sir, now. We've just received a priority warning from Star Fleet!"

The Governor closed his mouth and looked at me for the first time. "W-what did it say?"

"Five Klingon vessels, at least three of them cruisers, have launched a drone bombardment mission at us. You have to get the people into shelter as soon as possible. We have incoming drones."

"My god, how many?"

"We don't know but you can bet there'll be a lot. The Klingons probably have intel on our forces and have accounted for them in their plans. We can stop a lot of them, sir, but there's no telling how many there are at this point. We must be prepared for some to get through. Anyone not in shelter may not survive to put it bluntly, sir."

"Alright, I'll call Condition Red world wide," and he waved several of his staff to follow him to his office.

"I have to get to Command, now. You can reach me there after fifteen minutes." I said as I turned away and looked for an exit. Upon reaching an exterior balcony I called for immediate transport and to have someone waiting with my duty uniform at the Command Center. I knew I probably wouldn't have time to change but I'd rather not command in combat in full dress.

Upon entering the Command Center I was greeted by my yeoman holding my duty uniform and a cup of hot coffee. I held up my hand to him "Not yet, Carl," then I look around to see everyone was on duty and in place and Sgt. Major Plana approaching me briskly. "Major Plana, report."

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 12:38 am: Edit

What I want to know is best intel on drone range. If possible, how many groups and realative size. I want the Cap at the largest and/or closest group if possible. I want them to report from as long a range as possible to be accurate.

I think two Shatter packs will be a good start, one at each FGB-S. GWS should be actively scanning. Fighters should be loading up with 2 Type-1's and 2 Type-VI's. If we reload they are to be reloaded with all type-VI's unless enemy ships appear. I'm going with loading a phaser pod and accepting the slower speed. Since the drones are coming our way it won't be a problem. After they fire them they can drop them. The Cap Fighers are not as noted before as they are not carrying Phaser Pods (replace with a sensor pod). This means the Ten remaining fighters will each get one phaser pod. I will listen to recomendations as to whether we should bother with other types of pods. Right now I'm thinking not.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 04:22 am: Edit

Col Knight,

Banshee Flight leader Fant here sir.

First, your load orders are being carried out.


Second, as to your request on recomendations on fighter load-outs and phaser pods, I would have to advise against sir. Up there, Type VIs and Is will be more useful to us as we can launch from range and not have to close with the incoming rounds till we can find out more about them.

If we do need to close, the Gs will be more than sufficient.

I do not recommend sending both flights out on recon if that is the plan of action. Send up Banshee to go take a look and keep Ghost near the planet.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 04:27 am: Edit

Col Knight: I urge you to reconsider sending the CAP out to examine the attacking drones. It will take the fighters more than 4 turns to move sufficiently far from the planet to gain information that the Ground Warning Stations can not. By that time, the GWS will start gathering the same information if the attacking drones continue closing at their expected speed.

OOC: The EWF gets Level-A at 50 hexes. The GWS gets it at 150 hexes. Double that for S5 when exact count of drones should occur if not precise positioning. This is inconvenient with speed 26 fighters. I disliked using the term "turn" but could not think of a better one.

Raymond Ford: I hope much of the G1 sneaking into range does not merit inclusion in SFB campaign materials. What makes for an amusing ulcer cause for the fictional planetary defense officers could lead to other PF designs used to exploit their sneaky ability. I visualize designs for PFs mounting quick killing weapons to remove much of the defenses of a sleepy planet. (Multiple Type-C racks launching Type-IV drones backed by phasers could remove both DefSats and a number of ground bases before the planet's defenses are readied.)

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 04:54 am: Edit

Out of character.

Since the drones are now at 100 hexes and closing, forgot what year, but they are probably moving fairly fast. The fighters need to begin launching, well now really, to give them time to clear the atmosphere and up to speed. I would say we have time to load up some VIs on each fighter, but that is about all.

I would not think a shatterpack is a good idea here, as you might end up with 2 or 3 drones targets together. Better to shoot them as fast as we can. There really should not be more than 8-12 together incoming, so we will have a few seconds in between "waves".

Now, there might be some MW drones coming in, or even some Starfish drones. Since the Klingons know we have a fighter squadron, they very well might have added a few in here and there to evicerate the squadron. That is the reason for Flight Leader Fant requesting no Phaser pods. To kill a drone with a P3 you need to be close, and if we are close then we might be in danger from a sleeper.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 05:07 am: Edit

Also out of character.

Each Fighter base has its 6 deck crews. The fighters have no weapons loaded as if T1,I1.

We can get all 10 fighters loaded with 2 Type VI drones in 1 turn, and 2 of those could be carrying 4. If you go with phaser pods, then it will take a full turn to arm them and get them on the fighter, so after one turn you can have either 10 Fighters with 20 Type VIs for 10 FIghters with 10 Phaser Pods. I really would suggest the VIs.

