Archive through May 22, 2005
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Rules:
Orbital Defense Platforms:
Archive through May 22, 2005
Frank De Maris:
Disregard about the E-Mail. A glitch in the E-Mail system delayed your missive. I got it and have answered.
Michael Grafton: Remember that the GWS's each have one transporter. Also, I'm wondering why you sent a HWS to deal witinvestigating the Governors situation. A simple BP would have been fine for that and the HWS would have been better stationed at B or F or at the GMG. Please, never send an HWS on a recon mission. But, what's done is done.
==========================
"Don't be surprized, Grafton. Thay can't launch drones while at EM. Keep an eye on them, that's what's next I'd guess."
"Ghost flight A/B, be aware of possible incoming drones. Gunboats seem to have disengaged EM. Target could be you or the planet. Niether is acceptable. CC out."
ooc
I seem to have jumped a turn. I thought we were starting when then drones hit 100 not at the start of the turn that they will reach 100.
No worries but....
Just read my in character's missives as later this turn. I'll maybe insert some action with civilains or similar if I get a good idea.
Captain Stovell stands in limbo
re: G1's ceasing EM. If they could only spot incomming drones at 15 hexes and they were G1K's they would only have time for one counter drone per rack rather than two. Other sorts of G1 as Loren points out can launch ballistic drones at the planet from 96 hexes to add to our woes or may even have nasty special drones to trouble our fighters.
OOC
Master Gunner DeMaris will probably have trouble living this down afterwards, but if the PFs are more than about 30 hexes away (I forget where the exact break is) they have no reason to use EM because they get the same EW benefit from the Small Target Modifier and EM and STM do not stack. So, we can probably muffle or drop discussion of why the PFs would drop out of EM, because they weren't and didn't.
Loren, As i have tried to show, ALL I have left are HWS. It was either send the GMG HWS or the NG HWS. Given the problems we have with the Gov and crew, I thought regulars might be preferable... I do NOT have "operational" control of the BPs from the various bases. I have ASKED them to deploy 1 per base outside and AFAIK they have done so...
If I had known we were going to be defending the B and F hexsides, I owuld have deployed regular BPs there and kept the HWS for A and D. I am responding piecemeal to orders. I have NOT recieved a general defense plan. I was planning to keep the HWS ready to respond to confirmed contacts.
I do not have control of GWS transporters.
ALSO, do you plan to remain in the GMG?
Mike
Loren wrote "Remember that the GWS's each have one transporter. Also, I'm wondering why you sent a HWS to deal witinvestigating the Governors situation. A simple BP would have been fine for that and the HWS would have been better stationed at B or F or at the GMG. Please, never send an HWS on a recon mission. But, what's done is done.
Michael Grafton:
You sent Sgt. ROCK with his squad?
THE Sgt. Rock?
We have Sgt. Rock on the planet?
SPP, I would strongly advise you withdraw immediately. Any hope of you doing damage to the planet, or having even the pinky toe of one Klingon set foot on the planet and remain intact is now lost.
Sgt. Rock makes any legendary ground forces officer look like a butter-bar fresh from West Point.
'nuff said.
BTW, I don't suppose we've got a "Captain Steve Rogers" anywhere planetside, and a guy on a surfboard in orbit, do we?
Well, the problem with having Sgt Rock is that AFAIK he pays little attention to officers.
With Sgt. Rock, we don't need no stinkin' officers...oops, did I say that out loud?
SPP,
with respect, I don't think any of the bases should yet be having crowd problems yet.
How much time has passed since we first got word of the attack? Maybe 10 min?
Time has to be allowed for word of the attack to spread, people to decided to seek shelter under the bases' shields and the stampede to start.
Then they have to actually make their way to a bases. The Feds didn't set up right in a town did they? I wouldn't expect so. I'd expect military bases to be a bit remote for security reasons.
Even 10 min from town to closest base gate would effectively bar any crowd from forming at this point. They simply wouldn't have time to get to their destination.
They may be in-route however.
What sort of shelter facilities are there for the civilian population? Do those have shields?
John Trauger:
No need to be respectful.
What you are running into is that there has always been something of a disconnect between the perception of how fast things are supposed to be in playing SFB and what goes on "behind the scenes". See for example the Ground Combat in "Battle for Rimworld" vice the action in space. Note that there was sufficient time for the Gorn leader to visit the power station where the young Gorn had been killed, rally the other Gorns, arm them, and march towards the sound of the guns. A period during which the officer in charge of the GCVs had time to fight it out with the Andromedan GCVs, abandon his disabled GCV, and board the one remaining one before linking up with the Gorns and moving towards the final battle.
