Archive through May 03, 2005
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Archive through May 03, 2005
In this situation, the G1 was a significant factor.
the problem is, SPP was forced to (apparently) divide the Gunboat squadron up to "keep up" with the drone stacks.
if a Fed Police Cutter or Corvette had been responding to the situation, the G1 would have been forced to go "head to head" with a vessel very similar in combat ability...or retreat.
a single overloaded Photon and 3 phaser 1's would seriously challenge the G1's ability to survive (assuming the photon hit...)
single PF's have similarities with star ships...but also some drawbacks. What makes PF's terrifying is a full squadron working together and able to captialize on the massive ability of 6xG1's to "dish out" the damage.
divided and out of range where the gunboats can provide mutual support for each other the G1's are not that significant...witness Chris and Richards confidence in using 6 F-16M's vs 1 G1... and the G1 elected to retreat to a safe distance.
If the G1 mission was to "safe guard" the 28 drones of the drone group to the target, it failed its mission and is hanging around in a vain hope to salvage some shards of honor by killing the F-16 cripple.
No,the G1 hasn't failed. It's drawn away half of the planet's mobile defence, and can continue harressing for a while.
I have to agree with David Slatter here. Even if we had both fighter squadrons, sending groups of six off to fight past one of six G1s and kill drones in one direction leaves two other G1s who can cruise in at speed and do a quick survey of the planets preparations to receive the bombardment. If SPs are hanging out at some distance they can try to kill or prematurely pop some of them.
This gets made worse by the fact that the Defsats, which must at least be in orbit at range 1, are also size class 7 targets. A Defsat eligible for targetting at all (because it has fired) could be targetted by a random shatterpack drone if it is within 8 hexes of the SP when it blossoms. If the SPs are at range 10 from the planet when the drones are reaching range 17-18, then a G1 could pretty easily take an OL disr shot at a SP several turns earler while at range 14+ from the planet. At that range, 2 P-IVs cannot penetrate a shield, and you've got a good chance to save a dozen of your bombardment drones.
Now, we could just take our lumps and accept some random type-VI drones hitting our defsats, because that's only 8 points of damage, after all. But we'll still need to be careful and probably direct the first turn of Defsat launches in one direction, away from the SPs, and with SP detection ranges set low enough they don't notice launches from the Defsats. Say, try to have the SPs blossoming 5-6 hexes away from the planet and set to blossom for a size 7 target within range 5 (for example).
Frank. It is my understanding that the DefSats can't be targetted if not detected. I would assume this would apply to friendly units as well as enemy ones.
David Slatter:
If the Primary mission of the G1 was to ensure the safe delivery of 28 drones to a hex 100 hexes away from the planet... and the G1 allowed banshee flight to kill all 28 drones... I fail to see how you justify it as successfully completing its mission.
distracting the 6 F-16M's from a role in planetary defense is a fringe benifit, but in no way alters the fact that the 28 drones of the drone group got killed and are unable to participate in the mission.
a second "fringe benifit" the G1 got was in preventing the fighters from finding out if there were any other drone waves in route to planet hex side "a"... but again, that is inaddition to the fact that the G1 allowed the fighters to kill all 28 drones (which were after all, the primary mission.)
It should be pointed out that so far, it appears that Banshee flight will be likely to survive this encounter relatively intact (depends on how close the G1 is willing to press its attacks against them to get at the cripple).
Tank breathed a sigh of relief...
"Banshee Leader, Banshee 3. Good to see you! We are coming in hot. Bandit on our six at 22kk. No joy on the drones, but Banshee 6 is all ears. Request instructions."
OOC: SPP, do you have any way to bring back my previous "color" posts that were deleted and send them to me? I can tailor them to fit the present situation and your parameters. Unfortunately, as I thought the thread "dead," I didn't save them...
Chris, if it's ok with you, I'll play both Banshee 3 and 6. Or, if you want, I can just post the whole thing (with SPP's help), especially if I can get my previous deleted posts back. Let me know...