The FIghters launch T2 I1 and get out of the Atmosphere at the end of T2. They can manuever T3.

As the Original F-16 had no Type Is, they cannot control any drones I dont think, so the GBSs will have to control them till they gain a lockon.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 05:14 am: Edit

Col Knight,

As ordered, we have begun loading up Banshee flight. I have ordered the VIs up first. Do you want us to launch with a partial load, or do you want a full kit?

Banshee flight will be online and ready to launch with 12xType VIs hot in 30 seconds. We can be feet wet in 1 minute, sir. We'll need another 2 minutes to be up if you want the Type Is and Phaser Pods as well.

Standing by...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 11:18 am: Edit

General comments:

OOC

We are "jumping the gun" here a little bit...

so far as I know... Col Knight still has the option to launch a full strike of 12 fighters...and do it at the intercept point of 300 hexes.

I am not recommending that, but as of now, that is still an option.

Pros- the squadron stays together and can provide mutual support if an escort for the drones is discovered.

12 F-16M's would have the ability to destroy all 60 drones in one of the groups... effectively 1/6th of the drone wave (assuming they do infact have 60 drones... (side concern- if one of the groups has more than 60 drones in it... I'd question why... could it be bait in hope that the fighters would be sent?) in any event, the chance to attrition the drones before they get to the planet is an attractive option, if for no other reason than fewer drones hitting the planet is a "good thing"

By having the fighters intecept during the ballistic targeting mode on the drone strike...there would be no danger of anti fighter drones (MW or starfish or what ever) shooting at the fighters. in that limited sense, it would be the least risk to the fighters during the mission.)

Cons- the fighters will only get one shot at the drones, due to the fact that the drones have a higher speed... if the fighters can manage to get the intercept range over a "turn break" (assuming the drones are "Bunched up" and not in a stream of drones 60 hexes long or wide) ,,, timed right they might be able to get 2 shots off with the phaser gatlings... not just one.

the fighters would not be at the planet during the actual drone impacts (but given the speed of the drones, it might not have made that much difference?!?).

If it is determined that the drones are infact "straming" (meaning a line of drones 60 drones long) instead of in a drone stack (all drones in a single hex) the distant intercept would be the best tactic...with 2 fighter flights dispatched to each of the 6 drones groups so that the phaser gatlings could have multiple turns to shot at the drones (60 hexes with an average "overtake" advantage 6 hexes per turn (since the drones travel at 32 hexes per turn, and the fighters max speed is 26, the calculation is 32-26=6) means that the drones would be in range of the fighters 10 turns... each fighter using a gatling wil on average kill 3 or 4 drones per turn totals 30 to 40 drones eliminated out of each drone group.

Add to that the kills made by the drones the F-16Ms carry (IIRC could be 2xVIs and 2xIs each, 1 target per turn so needs 4 turns to deploy its drone load) and you will account for a further24 drones (4 drones per fighter and 6 fighters, 4*6=24)

Since we dont know the drone group composition, we could send 6 individual fighters (one to a group) to "strafe" the drone stream while leaving the second flight of 6 fighters for "CAP" over the planet it self.

This option would give the possibility to kill 180 to 240 of the drones before they get to the planet... and still leaves fighters for the final impacts. (that doesnt count the 24 kills by the fighters drones, so the "distant intercept option" could account for anywhere between 204 to 264 of the drones on the high end, when the F-16 drones are added to the drone group kills by "strafing" the drone stream.

the "con" is that if the drones are in a single stack (and depending on if the fighters can intercept at impulse 25 of a given turn(call it turn n)...they would still be barely in range for the next shot over the turn break on impulse #1 of turn n+1. the single fighters would get between 3-4 drones or (at best 6-8) each...so in that case they would only attrition 18 to 48 drones out of the estimated 360 drones. (if the F-16M drones are added, they account for a further 24 drone kills, so the estimate goes up to (18+24=42 to a high of 48+24=72).

I'd suggest the risk is warranted since the potential payoff is so big... depending on the actual number of drones in the drone group...the distant intercept option may be our only realistic method of protecting the planet.

360-42=318/6=53 estimated drones per hex side.
360-72=288/6=48 estimated drones per hex side.

With the use of the shatter packs (admin shuttles loaded with 12 type VI drones) even more of the drone groups could be attritioned. (possibly 60? (5 shuttles with 12 dogfight drones each)).

such a strategy could reduce the number of drones impacting the planet to below the threshold needed to devastate the planet (IIRC 200 points of damage per hex side).

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 11:25 am: Edit

Aw shucks, I was cutting and pasting and missed the last paragraph (drat!)

