SPP:

One additional question:

Can/may I assume that the fighter HET to try to stay close to the remaining drones occurred about impulse 28 - or otherwise close to the end of the turn (establishing your already-identified range 2) - for purposes of an 8 impulse firing delay for the fighters? That would enable a theoretical impulse 4 or 5 shot at range 3 on the drones (and would likely occur a few impulses before the G1 got in the next disruptor shot...).

Alternatively, I'd argue a sooner HET (the impulse after phaser fire, allowing the fighters to stay at range 0 until theoretical "impulse 1"), establishing a range 2 shot "next turn." Which is, of course, better "game-wise"...but not as dramatic.

I'd like to write it the first way, but I'm not sure how you feel about it...

By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:40 pm: Edit

The Kzinti observer speaks again:

Someone ask the battalion intel officer if the Klingons deploy G1K's as casual PF's, or only as part of a full flotilla...

(I suspect the former as it is a variant rather than a version I think - but you could get lucky and learn something .

Cat.

P.S. Also see if Stork can tell if the PF has the shield refit - it just might not in this year (Y182) if you're lucky.

By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Analysis:

SPP wrote: "Did you really need that many turns of specific warning? And if you had them what would you do with them that was going to be any different than what you are doing?"

That last is probably the best analysis of the recon mission to date (surprise!). Given the speed of the fighters, and that they don't really get multiple shots at the drones, a recon mission just makes the fighters vulnerable to any other forces in the area.

Interesting training excercise!

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 01:22 am: Edit

I agree that it was a mistake to send the Cap so far out. I should have had them loiter at 100 or so hexes. We still would have had fighters in the air, WS3 and been a full turn on top of Turn 1 R100.

It was my anniversary tonight. I'm still realing from the cost of dinner. My wife wanted to go to A Place For Steaks, a resturant we went to just after my son was born as sort of a nostalgic thing. $110.75, I had steak and potatoes. My wife has Salmon and my son the childs Red Snapper (he likes fish... go figure).

My wife said to me "People usually buy diamonds and stuff so this is OK, right?"

Ya, I guess.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 01:35 am: Edit

Banshee should know not to try and kill the G1, I hope. They need to get back to the planet. They have reconed the drones and defended themselves. It is entirely possible that there are more drones coming in. They might not be able to get back in time for this wave but will for a possible second wave.

Banshee needs to come back ASAP.

By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 03:50 am: Edit

Loren: To be clear: I did not mean my analysis post to be anything along the lines of 'I told you so!' (in fact, if one checks the archives you'll find a long post from me saying you should do just as you did! .

(I'm not sure you took it that way... or not.

Simply, in hindsight, sending the Cap out so far was 'not a good thing TM'.

This whole exercise does make an interesting 'academy review' exercise in PDU defense.

Respectfully,
CatWhoLeaps.

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 06:18 am: Edit

Captain Stovell paces up and down as the reports of Banshee's recon come in.

"Corporal Jones, please ask all the batteries to charge their phasers and live test them."

"Computer have you any information on the deployment of G1Ks? in percentage used in formal flotillas verses those used in casual operations"

Corporal Jones wondered why he got the Vulcan sure he was fair but so difficult to talk to. Nice uniform you are messing would get a grin from Major Wylie but only draw a quotation from Starfleets dress code from Stovell, oh well.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 11:30 am: Edit

Richard Sherman:

However you wish. Just try to consider the Gunboat's tactics in whatever you do. The crew of the Gunboat are not "legendary ace" status, but they are not stupid either.

Just let me know if this means you are going to quit the topic after doing all that to try to convince me to restart it, or if you are planning to move on to another character.

To all:

I would note that the problems of Banshee flight in its retreat seem to revolve around a rules error. The error was in forgeting that fighters can launch two drones if both are targeted on the same thing and one (or both) is (are) a type-VI(s).

HOWEVER, it should be noted that if the G1 had, in fact, been a standard G1, five drones WOULD have been enough to force it to turn away. If it had already launched the only two drones it could launch at that time (the ones it added to the stack), it would not have had two counter drones to down two of the drones that banshee Flight launched at it. In such case, it would have in general been forced to hold its own drones (not put any in the stack) in order to try to get its "shot".