OOC:
Guys, I'd also point out that, with respect to the DEFSAT discussion above, please remember that the maximum DF range of a G1 is 15, and the disruptor is limited to range 10.
Just FYI.
Jeff: If there is indeed only 28 drones coming from each direction then three fighters in four directions could easilly take out those stacks. But the G1, by threatening the CAP drew out of me the rest of Banshee flight. It preserves all the drones from another direction.
=============================
ORDERS from CC:
As of the report from Banshee I want Ghost flight to head out to 75 and launch their first drones when the incoming wave hits R100 from the planet (Impulse 25).
This is contingent on data gather at R150 by the GWS and again at R100.
Ghost flight to be loaded with 2-T1F, 2-T6F and one Phaser pod. Drop pods after firing only if nessasary.
Ghost-A will head out in vector-C and Ghost-B in vector-E.I want them to try and stay ahead of their enemy wave using HET's to create firing opertunities (One late turn folloed by an early turn one). When in close proximity to the planet Ghost-A and B will focus on kill drones coming in from vectors B and F. Planetary systems will fire when able.
GAS shuttles should be in space over B and F. There should be one shatter pack at each of A and D FGB-S. An additional Admin is now ordered to be loaded from teh GMG to FGB-S Annapolis.
This is all ordered as of Banshees report. Modifications may be given depending of the R150 and R100 GWS reports.
============================
CIVILIAN Concerns. Ever since the warning was recieved the Governor and his people have been rushing people to shelters. I allowed the GAS shuttles to assist on the contigency that they remain at ready to go space and enter combat imediately when called. They (GAS) may continue to assist the populous until the drones hit R100 (Turn 1).
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To All:
I'm sorry that I am unable to work up a fiction version of this at this time. I'll try to do that in the future.
Please report things I missed. I'm heading off to work now. I'll check back in this evening.
Loren, if there are gunboats out there with the other drone waves, three fighters are going to get creamed and not be of much use at all. Why divide them? Why send them out far at all? 30 PGs on close in point defense will be a lot better than 15 P-3s trying to keep up with drones and a G1 gunning for them. The planets P4s can knock out a G1 and the fighters can swoop in a pick off the drone swarm there, then switch over to a new facing a repeat.
Richard, you got all my e-mails and what I wanted to do, go ahead and post, as you have all the information while mine is sketchy.
Ok, Chris, but I'm going to wait to hear back from SPP about recovering the two that were deleted before I start posting more...
CFant: First please note that I said these orders are contingent on the R150 and R100 data. If the fighters are at R75 and a G1 appears a R100 the fighters can launch drones imediately. The G1 may not know imediately where the drones are targeted. Also, R100 in in range of the Ph-4 although not much of a threat out there. The fighters will then head in.
The point is that exposing the drones to the fighters offenses longer will result in more drones destroyed. And the fighters will be in a range that G1's will start to experience trouble with the Ph-4s.
If the fighters stay close then they will have less shots at drones and people die. We need to wear down two waves of drones then work on the others with planetary defeses and shatter packs.
WIth only 28 drones coming in on Annapolis in the first wave (and those were destroyed so no Vector A drones in the first wave).
You should not be letting the G1 get on top of you. Like I said, stay ahead of the drones. If you do this right the G1 will not get into effective range of you until it will risk heavier damage from the planet.
Chris, this is just the initial set up and the basic plan. We still need R150 and R100 data from the GWS's. (Which should be at maximum scanning).
Richard, Andy: I have considered both those facts. If the drones will end turn N in the atmosphere, so they impact on impulse 1 of N+1, then at the end of turn N-1 they will be at range 30 or so from the planet and defsats, close enough for the defsats to launch drones at them. That will make the defsats detectable and valid targets for randomly targetted (on size 7) dogfight drones from shatterpacks bursting during turn N. I suspect we'll have to sacrifice a turn of launches from the defsats to avoid having them targetted, or their drones triggering SPs to blossom. Not that bad a problem, because it's just 2-3 more drones, but it's something we have to keep in mind.
