I think we need to lobby instead of adding T-Bombs to PDUs, that we should as players lobby for a PMS (Planetary Minefield Station) which would include MSS/MLS and transporters to support operations of playing/maintaining Minefields.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 02:27 pm: Edit

Loren Knight:

I NEVER said the ships orbited the planet.

I did say that it is possible to use the WAYPOINTS (have the drones do HETs at Waypoints to head for their next way point) to get the drones to hit any point on the planet you wanted.

You cannot determine which of the drone swarms was launched first, because as I noted, Starfleet only figured it was a drone strike from the maneuvers of the ships (some maneuvering is required to set up the attack). The drones themselves have not been observed. You are not going to know much about them, not even if they are really there (barring sending fighters or shuttles to look) until they are at about 150 hexes away. This is because you have level A information at 75 hexes with your Ground Warning Stations, and will know the location of all UNITS (a drone is a unit) within five hexes of its real location under level S5, which is defined as double your level A range, i.e., 150 hexes. When the drones cross that boundary (barring other means of detecting them), I will have to prvide you a count on the number of drones (as units) in each approaching group. But prior to that, Starfleet has alerted you to that what appears to be a Klingon drone bombardment strike is taking place, and your planet is the possible target. But not even Starfleet knows how many drones there are at this juncture.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Scott Tenhoff:

Minefields around planets is a touchy thing. Planets with significant infrastucture might (MIGHT) have a minefield, but relatively minor colony planets will not. The problem is that minefields actually have to be maintained, and if not maintained, mines can literally fall out of position. As they are a hazard to shipping if not properly maintained, and maintaining them is something a minor colony cannot afford the expense of (and neither can Starfleet afford to maintain a minefield around every colony), there generally is not a minefield around such planets. And in game terms, no particular reason to complicate pirate scenarios with them in any case. (My Pirate wants to raid a colony next weekend . . . who wants to create the minefield.)

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 02:37 pm: Edit

LTJG Richard Sherman (OOC: I'm assuming, as a pilot, that I'm an officer. If not feel free to "demote" me), callsign "Tank," re-checked his weapons readout. Everything showed green...

I idly fingered the throttle. Precious seconds ticked by. It was the waiting that was the worst.

The canopy was still set to translucent for atmospheric flight, so I glanced over at my wingman in the squadron's EWF. He and his EWO were obviously involved in a conversation. Nice to have company; makes the waiting easier.

My head started to itch. A tell-tale sign of growing impatience. Dammit! I flicked the transmit switch. Time to risk a second call...

"Tower, this is Banshee 3, awaiting instructions..."

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Switching to squadron Frequency:

Banshee Flight, this is Banshee lead. We should have our go order here shortly, keep the comm channels clear till then. Out.

Switching to battlion Frequency:

Col. Knight, Banshee Flight is hot. Awaiting final strike order and destination waypoints. Over...

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 03:02 pm: Edit

I think I'll use callsign Merlin. Always like that one.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Merlin: [two mike clicks]

By Craig Tenhoff (Cktenhoff) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 03:35 pm: Edit

This thought just hit me.

Someone better figure out the first intercept point & the movement/launch plan for the fighters.

Given that the F16M can launch one drone at a time (@ 1 target), can do one HET per turn and can only engage with a T1 drones at 35 hexes. With these parameters, and a potential closing rate between 7 and 57 hexes per turn (depending if the closure is head on & the timing of the HETs), I believe that you can only get between 1 and 3 drones off the rails before the Type IIIXX are out of the engagement envelope.

Of course, all this is from my memory of the rules from a LONG time ago, so correct me if I'm wrong. If someone can tell me how long between fighter HETs, I could up with a basic launch plan.

Also, do drones count as small targets and has the small target ECM been taken into account for any long range (R50+) P4 shots?

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 04:18 pm: Edit

SPP: I fully understand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

The Cap fighters are to launch and intercept drones in direction A (this is the capitol city hex side). They are to report as soon as they have a fix on a target. The Cap is the EWF and another F-16M (no Sensor pod). Their load is a standard load. I will give them further orders when they report.

The rest of the fighters are to launch when ready and hold possition in high orbit in two flights, Banshee and Ghost. Banshee will have just four fighters as the cap was from their flight.

GWS's are full active scan.

GBDP-4's are primed and ready to arm and fire. They will begin firing as soon as there is a target. That is, impulse 25 or if there will be a column shift hold fire for that. When the drones are close (e.g.: the final turn before entering the atmosphere) I will want to do this impulse by impulse (or gourps of impulses to simplify things a bit).

Admin shuttles are to be loaded with 12 Type-VIs. Once the fighters are launched the GWS admins can be moved to the fighter bases to be loaded.