I will add that if Banshee had launched six drones (or seven) at the Gunboat, I think it would have been forced to do little more than shadow Banshee as it moved back towards the planet.

Banshee's problems stem from the fact that it failed to drive off the Gunboat when it attacked the drone stack, and that the 50% chance of a disruptor hit paid off for the Gunboat.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Major Wile activated the computer terminal, and keyed in an inquiry:

please list the expected time(Annapolis time zone) the Klingon Drone strikes(first wave) is expected to enter Cassandra IV atmosphere.

please list the expected time left until the Klingon drone strikes(first wave) enters the 101 Hex range from planet Cassandra IV.

Please list the expected time left until the Drone strikes (first wave) enters the 150 hex range from Cassandra IV.

OOC

Steve Petrick:

It might be helpful to the discussion if we could have a schedule update showing the tactical situation with respect to the drone strike (assuming there is one).

I'm not asking for a sector wide update...but IIRC you mentioned earlier that the range to Banshee flight where the G1-K and drone interaction occured was 175 hexes from Cassandra IV.

If my understanding is correct... then from that "point in time" it would be 25 impulses til the drones Banshee flight encountered would have entered the 150 hex range of Cassandra IV GWSs...and I would assume the same point in time when the other 5 drone strikes would also enter the 150 hex detection range.

If true, our "count down" would be 25 impulses to 150 hex range. 74 impulses until the 101 hex range.

and 174 impulses until drones encounter edge of atmosphere...(roughly)

Just want people to remember that there is a count down...and the "clock" is ticking...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:20 pm: Edit

So the crippled F-16 was just barly crippled?

I expect the disruptor hit did 4 points (or OL?) and two ph-2 caused enough to hit it with 7 points?

It fair to me that Banshee took the chance to treat it as a plain G1. They did, after all, want to conserve drones for killing enemy drones. The mision being "Save the Planet."

By Frank DeMaris (Kemaris) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Loren: If I read correctly, the G1 hit with an OL disr from range 4. That's 8 points, which easily cripples an 11-damage fighter. The phasers were used in fighting through Banshee's drones, along with the ADD and counter-drones.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Loren Knight:

The Gunboat fought through the drones that Banshee launched at it when it (Banshee) was engaging the drone stack in order to fire an overloaded disruptor at range eight with a shift of one against it (the fighter's had six ECM since they did not need ECCM to kill drones, at least as I understood it, although obviously they also had two points of ECCM). The disruptor at that range did eight points of damage. The Gunboat had to use its phasers to kill drones launched by the fighters in order to attain that range four shot with the disruptor.

Jeff Wile:

As I have said, I wanted to get Banshee turned around and chasing the drones back to the planet, having to deal with their cripple, and having that Gunboat on their flank looking to make things worse before I got into the rest of the set up (i.e., what reports you will begin to get from the GWS stations).

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Banshee 6: "Confirm one-nine kills. Drone wave now zeeroh-nine tracks. Three are damaged. Transmitting tracking data to all fighters."

Banshee Lead: "Acknowledged. All Banshee's, rapid recycle phasers. Maintain pursuit on the stack."

Banshee 2: "Bandit pulling ahead on parallel course, Merlin! He's setting up for another run!"

Banshee Lead: "Tank, move off 8 kk to starboard and maintain best speed for home. We'll try to screen you."

Banshee 3: [click-click]

Banshee 4: "Guns up!"
Banshee 5: "Charged!"
Banshee 1: "Watson, Joyride, Stork, take undamaged targets in track order! Tex, take the damaged ones! FIRE!"

All the antogonists were now moving at rapid speed in the direction of Noumea. At 2kk from the remaining undamaged drones, Watson, Joyride, and Stork spat white-hot phaser fire at the six undamaged drones, each engaging two drones. Tex added 3 quick bursts into the damaged ones. Nine tracks became one lone target, and it was damaged. A second later, it too vaporized as Tex finished it off.

Banshee 1: "Haunted House, this is Banshee 1. Inbound drone wave destroyed."