As for the G1s, as I said before, the SPs can't afford to be so far from the planet a G1 can't get OL range with its disruptor from range 14 from the planet. At range 13 there's a modest chance two P4s will penetrate a shield. We may also want to set the minimum damage points to blossom to 4-5 to avoid premature detonation from a standard disruptor (R10) or a couple P2s (R15).
Loren, problem with that is that the G1 we found was ahead of the drones by a good margin, the fighters only get shot at the drones by making the gunboat turn, and the only way to do that is to have 5 or 6 drones in the air targeted on it.
Loren,
Say again? Are you ordering Banshee flight to return to base, attempting to stay ahead of the G1 and the drones?
I don't think SPP will allow that, no MATTER WHAT THE RANGES ARE.
Please note the following known range information:
1. Banshee Flight (main) just rendevoused with my element at about 175 hexes from the planet.
2. The G1 is approximately 20-25 hexes "behind" us.
3. The drone wave (if it exists) is approximately 40 hexes behind the G1,or about 235 hexes from the planet.
Please clarify. Also please note that you do not "officially" know yet that the drones are even out there, because the "color" has not been posted yet (well, it was, then it was deleted, and now I'm in the process of trying to get it back up).
I'm confused...or are you talking about Ghost Flight? (If yes, well then...nevermind! 
)
Chris:
I cant speak for Loren, but I would like to observe that we:
1. still do not know if there are, in fact, 5 more drone stacks, and if, indeed they are targeted on Cassandra IV, or even, if they will appear at the 100 hex range from cassandra IV along the cardinal hex rows at the 100 hex point.
we "think" that is what is going to happen, but we do not "know it" yet.
2. also, do not know if there are 5 more G1's "out there" or if they are with each supposed drone wave, leading them or following. its possible that the 1 G1 that you tangled with was a casual PF that "just happened by" at the point where Banshee intercepted the Drone stack (and if you beleive that, I have some swamp land down in Florida that I think you might be interested in.) 
3. the drones appear to be set for a time on target drone strike. if you and ghost flight swarm a drone strike at any given range...the other drone groups will be faster then your F-16M's (by 6 hexes per turn) and will hit the planet before You can "then switch over to a new facing a repeat." As good as you and the pilots of Ghost flight undoubtedly are, you still can only fire each drone, phaser gatling or CHAFF aat the maximum rate permitted under the rules.
Secondly, your F-16M's have a targeting limit when using drones. you may fire up to 2 drones in 1 turn provided thay are targeted on the same target. what we need is enough room for the F-16M's to be able to use all of their drones on different targets...and that means up to 4 game turns plus getting in as many shots as possible using the Gatlings at the point where the gatlings are effective, namely, 14 hexes or less spread out over a turn break.
If the squadron concentrates against 1 drone stack (and ignoring, for the moment, the possible presence of any G1's...)they will no doubt kill all 28 drones in the stack (actually have more anti drone capacity than needed) but won't be in a position to intercept another drone stack comming from another ditection.
I ***think*** loren is gambling that 3 F'16M's in 4 differernt directions will be able to dodge the possible G1's and attack the drones directly in an effort to protect Cassandra IV.
And lastly, the G1's (the ones we dont yet know about) may not want to get all that close to the planet... phaser IV's being what they are... and PF's being what they are... the PF's may not be all that anxious to commit suicide over whata is really nothing more than a harrassment raid.
Unless there is something SPP hasnt told us about yet?!?
About Ghost flight. The Bashee flight thing is resolved alread as I understand it. You killed your 28 drones and there are no other drones within 100 hexes of you.
CFant: That's why everything is contingent of the R150 and R100 reports. IF on turn one impulse 25 a G1 and no drones appear at R100 then we will handle it differently. IF only drones appear then this is the way I'd like it handled. If the G1 then appears behind the drones we'll adjust.
I do understand how thing happened with Banshee flight but I'm not convinced the G1's will escort the drones all the way in. They might.
There are still many possabilities. There could be 11 waves or more coming in, not just waves of 28 down each main vector. Other waves may be much bigger.
