Loren, If it wouldnt be too rude... lets consider the "spot" that you are putting Ghost flight (and Chris) into...

say that flight A of Ghost flight is at 45 hexes range from base along hex row spine 'C' and stools around at max speed for 2-3 turns until the drones and the possible G-1 shows up... you then (IIUC) want the 3 fighters to each lob a drone at a target drone, and retreat at max speed, and the next legal turn, HET lob another drone... and repeat the process.

I don't know if Chris has any objections... but the G-1 will have its point defenses out of range of any other targets BUT the 3 drones launched by ghost flight.

The G-1 wont know if its been targeted...or if the drones were targeted (unless it moves away from the drone stack)... but either way... it could use direct fire weapons (like phasers or disrupters) to take out the drones and not deplete its consumable weapons load (any drones it might have loaded in racks).

The net result is Ghost flight (both flights A and B) expend 25% to 50% of the available drones for zero results.... no drones killed, no damage to the G-1's and no time to have the F-16M's land to reload... or worse... be forced to run into the shatter packs that you have ordered prepared.

I think your deployment was as best we could do with the information we had available...and if no G-1's were present...would have allowed ghost flight the opportunity to kill the maximum number of drones in 2 different directions.

but expecting 3 F-16M's to go up against a G-1 will get 1 crippled...possibly killed... and you will not be able to shoot drones without giving the G-1 the opportunity to either kill your t1's or T6's...

the choice really comes down to target the Gunboat in an effort to kill, cripple or drive it away from the drones... or have Ghost flight recombine at a hex 45 hexes away from Cassandra IV along hex row 'D' where they can kill all of the drones, drive off the G-1 and (depending on conditions) possibly hurt it.

leaving the 2 flights divided is asking SPP to defeat them in detail... and risk having all the drones along all three approaches hit the planet.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 12:58 pm: Edit

/quote{I wish to minimize the destruction on A, C and E. And attempt to avoid devestation on the rest of the other three sectors.}

Per Loren's general analysis, and lacking different orders from Col. Knight in-game, the GAS shuttles would be orbiting Cassandra IV at the altitude of 1 hex over hex-sides B,D,F. That gives two of three shuttle P-3s at R1 to defend any given populated area.

If my previous writing were ever rewritten, that would be included in the place when Lt. Trauger clarifies his orders to his pilots.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 01:01 pm: Edit

SPP:

If the fighters are 38 hexes ahead of the PF's (if they are there) and the drone stacks (in directions 'C' and 'E'... would they have the ability to use Tactical Intelligence to evaluate the drone strike (numbers, speed, heading?) or determine if a PF is present?

Ghost flight (by virtue of being closer to the targets) might be able to see something that we (on the planet) cant yet.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Jeff Wile:

Well, if one of them had that Sensor Pod . . ., otherwise, nope. Fighters count as "manned shuttles" which means their level A data runs out at 35 hexes. The range to the drones is 38+, the range to the "objects" between the drones and the fighters is probably a lot less than 35, but there is a lot of EW interference, bumping things back up above 35.

Have a nice day.

John Trauger:

Of course as the LT, you MIGHT have decided to go along with the one of the shuttles, or perhaps replace a pilot or gunner who was "sick" with whatever was going around. You can also remain on the base rallying the maintenance crews for a possible fight, or having the deck crews readying their repair tools.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Wow...

If "something" had gotten to within in "a lot less than 38 hexes" of Chris Fant, I'd have expected Chris to do something (not sure "what")...but it just seems odd that Chris would let an enemy unit creep up behind him where his drones are ineffective...(IIRC valid targets of a F-16M mounted drones, either tI or t6 must be in the FA arc).

And thank you, I am "having a nice day"... but it sounds like Chris is going to get rather busy soon.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 04:38 pm: Edit

Crouched in his foxhole, Captain Grafton "pinged" the security elements outside the base complexes.

Annapolis OK
C (whatever) OK
D (whatever) OK
E (Whatever) OK

Where are those mythological Dagger Teams?

The Mobile elements of Major Ford and Captain Chabot are still responding, so what can be going on?

"Crap, this is making my head hurt," he thought

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 04:54 pm: Edit

EDITED TO CORRECT THE FACT THAT THE FIGHTERS HAVE PHASER PODS:


Jeff Wile:

Why would Chris be getting "rather busy soon"?

He was recalled from range 100, and obeyed his orders.

His fighters, as has been noted, through the use of mid-turn speed changes can attain an effective speed of 26 (it would be 27, but the fighters are losing one point of speed due to the phaser-pods).

So the drones that are 38 hexes away would require SEVEN TURNS to "catch" his fighters if they simply ran straight away. If they are now at 87 hexes from the planet moving speed 26, they will reach 45 hexes from the planet somewhere in the middle of Turn #2, and could easily be within 35 hexes of the planet by the end of Turn #2 if they so chose, within nine hexes by the end of Turn #3.