Banshee 4: "Woohoo!"
Banshee 1: "Good shooting, Banshees!"
Banshee 6: "Bandit making a run! 12kk and closing on the oblique!"
Banshee 1: "Stork, move off 3kk starboard! Max ECM to fighters! Heads up, Tank! Banshees tighten up" Merlin fingered his trigger. Would he get a chance to slay the dragon?

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 12:50 pm: Edit

SPP:

Please send me a confidential e-mail as to whether there is another drone wave behind the first. I need to know how the G1 is going to react if the EWF is sent back on a reverse course separate from the remaining 4 undamaged (and 1 damaged) fighters.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 01:00 pm: Edit

"Keep an eye on that gunboat Boys. I want you all back in one piece."

All the orders I could give for the moment had been given and now time slowed turning fate filled seconds into eternities. Entire lives could be remembered and lost during these seconds. I remembered each one of their faces though I tried not to.

I listened carefully. Having called the strategy I could only listen to the action piping in over subspace waiting for the moment when seconds would be precious little room for action as time speeds up to a dizzying blur.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Richard Shermin: I bet it take only a quarter second to type "Banshee" now.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Phoenix listened in on the squak channel for the squadron. Listening to Banshee flight engage made the blood rush and he felt he fingets tighten on the controls.

He was now anxious to get into the fray. But now, with half his flight on the other side a the planet, he was not sure what the day would bring.

"Ghost Alphas!, tighten up and stay alert. Bandits are about and we need to seem em first."

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 02:48 pm: Edit

The sergeant rapped on the Lieutenant's door, "Base is asking for a live test on all phasers sir." Lt. Frazier opened the door and stepped out of his office, "Very well, anything from Banshee?" "Yes sir, they found a bandit and meet up with the remaining flight." Both men went into the main room.

"People, we have a live test fire check, I want it in 2 minutes. Corporal (addressing the sensor tech), anything on track?" "Nothing showing in our area sir." "Are we tied into the GWs's sensors?" "Yes sir, I think Banshee found a escorting PF running passive or with max ECM." "Can we increase our counters [ECCM]?" "Only with the help from a GWS sensor [lending additional ECCM] and those are currently scanning as they have a longer range."

"Sir," the sergeant interrupted, "Banshee is under the 200 limit and that the bandit is a G1K, which still places them outside our effective scanning range." "Right, right, any word on a drone wave?" "Yes, they reported engaging both the G1 and the drone wave..." "No, they don't have the firepower for both, any hit or crippled?" "One crippled so far."

"Sir, all boards show green, live test fire - starting, NOW!"

"Good, 120 seconds on the dot. ETA on drones?" "No more than 10, I'd say sir, probably less." "Kay, lets stay on max counter, I want to double fire the main gun as soon as they apprear... Wait, anything on the other flight?"

By Douglas E. Lampert (Dlampert) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Lampert: Chief, warm the phasers.

(Pause)

CPO Wei: Capacitor is on line.

Lampert: Very well. All guns, prepare for one test shot on debris object track 2173, quarter power on the main gun. Repeat, one live test shot on DOT-2173, unit one at point defense power. Ready, FIRE.

Wei: All phasers confirm fire, number 4 was off nominal by thirty nanorads. I'm on it

Lampert: Right. Report to Captain Stoval, battery A is ready to engage.

By Erik Underkofler (Eunderko) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 05:24 pm: Edit

From SPP's note above:
"The Gunboat fought through the drones that Banshee launched at it when it (Banshee) was engaging the drone stack in order to fire an overloaded disruptor at range eight..."
and
"The disruptor at that range did eight points of damage."
I thought max damage was 6 at range 8. Am I missing something

By Frank DeMaris (Kemaris) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Erik: I noticed the same thing, but SPP's second range reference indicates the gunboat fired from range 4.

---

Quote:

The Gunboat had to use its phasers to kill drones launched by the fighters in order to attain that range four shot with the disruptor.

---

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Frank DeMaris is correct.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Deleted

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 02:34 am: Edit

Banshee 2: "Here he comes!"

Merlin recognized that the gunboat had the edge in speed, and even with his phaser up, the gunboat outgunned them, at least temporarily. He had to make a decision...

Banshee Lead: "Stork, maintain status. Banshees...JINK!"