In the mean time I'd like Ghost filght at R75 from the planet on Impulse 1 Turn 1 ready to launch drones at incoming targets. After launching drones you may swing back to the planet (or HET if late in the turn). Next turn you should HET again, launch drones and let them get to R15 (each wing A and B). Concentrate all gatling phasers (not pods)on one drone to kill it at R15. (Heavies are limited to R10 but phasers can go out to R15 right?). Swing back planet bound again (drones will be catching up a bit.) At some point I'd like you to arive at the planet in time to swing AROUND the planet. This should make reasonably certain no drones are locked on Ghost flight. I don't want to have one drone take out something that can take out four or more.
Richard Sherman: I'm confused. Did you take out 28 drones and there ore no more in site or not.
SPP: Did you clearify that there is one drones wave coming down each planetary hex side? I don't know that for sure yet right? There could be any number of drones coming down any number of vectors as of this point right?
Loren,
SPP has given you a "sneak-peek" at the resolution of our little sideshow, but it has not been officially posted as yet.
Y'know, now that I think of it, it's kind of unfair to expect a commander to "ignore" certain information until it's made "official" or whatever.
SPP, in order to speed this along, and even though it's not as "exciting," any thought to my previous suggestion of just posting the final tally and moving on? My suggestion:
One fighter (the EWF) crippled, abandoned, then later destroyed when G1 comes back through. One 2-man POIS awaiting recovery. (but Stork's hurt, needs recovery soon, and...)
One fighter damaged, but not crippled (due to the extra 2 points from the mega-pack). One type VI left on the rails. Disengaged to avoid destruction.
4 fighters undamaged. Each has one type VI left on the rails. Under EM.
G1 has minor to moderate damage on shields 2 and 3 (or would it be 5 and 6?). Still has most of it's drones.
Drone wave (or initial drone wave) destroyed, and no evidence of another drone wave behind it for 100 hexes (or whatever).
G1 bugs out once fighters reach max P4 range. (a bit less than 4 turns from end of drone stack engagement).
Thoughts?
As Richard has Banshee well in hand, I am going to change that over to him, as there may still be interesting things for Banshee.
I'll take over Ghost with my Phoenix persona.
Richard, you (alternate you) want to take Ghost 2,4,6 and head in direction E?
I will take 1,3,5 and head in direction C.
As my last duty for Banshee I will request a Space Combat Rescue mission in the heading of Banshee 6.
Chris,
We need to hold up a little until we hear from SPP now.
I kinda skimmed/caught up on this topic and saw some mention of my and Tim Saregent's map program.
Its status is accuratly described by dave Crew.
If we want maps, I can make them, host them or provide expertise on how others can do these things, any combination of the above.
I'll post some stuff for my GAS shuttles as time permits.
Richard Sherman:
You are making an error about the range to the gunboat. It closed up behind the drones (actually, dropped back behind them as they are faster) so that when Banshee engaged the drones it was forced to make a choice, engage the drones or engage the PF at a less than desireable range. As the drones were perceived as an immediate threat to the planet, Chris chose to try to do both, i.e., engage the drones with the phaser-Gs, and try to force back the PF with a spread of drones (the second drone launch by the force).
The result of that I already told you, the Gunboat "showed its hand" by launching another set of counter drones (but after you engaged the drones it launched ballistically) revealing it to be a G1K (only a G1K could launch four drones in one turn and carry a disruptor). The G1 got lucky once more (straight die rolls), the disruptor connected with a fighter, crippling it, the ADD picked off a drone (took two shots, the second at RANGE ONE), the phasers picked off the last two (one die roll of five, had it been a six . . .), the gunboat then headed out to a flank position, from which point it will veer in to disruptor range of the fighters every turn.
The fighters phaser-Gs rolled average (which at this point means that at range zero they did not roll more sixes than would be expected), killing 19 drones, a type-VI from the EWF picked off one of the two drones the PF had added to the stack, the second was hit by two phaser-3 shots on the way in (at speed 32 I could not see him firing a single phaser-3 at range one and risking the drone surviving, so I had to assume that two phaser-3 shots were taken at it at range one, even though that was "overkill" on a dogfight drone, there was no way prior to that point for him to know it was a dogfight drone). The decision to launch the drones at the Gunboat did force it away and kept it from trying to use its phasers on the fighters as well as the disruptor.