Add the following to last missive.

The 429th still has additional point defenses, and no doubt the phaser IV's will acount for some of the drones... but if we dont deal with the sheer number of drones incoming, the weight of that number of drones will swamp abilty of the 429th's point defenses to deal with the threat.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 12:30 pm: Edit

The drones are still way off as the first move was just made. The fighter cap was not in fact in flight but was two fully ready fighters on Banshee Flight (One F-16M with 2-T1's and 2-T6's and one sensor pod on the pod rail, and one F-16EM with 2-T6's and 2 EW-PODS). SPP said that if the order is giving in the opening moves the fighter cap can intercept (for R30 recon) at 300 hexes. What I want to know is the speed and make up of the wave. Is the wave in one group or several small waves? What is the spacing between groups if in multiple groups? This is valuable info. Of course I'd prefer to have info on all groups but that would totally break up the squadron and I don't want to do that. When the Fighter Cap reports I'm give new orders.

CFant: If you look upwards in the archive you'll see I recently posted the full layout of the 429th. In there you'll see I got you 4 extra deck crews for your FGB-S. Sweet huh? Also, I'm ordering phaser pods on Pod Rails not in place of any drones. The fighter speed will be reduced by one but in this case that shouldn't be a problem.

TO ALL: When the Fighter Cap reports in we should be at WS3. At R300 I'll probably order the Squadron into space.

We are needing to get the population into shelters and there is little reason to have our troops out ready for an invasion when the attack is just drones. That said I don't want to just open the door for any spies to come on in during this vulnerable period, if there are any. Stay alert and enforce protocal to the T.

After the strike is over I want a new serch for possible invaders started. Major Wile, get a non-essential GFO working up a plan. If there is a Klinogn team on planet from the G1 they will have been forced into shelter as well. I want the plan to include an imediate search or scan of all good candidates for shelter from general drone bombardment. They will need protection from radiation so that equipement was probably not kept in the cities (not impossible but unlikely IMO).

By Marc William Harkness (Kiyone4ever) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Suggestion from a novice: I think it might be a good idea to place extra security at the GWS stations. If the Klingons have placed a Dagger Team, the GWS are the only target clearly identifiable to them at the presumed time of insertion. They might attempt to disable the sensors, leaving the defenses half blind.

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Cpt Stovell continued...........

It was strange although Corporal Jones was talking of the horrors of being left in a "floating coffin" the troops were obviously relaxing somewhat from a panicky state. Emotion was a funny thing.

Stovell stopped his musing as he spotted Colonel Knight leaving the Govenors side.

"Sir can I transport to control with you"?

OOC- SPP, Loren I'm new to this should I put words in Lorens' characters mouth or wait for him?

By William Curtis Soder (Ghyuka) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 02:43 pm: Edit

General Comments:

Assuming that the drones have not completed their final waypoint assignments is not a good idea. The Type-IIIXX drones could be in target aquisition mode from launch point at a maximum range of 3200 hexes of said planet. If fighters are included in the target criteria, MW and Starfish drones could engage the fighters at the 300 hex barrier.

The F-16s can control 2 drones per fighter (J4.25) and the EWF can assume control of 12. The real problem lies within the launch rate. Effectively it will be 1 per turn unless you wish to target more than 1 drone per bombardment drone. Also, while you are sending said fighters out to attrit the bombardment from that direction, it has already been said that it's coming from all directions.

Another thought that seems to be in play is that a massive wave cannot be produced at one time. That is also not the case. If you launch type-IIIXX drones and set up the waypoints well, you can have every single drone in the same hex before they reach the 300 hex barrier, if you so choose.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 03:31 pm: Edit

I am surprised that people did not pick up on Richard well's idea earlier, the one about having a Ground assualt shuttle at 3 hex range from the planet to "flush out" which drones are targeted at the planet and those that were intended to kill fighters and shuttles.

say instead of using the GAS or admin shuttles (which should be in the shatter pack role any way, not just two but all five!)...use all 12 of the F-16's to help distract as many drones from the planet bombardment mission (trusting in the CHAFF, phaser gatlings and T1 and T6 drones to help them survive)

I say that because if the drones are on random targeting that would give the drones 13 targets to pick from, not just 1 (the planet).