In this case, the question you are trying to ask is how much time was there between the warning and other actions. With the exception that there was a CAP out, the planetary defenses were pretty much at WS-0 when things started. Some people were absent from their posts (on leave, which is not a problem on a starship), some were asleep, some were on training exercises. But there was time for all of these personnel to arrive at their duty stations dressed and ready for action.
In turn, there was time for civilians to reach shelters, or to race to the bases.
Of course, the mysterious Klingon dagger team may be saying a few well placed sentences and telphone calls to stir things up a bit more. Even if the only thing they do is to increase panic a bit, that will be enough. It would only take one base to have some difficulty with crowds....
SPP,
OK. So the not-strictly-defined amount of time has passed necessary for all the characters to get wherever they might be going, which gives the crowds time to get where they might be going. I.e. the bases.
Got it.
But from here on out I prefer if we stuck generally to about 1 minute to a turn. No need to be exact but something close, please.
That is while we are playing actual battle turns.
Impulse #13:
Gunboats have arrived at 100 hexes range.
Banshee is still trying to duck and dodge its way back.
Ghost (both sections) are now 55 hexes from the planet, still heading in (all Ghosts are assumed moving speed 25 with mid-turn speed changes to conceal that one fighter has two pods).
Lt Trauger's GAS shuttles are in hexes (based on the center map, i.e., the hex that is 100 hexes from the gunboats at this time) 2214 (GAS#1), 2316 (GAS#2), and 2116 (GAS#3). They are currently co-located (in terms of being in the same hex, not directly next to each other) with the DefSats (DefSat #1 in 2214, DefSat #2 in 2316, and DefSat #3 in 2116). GAS shuttles are Speed Zero (i.e., maintaining station).
Shuttle #1 is at a fighter ground base and is loaded as a shatterpack.
Shuttle #2 is at the other fighter ground base and is loaded as a shatter pack.
Shuttle #3 is from the Ground Military Garrison and is judged to have been sent to a fighter Ground base and been prepared as a shatter pack.
Shuttles #4 and #5 from the Ground Warning Stations I am unsure of per previous discussion.
All Ground Bases are manned and ready with all personnel.
Two boarding parties from the Maneuver Company have been deployed to each of the two defense stations that have no bases.
All Ground Bases are currently under siege by small bodies of civilians trying to gain access. No base is besieged by more than ten crew units of effective civilian numbers (includes children), some are only being pressed by two crew units. Most are unarmed, but there ARE a few weapons present in the mix.
One Heavy Weapons Squad, that belonging to the General Defense Company, has been sent to see to the Governor.
There are reports of looting in the capital (small as it is).
SPP:
Col. Knight asked if the original alert message got sent to star fleet command at the begining of the this event.
I have prepared a update contact report (and requested Col Knight to review/approve it) for transmission to SFC.
What is the status? I know you asked a question way back when impling that we had no reason to contact SFC, but now, Col Kniught has repeated his request.
did the message go out?
will the follow up message go out at turn #1 impulse 25?
Thank you.
Jeff Wile:
I thought the fact that I was ignoring it was sufficient to say that it had gone out. Had it not, I would have said something. Were you being jammed, or had the signalmen simply failed to do it.
SVC will tell you one of the first rules of combat I passed on to him as an officer was "Tell Higher". My Line Platoon ran into something, and even as I issued orders to my squad leaders, I also ordered the RTO to call in the contact report, and updated that report with what I was doing and what I thought I was tangling with.
SPP:
Sorry, I didnt realise that was a "rule"... I was concerned that Col Knight had ordered the report... and named me specifically as responsible for its execution... Confirmation that it had gone out, is welcome news.
(too bad there are no Federation forces close enough to respond in time...)
SPP:
Clarification please.
What is Federation policy on looters?
is it up to each planet/planetary government?
or are looters shot out of hand?
I'm not sure that I have ever seen such a point arise in SFB before...
SPP wrote "Two boarding parties from the Maneuver Company have been deployed to each of the two defense stations that have no bases."
Are these in ADDITION to the 2 each NG Bps I sent to B and F?
You say "Defense" Stations, I say "Control" Stations... We have GCLs, 1 per hexside, 3 CS per GCL and ??? GDS per CS?
AFAIK, there has been NO orders given on the deployment of the Maneuver Company of the regulars, nor any of the NG units (except for the leg coy I have been deploying).
Captain Grafton continued to type rapidly into his PAD.
To: J-3
CC: Maneuver-6 (Chabot), NG-6 (Ford), Command (Loren)
From: GMG-6
1) Please advise status of other ground units.
2) General Defense Coy is currently spread out occupying various Control Stations.
3) Do other ground units plan to deploy defensively at local CS, search/ shelter in remote areas or shelter in bases during the expected TOT of the bombardment?
4) On which hexside are the other ground units?