Of course, dumping the phaser pods would let them move a hex a turn faster.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 05:01 pm: Edit

"Yeoman" said Major wile turning away from the tactical display for a moment.

"Please check in with Senior Gunner Demaris, I want his status, the status of the GWS-B. Make sure he knows that the Drones and "unidentified objects" are approaching the 100 hex mark. Its important that those things get ID'd ASAP and the information reported to the battalion immediately. thank you."

and almost an after thought..." oh, and yeoman, get a message to Major Ford, it would be helpful for CC to be updated on the numbers of civilians in the bombshelters... by hex side. It might be a factor in Col Knights decisions and if we need it, we wont have time to wait for the results. Thank you."

looking at the tactical disply, Major Wile gritted his teeth in frustration at the lack of information the 429th had on the enemy forces.

A single police cruiser would have had the speed to perform the recon of several of the drone stacks... and far enough away (because of the speed differences between the G-1's and the fast drones) where the G-1's wouldnt be close enough to the stacks to defend them.

If only, what if, had we had... same old story.

this is making my head hurt, he thought.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 05:56 pm: Edit

SPP: CFAnt was recalled from 75 hexes. I never ordered him out to 100.

Turn one is supposed to be when the drones reach 100 hexes (imp. 25).

Ghost flight was turned back from 75 to 45 on turn zero.

I pinky swear. It's up there in the text.

I have to do a thurough read through of todays post tonight. I just got a couple minutes this time. Glad I caught that though.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Loren Knight:

Not a problem.

But I cannot go any further until I know what you intend to do on Turn #1.

So during Turn #0 the fighters moved back to range 62 (13 hexes), and at the start of Turn #1 will be considered to be at the distance.

Remember, while specifics are needed on some things (start hex of any scatter packs, how fast they are moving, and targeting instructions must be provided for example). A lot of things for Turn #1 can be fairly general (targeting orders to your gun crews), i.e., shoot at a drone, shoot at a whatever those things are in front of the drones, hold your fire, etc. Telling the fighters to continue closing to range "X" to the planet before turning or what have you.

Remember, this is NOT "Der Tag" where the Klingon Imperial Marines will come to set up light housekeeping, this is more for role play and tactical discussion and build up of background on the running and operations of a PDU. While the Klingons are going to operate with "intelligence" (i.e., they are not going to do stupid things so that your guys can be the "heroes", the only way you are going to be annihilated here is if you guys make really big mistakes. You have made some so far, and it is going to hurt, but I do not see the planet being rated as "devastated" as a result of this attack.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 06:49 pm: Edit

Banshee 2: "He's turned in again! 16kk and closing!"

Merlin knew that they were going to have to earn their way back home. He could only hope that the G1 would choose to break off once in maximum range of those big planetary phasers.

Banshee Lead: "Banshee 6, Launch!"
Banshee 6: "Fox 1!"
Banshee Lead: "All Banshees, Launch!"

5 drones, timed to move together despite Banshee 6's flank position, sped towards the gunboat. Once again, the G1 launched 2 drones and slipped behind them. In a few more moments, an anti-drone sped out, followed by defensive phaser fire, followed by mutual drone annihilation.

(OOC: ADD roll, range 3: 3, hit. drone destroyed. Phasers and counter-drones were auto-kills).

The fighters gained a few precious hexes, but still the gunboat came. Again it spat it's disruptor, this time at Merlin.

And, miraculously, missed again.

(OOC: OL disruptor, range 8, no EW shift, roll: 6. Miss.)

The gunboat turned out to avoid reprisal, but not before the fighters finally got a chance to fight back.

"Fire!"
"Guns, guns, guns!"

Pushing back to V-max, four fighters (all but Banshee 6) maintained the range for a few precious moments. Nevertheless, all fighters opened up. 20 Phasers shot out at long range, but scored little damage.

(OOC: 16 P3 @ range 8; 4 P3 @ range 11, no shift. Rolls: 4,4,5,3,2,6,1,1,5,2,3,4,2,6,3,1; 5,5,1,4. total damage to G1 = 7 points, shield #3.)

Twice we were lucky, Merlin thought, but still far from home. We've got no drones left. The gunboat has plenty of time. We have to get home with something left.

Banshee Lead: "Haunted House, Banshee 1. We are now One-Tooh-For kk from feet dry. Outer Phaser envelope in Five-three seconds."

The bandit was coming back. Merlin was running out of options.
------------------------------

Tank watched his scope as the rest of his flight moved off, taking their tormentor with them. Good luck, guys...

For his part, the old bird was barely holding together. He could barely make a little over Warp 2.3. By the time he saw planet-side - if he saw planetside - the attack would be over. He was just a spectator now, and with a lousy view at that.