If there is a chance to have (360/13=27.69) drones actaully getting to the atmostphere (less any killed by point defenses), it will lose most or all the fighters...but the planet will be saved.

compare with if the fighters are not used in the equation...but all 5 admins shuttles and the 3 GAS are substittuted:

360(the drone groups)/(5(the Admin)+3(the GAS))+1(planet))=360/9=40 drones targeted on each item.

if the GAS's and and the Admin shuttles are "sacrificed" in this way...then "only" 40 drones would be hitting the atmophere..and 100% of the 429ths point defenses can concentrate on killing those drones.

net result planet survives...virtually all of the 429th bases survive, all 12 F-16's survive...but we lose 5 Admin shuttles (at 2 PBV each, total 10. and 3 GAS (I forget what the BPV is, but guessing it wont be a lot) to kill 360 IIIXX drones.

we risk losing 8 shuttle pilots and gunners.

and we dont know if the drones will accept random targets at the end...

but it might allow the planet to survive.

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 03:38 pm: Edit

On fighter intercepts.

My calculations, if the 10 remaining fighters get to launch on the turn the drones reach 300 hexes
call thos turn 1.

Turn 3 they leave atmosphere at speed 25 the bombardment drones(DB) end turn three 204 hexes out.

Turn 6 fighters can position themselves 35 hexes away on impulse 32 and launch their first type-1
DB at 128 hexes.
Turn 7 impulse 8 fighters launch their second type-1 and HET away. Fighters about 75 hexes from planet.
DB at 96 hexes -Phaser IV can open fire
Turn 8 Impluse ?? fighters HET back to face drones and launch their first type VI
DB at 64 hexes
Turn 8 Impulse ? fighters launch their second type VI, Impulse ? close pass on drones firing phasers then HET to pursue drones my drop phaser pod and use mid-turn speed changes to keep close to drones.
DB at 32 hexes from planet fighters at say 33
Turn 9 Impulse 1 fighters fire gatlings a second time
DB hit atmosphere
Turn 10 Impulse 1 drones impact!!!!!! However if not all the drones start at 300 hexes but some slightly further they will be mired in the atmosphere turn 10 and give the fighters and point defense another shot.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Memo
To: Col Knight, CO 429th PDU.
From:Major Wile, S3 OPs, 429th PDU.
Re: Tactical intelligence.

Sir, I implore you to dispatch 2 fighters on the recon mission immediately, and give full latitude to the officer in tactical command to use his initiative.

1. with an intercept at 300 hexes, it will give you 10 turns to adjust the defenses of the 429th(based on what the recon reports) before the drones arrive at the edge of the atmosphere of Cassandra IV.
2. if not escorted, the 2 fighters can attrition a signifcant portion of the drone group that they encounter, thus fullfilling their contribution to the defense effort. (and if escorted, you will have 10 of the 12 fighters still safe at base, with the bonus of early warning about the additional enemy forces approaching Cassandra IV.)
3. Forewarned is forarmed. if the group is not escorted, you will still be to intercept the remaining 5 drone groups outside of the 101 hex range of the planet where signifcant attrtion can be inflicted upon the enemy at a point where the fighters are safe from dangers of MW IIIXX drones and other restricted drone types.

the disadvantage of not performing the Recon mission include:
A. you will not gain the information as to drone counts, and pattern (are they in a Stream, ranks or in a single drone stack) until they get to either the 150 hex range, with additional information available at 75 hexes.
B. we do not know if the drones actually are IIIXX types. that is the most common, and most expected types...but Klingons have "slipped in a joker" from time to time...what if they managed to include type H drones some how? (not likely since we are talking drone bombardment ships...but what if they had drogues...5 cruisers (depending on what exact type) might have 5 or more drogues...with specially configured H drones would complicate our defenses.
C. expose the fraud. what if the drone bombardment was a decoy action? suppose the 5 cruisers only pretended to be a DB squadron? say that the had used their commanders option points to buy IIIXX drones... (say the had 10 or 12 of the things, based on Racial limits and such) they could have mimiced the actions to fool starfleet and launch a trojan horse drone attack...while bringing the commando cruiser, mauler and 3 D5's into a "smash and Grab" raid of cassandra IV?

We need information...and if we wait to get it there will be precious little time left to make the approporiate responses.

Thank you,
Major Wile.
429th OPS.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Loren Knight:

Error.

You can intercept at 300 with the entire squadron fully loaded. You can send the cap for a look by itself, but it will move a lot farther than 300.

Further, the entire squadron has only ONE Sensor pod. See the rules for Sensor Pods. Max of one per squadron, and no extras may be purchased. So while one of the fighters on CAP might have that pod, the other will not have a pod of that type.

To All:

I have said before, the battalion has all the time it needs to go to Weapon Status III, including fully loading the fighters (including landing the CAP, reloading it, and launching it with different pods if you wish) to make the intercept. Time enough to load as many scatter/shatter packs as you wish, and get them where you want them to be (they will simply still have to be moving since you cannot order a scatter/shatter pack to go someplace and park).

No drones are on the map (defined as within 100 hexes or less), and will not be until Loren is set (although obviously some things will need to be worked out if he intercepts at longer range, even if with just the CAP).