Archive through July 18, 2005
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
New Rules:
(J) Shuttles and Fighters:
Casual fighters in freighter skids:
Archive through July 18, 2005
Richard:
I think if you will go back over the archives of this thread... that you will discover that the intent did anticipate making this into a fiction thing for possible a future Captains Log. (IMO the names would need to be changed as some might be offended by Captain Krunch and other incendiary characters....but that is up to the editor to decide!)
Since ADB now has a standard that requires that the results of the fiction could be recreated in game terms, not all of the posts above qualify as "rubbish".
Reality is, I cannot run this duel for you guys. And I cannot satisfy Richard Sherman (no fault on his part) of the game background for piracy. That is, of course, a common failing among Orion Pirates in Starfleet Battles. They have the right to double their engines and do it willy nilly rather than seeing that the circumstances under which they are supposed to do so are the extremes, i.e., where the benefit is worth the cost. For example, avoiding destruction by that larger ship, protecting the fixed site until it can be evacuated, hitting the high value target that will pay for the costs of doubling the engines, etc.
The typical freighter being hit is just running general cargoes. The typical Orion has no idea what the typical freighter he is jumping today is carrying. So when he pulls over a freighter, he wants to minimize his expenses to make a profit. Doubling the engines is an expense. It is an expense on a lot of levels.
Richard Sherman:
Doubling the engines results in internal damage, this damage is in addition to combat damage (G15.211). Crew casualties result from internals (G9.21) which engine doubling damage counts as (S2.22).
You double your engines, you take a crew casualty (admittedly only 1/10th of a crew unit). Note that the individual may only be "wounded" and recover (G9.231) since he is only one man and you round the fractions up, but if you double the engines twice (on a Light Raider), you have in essence one man dead and one man wounded. (Double all the engines on a CR one time and you have three casualties. Do it again and you have six. A third time and you have nine. Double any engine again, and you have a crew unit of casualties even if you did not otherwise take any damage, and even if you repaired some of the existing engine damage.
Used to be a local joke that the way the Orions doubled their engines was by opening a hatch and throwing in the most junior crewman. Of course when the "wounded" rule showed up, we just assumed that engine doubling created some "radiation" problems, and that the casualty was a result of that.
But you Do take that casualty. You might not care, being safe on the bridge. But that casualty is probably having some negative impact on recruiting engineers, and doubtless people want to cycle through their stints in Orion Engineering just as quickly as they can.
So, like it or not, Light Raiders are designed to take down standard small freighters with a minimum of fuss (including not doubling the engines). They can generally deal with a large freighter fairly easily. Can probably afford to tangle with a small convoy provided it does not have an escort (two small and one large freighter, or three or four small freighters, or two large freighters). But again skids and ducktails make that equation a bit harder to resolve.
Now, MISSION matters. Basic piracy means taking one freighter and grabbing the best of its cargo (at least as much of it as you can carry), but sometimes you are on a mercenary mission and destroying the freighter (preferably after getting a little loot as a bonus on your paycheck) will be the goal.
But, typically, you just want to waylay the freighter and grab what you can carry and leave.
And, no, you do NOT want to double the engines while engaged in basic piracy unless you have information that something is being carried that is worth the expense.
We are making this too complicated. This is an SFB scenario meant to test whether an LR can steal cargo from an F-L with 4 fighters before unknown reinforcements show up at an unknown (at least to the LR) time. Questions:
1. Can the LR double it's engines or not?
2. If the answer to #1 is yes, is there some special additional penalty within this scenario for doing so? Is it limited on the number of times it can do so?
If the answer to #2 is no, other than the standard penalties for internal damage, then if I am the LR, expect me to hype the engines when I need to do so (but I will not do so "willy nilly;" that's not my style), and when it will not cost me the game, BASED ON THE ESTABLISHED VICTORY CONDITIONS (emphasis, not yelling...I don't know how to use those codes to bold or change stuff...sorry).
Jeff:
My bad. I just jumped in here because I thought it was interesting. I did not read most of the earlier thread. That is my fault, and I apologize. If this is for fiction, then everything you, Doug, and SPP posted about costs is relevant. Again, my apologies.