Unless his friend, The G1, came back after he was through with his flight-mates. That thought caused Tank to begin shutting down his hardware; everything but life support and engines. He adjusted course from 180 true to 190, hoping the course change would throw off any pursuers. It would take him longer to get home; but it might get him home. Maybe.

Tank checked his POIS again.

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 07:07 pm: Edit

Major Wile:

And if a police cutter had been nearby, the Klingons might not have launched the strike at all. Remember, they can detect such potential problems further than they can launch such a strike.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 08:30 pm: Edit

SPP:

#1. Chris could get "real busy" if he ends up between Col Knights shatter packs and the drone strike (with or without the PF). if Chris turns away from Cassandra IV to clear the shatter pack detection zone (I mean, to keep out of range of the shatter packs type 6 drones). If he turns early to stay out of range... the PF will have an opportunity to catch up to ghost flight A (and B also, if they use the same manuver plot relative to the planet).

#2. I could have lived with that option! the Federation POL has always been a sentimental favorite of mine, from back in the days when we were still using the designers edition of SFB's.

By John Erwin Hacker (Godzillaking) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Hi everyone:

Is anyone up to doing up an SSD of one of these?.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 10:59 pm: Edit

"SIR!" "Yes Corporal." "I think I have a better firing solution, sir." "Really? What would that be?" "Well, sir, if the ETA is correct, then we could almost fire on a once per cycle and get a better firing solution." The sergeant walked over to look over the corporal's shoulder and studied the screen.

The lieutenant looked down and the Sensor Tech, "Range?" "Still outside our envelope but near the 110 marker from the GWS." "Sergeant?" "His info looks good, we can fire at the 100 marker followed by firing at the 70 and 40 markers. After that we could refire at the 28 or 25 marker though if that G1 is still escorting..."

"Well curse me for a novice." "??" "An old expression for locking oneself into a, well, non-optimal solution." "Oh, a knee-jerk reaction, eh." "Not quite, good job there, now, any other suggessions? Anyone?" The Lieutenant looked around the room. "All right then, let's get it locked down, there's not much time left."

By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Jeff: I would suggest simply making sure SC6 is not one of the acceptable targets for the shatterpack. While a shatterpack can pick friendlies as targets, it still does so based on the SC programming.

I would also think long and hard about whether to include SC5 - that might hit PF's, but would also target your ground bases - not good.

SC7 only is probably the go. Use them purely as anti-drone weapons and use your other weapons for anti-anything else. They may target your defsats though...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:31 pm: Edit

David Crew, and that is a helpful suggestion... but we also have to remember that the Def Sats will be firing drones... and we dont want the shatter packs type 6 drones to target any of the def sat drones.

I just want to avoid the situation where we are shooting at ourselves, or killing our own drones.

By Christopher E. Fant (Cfant) on Monday, May 09, 2005 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Or our own pilots

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 03:37 am: Edit

Guys,

At this point, I can't post anything more "color" for Banshee flight, as the next chapter in the engagement (towards the end of it, actually) will put the fighters into the outer envelope of the planetary phasers (IOW, 100 hexes or less).

I do have SPP's instructions on what "my" G1 is going to do for the next two "steps," but I don't want to run my group ahead of the other inbound drones and gunboats. It could screw up the 'sequence of play' so to speak.

So do your stuff, and when the drones are about 80 hexes out or so, I'll post more.

By Paul Stovell (Pauls) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 05:17 am: Edit

The shatterpacks set up are the most critical "pre-game" thing we have to do.

I think the task is impossible.

Set them to engage SC7 and they will get set off by a pair of type-6 from the G1's. Even if we are careful not to set them off by own drones.
Set them for the SC5 and they may never be triggered.

By David Crew (Catwholeaps) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 06:53 am: Edit

Note on the shatterpacks: The shuttle (which is intelligent - sort of) determines when they trigger. It WON'T trigger on friendly targets. IT acts just like a normal scatterpack. Thus you can launch all the friendly drones you like. They won't TRIGGER the shatterpack.

ONCE the shatterpack triggers however - friendly drones CAN be acceptable targets - so simply make sure there are no friendly drones within range 8 when the trigger condition is met.

Even better - launch all your friendly drones onto one side of the planet, and have the shatterpacks cover the other side. The planet should shield the shatterpacks from being able to lock-on to friendly drones.

I would also have the shatterpacks triggered only at a VERY close range (like range 3 or 2 if you are brave and won't get a 3->1 jump). That way you have plenty of time to kill the 'pair of type 6 from the G1's' before they get into trigger range of the shatterpacks. If the G1 is at range 3 to the shatterpack when it launches (which is at range 1 to the planet) then... Shouldn't the G1 have other things to occupy it? Like a pair of P-IV's?