At this juncture the fighters have one cripple, are pursuing 11 drones, three of which are damaged and will be finished by a single damage point. (To get all 28, 30 actually due to the gunboat drones, they would have had to use drones, which Chris chose to launch at the Gunboat . . . his call).
They know that the Gunboat hunting them is a G1K, has launched six of its 16 type-VI drones, and has used three of the six shots in its ADD rack. They are, at the end of "the turn" about 160 hexes from the planet, with the drones about two hexes in front of them (if they abandoned the cripple to its fate), the cripple is about 170 hexes from the planet. The Gunboat is angling in for another shot, but is not going to come closer than range eight (it has no real reason to) to any group of two or more "healthy" fighters.
Got posts from SPP, ergo, I assume he wants us to go "on with the show..." so here we go!...
"Banshee 3, Banshee Lead, acknowledged. Come about and join our formation."
"Banshee Flight, Tetra formation on me. Banshee 6, take the slot 10 klicks
back, and provide max ECM. Execute!"
Merlin switched to command channel: "Haunted House, Banshee Lead. Bandit positively identified as G1 gunboat. We are engaging! Advise you monitor FIGHTCOM. Out."
Banshee 5: "I'm in, in, in!"
Banshee 4: "Got your wing, Tex!"
Banshee 6: "I'm in the pipe! EW up!"
Banshee Lead: "Banshees, can the chatter and uncage your drones! Light 'em up and shoot a heavy! Drone away!"
Near simultaneous calls of "Fox 2!" sang out.
...and battle was joined...
The G1 began a slow bank to starboard, and launched two drones of its own. As the Federation drones closed and began to cross paths with the Klingon drones, there was a sudden and violent explosion.
Where there were seven drones, there were now only three drones left, all from the fighters. Then another missile appeared. Impossibly small and impossibly fast, it destroyed yet another drone only 30,000 kilometers from the G1.
As the fighters attempted to close, the G1 fired phasers at the two remaining drones, destroying them both.
Banshee Lead: "Stork, fade 1kk back NOW!"
Merlin knew that all of them were expendable, EXCEPT Banshee 6. They just HAD to find those drones.
"Banshees, pursue! Tex, Joyride, Tank, Stork, fire gats at bandit after his turn! Execute!"
The superior speed of the G1 allowed it to steadily outdistance the fighters. As it completed it's turn heading back from whence it came, 16 different phaser bursts lit up the space between the two antagonists. Although brilliant in it's ferocity, the distance was extreme...
Banshee 3: "Any blood, Fuzzy?"
Banshee 6: "Negative. Very minimal shield damage."
The seconds crept by and the slower Banshees followed the gunboat back again along the same course.
Banshee 3: "Cripes, I'm beginning to feel like a yo-yo. We wastin' our time, Merlin?"
Banshee Lead: "Shut it Tank, and watch your scopes."
Maybe Tank was right. Doubt crept into Merlin's mind. Maybe this is a ruse? Maybe there aren't any drones out here. Maybe the Klingons are
trying to...--
Banshee 6: "VAMPIRE, VAMPIRE, VAMPIRE! Tracks on multiple inbound drones! Intercept course for Cassie Four! I make...28 separate tracks! Tight
formation! Merlin, they're all within ten klicks of each other! Acknowledge!"
Banshee Lead: "Roger, Banshee 6, I see it."
"Haunted House, Banshee Lead. Vampire, Vampire, Vampire! Drones inbound on course for Cassandra IV. Multiple separate tracks, tight stack. Tooh-ate drones inbound, repeat tooh-ate drones. Stack is tooh-for kk from our position, approximately one-ate-zeeroh kk from planetside. Acknowledge!"
OOC:
Well, Loren, there's your confirmation!