GAS shuttle are helping with the effort to move citizens to shelter. They are to be available to enter space and act as a Ph-3 platform.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 04:21 pm: Edit

SPP;

Scott's PMS (presumably the name/initials will change if it ever gets accepted) might exist for the purpose of creating a hasty minefield around minor planets that wouldn't have a permanent field.

In the scenario currently under consideration, the defenders would have adequate warning time to put out a number of T-bombs from the MLSs and transporters. Against a drone raid, the mines would be set for SC-7 only so that fighters and shuttles could safely transit the field. Against actual attack, the mines would be set to accept a variety of sizes (and some would be large mines laid by the MLSs) with a safe-transit lane or two for the defenders.

Since the intent is not to establish a permanent mine field but to set up a hasty one in the face of imminent attack, the mines would be set to self destruct some reasonable length of time after being placed.

Possible deployment pattern - Each brigade has two of these small mine stations as a brigade asset, though if the brigade is dispersed among several systems a station might be chopped to an isolated battalion. In addition, division has a much larger (medium ground base) version that is the facility for maintaining a permanent minefield and is always kept under division HQ's control. As such it only appears on planets critical enough to justify a permanent (or at least long term - as in several months duration) minefield.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 04:32 pm: Edit

This thread certainly has proven to me that a PDU most certainly use t-bombs as a hasty mine field. Presumably they could be set to self destruct in a number of hours OR go inert so that they can be picked up and redeployed. There could be not signal for this but strictly a preprogrammed time upon deployment.

I would think that only a GMG would allow the use of T-Bombs (as this bases sort of makes it a leader PF, kinda like sort of???).

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Is anyone "named" in the CAP flight?

And, my, were you not lucky that one of the two fighters just happened to be the EWF?

Phaser-4s can open on the drones at 100 hexes range, and can generate enough ECCM to make sure there is no shift when they fire, provided there are no ECM drones in any "stacks". Such an ECM drone might be told to go active shortly before, or just after, crossing the 100 hex boundary, but note that this would use up that drone's last "way point" (drones go active on the last way point).

Assuming no ECM drones, then the phaser-4s have to overcome four points of ECM (small target), which takes them two points of power (they have two points of built-in ECCM, so they need to spend two points for the other two points of ECCM, once the drones reach range 19, no power will be needed as the two built-in ECCM will counter the small target modifer at that range or less).

The impulse the drones cross would define how many shots, and what ranges (since the drones move 32 hexes a turn) those shots could be taken.

I am assuming that Loren's mention of Impulse #25 means that he expects drones to enter the map on Turn #1, Impulse #25, and begin movement from that point.

However, he still needs to define where the scatter/shatter packs and shuttles (fighters) will be in terms of start up hexes for Impulse #25 of Turn #1, but is clearly going to wait on that until he hears from the CAP flight on its recon.

If there is anyone actually flying either of those fighters, let me know (send me an E-mail) and we will resolve that and that person (or persons) can post any transmissions they make as a result of their intercept.

At this time, I HAVE to consider the CAP flight committed to the recon, nothing else, and things have to move forward from that point.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Steve Petrick:

1. I did not state that we were to change the rules of the game to have TB's ready at the PDU...just that the Klingons drone plan should reflect the possibility of the presence of TB's due to the utter vulnerability of a drone stack to total destruction IF a T bomb were indeed present. (or say a police ship happened by with 1-2 of tbombs aboard...not an impossible event given the varied tasks and duties that POL's have to do in the course of a patrol.)

2. Unless you and Col knight have exchangd emails on this point, may I please inquire what is your understanding of the Recon Cap interception point?

from your prior posts, I understood that the 300 hex range interception was based on the presence of the full squadron... and that if just the 2 fighter cap left immediately, the IP would be "a lot farther away"...

(this may be wrong... but) if the Recon cap departed at the first possible moment (given that few actual actions have been taken so far) how far from cassandra IV will the recon fighters intercept the first drone stack (for ease of Identification, lets lable the drone stacks A through F, and assume that the letter relates to the putative target hex side of the planet...)

Third, is real time communications from the Recon Fighters to Col Knight possible from that range? whould Col Knight be in position to give further instructions to the lead pilot? or would it be a comm black out, and the first we hear of the action will be when the f-16's get to X hex range from base (hopefully soon enough to give contact information?!?)

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Unless I've too rudely invited myself to the party, I was under the impression that my alter-ego, "Tank", in "Banshee 3," was in the CAP, and taking orders from my flight leader, "Merlin."

I don't know if I'm "leading" it, or if the EWF is the leader, or who is flying the EWF (unless that IS "Merlin.")

If I'm wrong, somebody please let me know!

SPP, I won't send you my e-mail address for this until I get confirmation (or refutation) of the above.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 05:29 pm: Edit

BTW, I'd strongly reccommend that, no matter what command ultimately chooses as the direction A drone IP for the CAP, that we launch the CAP IMMEDIATELY. At the very least, the CAP can move to 150 hexes from the planet, giving the GWS (and thereby the planet) another fifty hexes range for detection, at least in that direction.