The four fighters in formation suddenly began rapid, but small movements - left to right, up to down, changing then correcting attitude - all designed to confuse the targeting scanners of the G1.

Banshee 4: "Watch out, he's coming for a close pass!"
Banshee 6: "Vampire! Two tracks in the water!"
Banshee 2: "Incoming!"

The G1 closed to 3kk on the formation, escorting its own drones, and opened fire with phasers, disruptor, and even an anti-drone. Unfortunately, the violent maneuvers degraded much of the weapons fire, causing the normally annoyingly accurate disruptor to go wide, and degrading the phasers. Even the ADD, which did impact, seemed to do less than expected damage. Nevertheless, Banshee 4 was hurt.

OOC: [+2 shift to G1 fire. Rolls: OL DISR=3->5;miss; P2s=1,5->3,6(1shift), ADD=1 (not affected), damage roll=1]

Suddenly, the gunboat sharply veered away, it's smaller messengers of mayhem closing the final distance to their prey. Merlin wasn't going to get any kind of shot at slaying the dragon. No time to drop erractics. He had to chance it, get the best firing solution he could, and emptied his phaser charge into the drones.

OOC: [+1 shift to F16 fire, 2 P3 to each drone, range 1. Rolls: 2,2->3,3; 5,6->6,6(1shift). 2 typeVI drones destroyed.]

Banshee 4: "I'm hit!"
Banshee Lead: "Keep it together, Joyride! Status!"
Banshee 6: "Bandit moving off to reload!"
Banshee 4: "I think I'm all right. Panels still show green. I've got some scoring...long-range sensor's a little wobbly. Structural integrity still at about five-five percent. Engines still up full."
Banshee Lead: "Acknowledged. Stay with us Joyride. Tank, how you making?"
Banshee 3: "Still with you. 8 kk out to starboard and about 5 kk back, and slipping."
Banshee Lead: "Tank, is your POIS still green?"

There was a few agonizing moments of silence on the net. Everyone knew what Merlin was thinking, especially Tank. Tank also knew that he would not leave his crippled and helpless fighter until his fear of using the POIS was overcome by his fear of staying in his damaged cockpit.

Banshee 3: "Computer says it's undamaged."


Merlin quickly ran through his options. There weren't many. He didn't know if there were more drones inbound. He didn't know if there were other gunboats - or even worse - out there. He didn't know if they could all survive if the stayed to help Tank. What he did know is that Noumea needed as many of her fighters as she could keep. He need knowledge AND safe return. He had neither; he needed to earn them. He knew how. He switched to COMMANDCOM.

Banshee Lead: "Haunted House, Banshee One. Drone wave destroyed. Attempting to return to base. Distance One-Six-Tooh kk. ETA Six minutes, Ten seconds. We are still engaged with Gee-One-Kay. One fighter crippled and out, one fighter damaged. Request rescue and recovery shuttle. Out."

Six minutes to home. About three minutes until planetary outer phaser envelope. A few seconds until we show up on the planetary scopes. A few seconds until the dragon comes back to breathe more fire on us.

Banshee Lead: "Fuzzy, Stork, we need to be sure there isn't anything else out there. When the gunboat makes his next run, launch your drone, then reverse course and go to maximum sensor sweep. Don't engage anything! If you get in trouble, burn your reserves and disengage. Acknowledge."
Banshee 6: [click-click]
Banshee Lead: "Banshees, drop erratics."

The dragon was flying back for them...

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Friday, May 06, 2005 - 08:22 am: Edit

OOC-

Richard nice story I'm enjoying it.

If I had been playing it I'm not sure I would have pushed the attack with the G1 to range 3.
A mid-turn speed change should allow the fighters to maintain that range long enough to stop erractic manoeuvrers and get a return shot 16 pulses from the remaining fighters, maybe a bit less to hold some defense against more type VI's from the G1. Still even with a bit of reinforcement and a one shift the PF should lose half a rear shield.
On the other hand I think the G1 could come in with 3 ECCM so would I think only have a one shift? With the EWF crippled and no pods the fighters are 2 ECM (+4 for erractics) and 2 ECCM? or does the mega pack give a built in pod? So overall your result would be very similar to mine.

Anyone else have a different view on how the encounter could have gone?