Grafton, commanding
Mike hit send and then began a methodical sweep the passes through which any attack on the GMG/Fighter Base/GWS/ P4 Battery would have to pass with his advanced binocs. "Are the comms penetrated? Why don't the other units deploy and coordinate? Where are they anyway?"
The comm specialist looked up from rechecking the display coming from his bulky CompComm unit. "Sir, everything checks out OK on my links. Of course, since we are deployed in the Control Stations, all our comms are fiberoptically carried. Hard to jam or intercept. No response from the maneuver company or the National Guard net though. The NG Leg squads linked into our company net respond to our pings and test questions OK..."
Mike took a small sip of water and remembered two old Klingon sayings "Communications, movement and fire coordination are the foundations of victoy." And "Never depend on surprise, as it happens only in the minds of the unready, it cannot be planned."
Major Wile asked "Federation policy on looters?..."
Jeff
1) A phaser set on stun is truely a "shoot 'em all and let the courts sort 'em out later kind of weapon."
2) Why do we (the Marines) care right now? Lets settle the issue we are here to solve FIRST and then figure out what to do in "Rodney King_Ville."
3) The planet has a Govenor with a HUGE security detail, looter suppression would be a perfect job for them ("...list of individuals logged into the governors mansion... yes, capacity 150 (including security detachment of 50)") His security detachment is 10 BPs strong!
3) So far, I have not recieved any direct comm traffic from my detachments saying people are trying to rush the bases through the Control Stations my troops hold. Unless Otherwise Directed (UNORDIR), I will have my troops stun ANYONE that tries to rush/enter my perimeters unauthorized. Sorry, but this is the perfect way to get a dagger team inside a base and past the defensive positions we have established.
4) SPP, could you please backchannel me as to the reports my detachments are sending to me? mcgrafto@edisto.cofc.edu
Michael C. Grafton:
A thing never resolved in Star Trek, but a real problem today.
There are many people pushing the idea of non-violent weapons for such things as crowd control. The problem is that weapons adopted for just that purpose are then condemned when they actually do kill people.
There is, currently, no such thing as a completely non-lethal weapon.
If you fire stun gun (available to police forces today), and it induces the object of the attack to have a heart attack and die (which has happened), was the gun truly non-lethal?
If you stun a looter, and as a result of his convulsions or the fall from being stunned, he cracks his skull or lands in such manner as to break his own neck (again, incidents have happened, essentially the stunned individual lands with his neck hitting an "edge" . . . like the corner of a sidewalk before it drops down to the gutter), he is just as dead as if the police had shot him with a pistol. The results of these events has been a continuing drumbeat of condemnation of police for using a weapon that is clearly not safe. And yet more people are stopped by stun guns safely than are killed.
So if one of your lads "stuns" someone, and he dies as a result of falling, perhaps in front of a vehicle . . .
It is, in fact, not simply a case of "shoot em all and let the courts sort 'em out later." You still have to positively identify the target (shooting a local cop that was trying to stop the looting also could have bad reprecussions, if he happened to be an elderly survivor of the resistance who became a cop after the Federation returned, only to be killed by a gun happy Federation Marine . . .).
There is also the minor point, and I DID warn you guys, that if you start firing phaser rifles at the civilians (even if on stun), some of the armed ones are likely to shoot back . . . of course, if you do NOT deal with the situation and continue to refuse them ingress to safety, some of them might start shooting anyway (after all, they have to save their families . . . if not themselves).
The "security detachment" was probably drawn from a mix of personnel, some from the Federation Marines now on planet, some from the local defense forces, and some from the local consabulary.
Looters are not the concern of the military for the next ten minutes. Stay focused on saving the planet. If we do not then looters won't be much of a problem as they will be vaporized along with most everyone else. In about ten minutes we can look at the situation again.
Personel outside the bases will be moved by transporter or truck. Those remaining may be allowed inside once it is sure that drones will be hitting the surface. Possitively no non-official personel will be allowed in any of the phaser batteries, ever!
Major Wile, go ahead an get someone at each base to keep the people informed. Inform them no one is allowed in until bombardment in iminant but that those who go to the shelters via truck and transporter have the best chance of survival. Anyone who uses a weapon will be imediatly fired upon (use maximum stun though).
IF people are to be moved into the bases they will be moved to the shuttle bays (NOT FIGHTER BAYS!). Have someone begin preparing a partition between the fighter areas and the shuttle areas with what ever works (tractors, pallets what have you).
Come on everyone, lets just get through the next ten minutes.
Awaiting R45 report from Ghost A/B.
SPP: Can you give me more info on the G1's. Speed, heading, what hex?
Loren Knight:
Hunh? You have all that data.
There is one gunboat 100 hexes away in each of the six hexside facing of the planet except where Banshee went. The Gunboats are moving speed 31 (Warp 3.14). They are heading directly towards the planet down the column of hexes in a straight line.