Based on SPP's posts, I think we'll have at least a little more time to sort out whether to send the CAP further out or do something different.

SPP: Assuming breaking radio silence is authorized for a recon patrol, are there any limitations (other than active jamming) on a fighter's communications with her base? I'd like to be able to assume that I (or whomever) can communicate basically instantaneously with home
(which, for purposes of the story, I will be referring to as "Haunted House" for radio traffic ).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 05:39 pm: Edit

You guys decide if you want to be in the cap or remain behind. It would be unusual for the flight leader to be in the cap (as he is one of twelve pilots that take that duty) but it's possible.

SPP: EWF or no EWF is fine actually because if it isn't on the Cap then one of the fighters would be fitted with the squadron's sensor pod.

Indeed, commit the Cap to the recon flight. I do expect them to reach the drones at around 300 hexes as you mentioned.

As to the impulse the drones enter that hasn't been determined yet as you will see in the next line to Jeff Wile.

Jeff Wile: You must have missed my request for you to determine the impulse that Speed32 drones should enter so that they are at R9 on turn three (per your analysis above). Perhaps you were waiting for the Cap report on drone speeds?

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

There would be no T-bombs unless there was a ship present.

I have already covered the fact that under the rules for drone bombardment, the Klingons could detect if a ship was present, or if any ships could reach the target before the drones hit.

PDUs by themselves do not have T-bombs.

Sorry.

As to the intercept, the CAP can interecept at 400 hexes (close to four extra moves) since they do not need turns to load drones, load pods, and break atmosphere.

Richard Sherman:

Pending your assignment. If you are assigned send me an E-Mail and we will see what happens.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Richard Sherman:

Sounds like you have the CAP and have been sent on the intercept.

Send me an E-Mail, and we will determine what your reports are going to be.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:02 pm: Edit

"Banshee CAP flight, you are cleared for takeoff."

"Acknowledged." I manage to keep the excitement out of my voice.

Finally! No more fence-checking! Jamming my throttles forward for a full power take-off, I call out to my wingman, "Let's go hunt the gorilla!"

I can almost hear the smiles in the other cockpit.

At Angels 10, we level off for just a few seconds to throw the switches for space flight. Then we boost, attitude up, and - just like that - we're gone into the black abyss.

"Haunted House, this is Banshee 3. We are feet wet."

OOC: Gee, I'm kinda gettin' into this...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Richard Sherman:

Uh . . . You were CAP. That means you were already in space. CAP means "Combat Air Patrol", which we continue to use although technically it is "Combat Space Patrol". So you were always in space, with drones already loaded. At this juncture assumed as two type-I and two type-VI on the fighter, and no Pods, and two type-VI drones and two EW pods (on the megafighter rails so they do not affect the fighter's speed) on the EWF.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Richard Sherman:

Send me an E-Mail so I can send you particulars.

I would try using your profile address, but too many people do not update them, and I get too many "undeliverable" messages back.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:21 pm: Edit

SPP:

Message sent. Crossed with your post here, so ignore my comments regarding ordnance load.

As to the CAP issue, I know I was writing it more like I was "Ready-5." But hey, give me at least a little credit for the stab at creativity...

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:25 pm: Edit

Richard Sherman:

Message sent. Good Luck and good hunting.

Or as the Germans would say: "Hals und bein brecken."

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Richard Sherman;

Your terminology is... peculiar.

"Angels 10" would be 10,000 feet above mean sea level (10,000 msl or flight level 100, depending on the transition altitude). Unless this planet has an atmosphere very disimilar to that of earth, this is way too early to

"throw the switches for space flight."

And why would you level off to do that, anyway?

Yoy don't fence check on the ground before flight (interceptors might (though I doubt it) if the target was in the immediate vicinity, but your target is still hundreds of thousands of miles away).

"Feet wet" means that you have crossed from over land to over water.

"Haunted House" is a dubious choice for a Call Sign. Not unacceptable - but dubious. Two syllables would be more usual and having two different syllables begin with an aspirated consonant "sounds wrong".

Since I'm a lurker on this topic, I refrained from commenting on your (and CFant's) earlier transmissions, but if you're going to base the dialogue on late 20th century combat aviation terminology, you might at least try to get it right.

Sorry if I'm being a jerk about this (and I fully realize I am being a jerk), but improper radio discipline is one thing that gets combat aviators (even us broken down old ex-F-111 navigators/WSOs/EWOs) somewhat agitated. It can literally be a matter of life and death.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Alan Trevor:

I think "Feet Wet" might hold over to define the transition from atmosphere (still technically over the planet) to space flight.