Lets also look at launching the shatterpacks. It takes a turn for them to lift off, a turn to climb through the atmosphere and then they leave the atmosphere on their first move on the third turn.

The drones will cross the 100 hex limit on 1.25 (which is a really bad impulse - but we digress). They will impact the planet surface on 5.01 so had better be destroyed by 4.32, after entering the atmosphere on 4.28. The shatterpacks don't NEED to be launched turn 1 at all. They can leave the atmosphere on 4.04 (if speed 8 A-Admins) or 4.06 (if speed 6 admins) after being launched turn 2 (announced in 2.01). You don't really want them to move too fast - so speed 2 will have them leave the atmosphere on 4.16 and blossom before they move again (speed 1 and they will trigger in atmosphere and crash).

Plan for the shatterpacks to blossom one hex from the planet, when the drones are 3 hexes away (from the planet, two from the shatterpacks) on 4.25. Make sure you've left 10-12 drones for the shatterpacks to engage (probably not a problem!) - just ignore the first 12 drones!

This will work well for one shatterpack each from Anapolis and Dallas. That way their targetting won't overlap.

The third shatterpack you may want to launch earlier so it triggers earlier i.e. is further from the planet when it triggers. Launch it turn 1, so that it is 3 hexes from the planet on 4.16 (if it leaves the atmosphere at speed 2) and you shouldn't have problems (it will trigger and destroy drones before the other two trigger).

Summary: Launch one shatterpack (S1) from Annapolis turn 1 - SC7 targets, random targetting, speed 2. Send it off ballistically in direction B - so it will be in 2413B by 4.16 (if the planet is in 2215). Launch the other two shatterpacks (one from annapolis (S2), one from dallas (S3)) on turn 2, Dallas ballistically in direction D, Annapolis in direction F. They will be in 2216D and 2214A on 4.16.

Have S1 trigger at range 3, S2 and S3 trigger at range 2. Make sure you leave some drones for them to kill - You don't want drones from direction C triggering S1 and S2 at the same time (drones from direction B will trigger S1 first - so that is OK).

Anyway - that is my advice.

The G1's may try to whack the shuttles with disruptors from range 8 - but there isn't much you can do about that...

Kzinti Observer Cat.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 08:57 am: Edit

David Crew: One (gutsy) thing Col Knight could do...would be to "hold" on the launch order for the shatter packs until he knows what the G-1's are doing.

there are 3 phaser IV's and 5 G-1's on approach (the 6th G-1K was delayed by Banshee flight)... if the G-1's close to range 25 hexes or less, the Phaser IV's will begin to be effective. (of course they still only get 1 shot per turn...)

once the drone stacks and the Gunboats close to within 75 hexes (2+ turns of movement) we will know better about the composition of the enemy formations. if the G-1's (at that point ) are "Behind" the drone stacks (meaning they are farther from Cassandra IV than the drones are) the shatter packs could be launched with targeting set for size class 7... and be relatively immune from counter fire from the G-1's.

If the G-1's are "mixed in" the drone stacks... it be comes somewhat more "tricky" but the same size class targeting would work but there would be a greater chance that the G-1's could kill the shatter packs before they "blossom".

If the gunboats lead the drones by a number of hexes, they could kill the shatter packs before the drones are in range of the t6 drones... and unless the phaser IV's can kill or cripple 3 of the PF's there is really very little that we could do about it.

we also have to be concerned about the Def Sats drones... launch early before the shatter packs blossom... target the drone strikes... or sacrifice the drones in an attempt to "drove off" the gunboats...with only 3 def Sats there is little chance to saturate the point defenses of 5 G-1's unless we concentrate on only 1 or 2 of the G-1's.

By Richard Wells (Rwwells) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 09:52 am: Edit

Or hold off on making these decisions until quite late in the action. The shatterpacks are only delayed 8 impulses before deploying so we should have a very good handle on the situation then. Making sure the scatterpacks don't target any drones launched by the DefSats might be more complicated. Though if the scatterpacks try to blossom with targets at range 8, that still leaves more than the 6 impulses the DefSats need to deploy all their drones.

I would target the shatterpacks on drones; the G-1s could easily slide back out of dogfight drone range. But Col. Knight still has plenty of time to make that decision.

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 10:26 am: Edit

I would debate the effectiveness of 2 bearing P4 vs a PF at range over 25. They'd average about 1 point? 3/2/1/0/0/0/ EM plus 1 ecm (they are already nimble so they get 2 free ecm) means 7 ecm...

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Eratic manuvers (EM) cuts both ways... if the G-1's are using EM and making efforts to avoid taking damage... they lose certain abilities because of the EM...like use of heavy weapon and drone launching ability (IIRC).

there is still the danger that the G-1's don't use EM and trust that the phaser IV's miss or only do minor damage (well as minor as phaser IV's can get at less than 25 hex range...)