I am still interested mainly in "trying to win" this as an SFB game. My fiction skills...ahem...leave something to be desired at this point, I'm afraid.
Richard: No problem, I thought you might not have read the archives...some of the points you have raised have been discussed before...so this is atleast the 2nd (possibly third time) SPP has had to address the subjects.
(possibly more, I didn't go back to count the number of times the various pirate background questions have been addressed.)
It should also be pointed out that the cargo that you are risking your (fictional persona) LR to capture or loot is fruit cake.
It'll take a lot of dried fruit rum and sugar to pay for the self inflicted engine damage that you will incur when hyping your engines... not to mention the death bonus's due to the family and NOK (next of Kin) of your dead crew.
Besides, why do you want to attack ole' Captain Krunch? he's a heck of a nice guy (for a Klingon) and wouldnt hurt a fly unless it annoyed him in some way...
Jeff:
Fruit cake? Really? You've got to be kidding? We're not seriously considering developing a bona-fide "group story" where the booty is actually going to be fruit cake?
Sigh.
My LR+ disengages in disgust. I hate fruit cake.
Some comments.
While Michael C. Grafton cooked up the "fruitcake" angle, it would doubtless have to be changed to something else if this was actually incorporated into the Starfleet Fictional Universe per se. So Richard Sherman should not back off just because Michael C. Grafton chose fruitcake as the cargo (albeit, a mysterious fruitcake much sought after by Orions for some reason that Michael C. Grafton expounded on, but that I have since forgotten as irrelevant to the larger question).
Second, from the Orion Pirate's point of view this is just another freighter (so far). He knows it is a Large Freighter, but technically that is all he knows. To be truthful, from a fiction standpoint, when this thing kicks out fighters there are going to be several questions the Orion would ask himself. Such as
"Captain, the freighter is launching shuttles . . . but the shuttles are jamming our sensors . . .
"Fighters? This is Klingon space . . . what is a Kzinti or Hydran Q-ship doing this deep in Klingon space? Maybe it is an auxiliary carrier."
"Tactical, verify the mass of that ship."
Having never encountered a standard freighter with fighters before (he knows they are fighters at range 40 normally, but will have to get through two shifts of ECM due to small target modifiers, so he will not know they are fighters until he hits range 20 or applies ECCM), the first assumption would be on checking his data base that it is a Q-ship, because that would match the data base (Kzinti and Hydran Large Q-Ships have four fighters). He will KNOW that it is not a CVA (Large Freighter with Fighters?) because the CVA's movement cost is 0.67, not 0.50 (although he might order his tactical officer to verify the ship's mass). From a role playing and fiction writing standpoint if you are working with an Orion that is not aware of these skids (which are one-use in the development of this fiction story), the appearance of fighters is going to cause some confusion and perhaps some delay. The Pirate would need to think about this. Is it a Kzinti or Hydran Q-ship?
At that juncture, fictionwise, you could go several directions. The Orion ship might get close enough to verify (see) the skids, and know that it is not a Q-ship, or maybe the Tactical officer will reference a file and determine that a report has come through Cartel Channels about a freighter called the "Weary Donkey" that has fighters in two skids, but that is otherwise a normal freighter with two skids. Maybe that report includes mention of the freighter's cargo.
At that point, you could define that capturing a portion of this freighter's cargo is worth doubling the engines, and the report and the location (deep in Imperial Space) pretty much rules out the Q-ship angle (Imperial Q-ships do not have fighters). At which juncture you are into one of those areas where doubling the engines is considered worthwhile because the cargo is that valuable (or something in the cargo is), or the fighters would not have been there to start with.
Rum? In an SFU fruitcake???
Romulan Ale, more like...
No, no, no, no!!!!
You use the Romulan Ale for the incendiary fruit cake door stop!
the Regular fruit cake is quite adequate for stopping doors... the Romulan Ale fruit cake is intended for blowing the door off its hinges!!!
Boy! I'm glad we settled that!!!!
Uh, then what was that I just ate? Should I NOT burp?
Quote:As to my definition of the mission; I would argue the goal is profit. The means to that end is theft.
Be aware that another power may have a bounty on "enemey shipping" and so destroying the freighter is a legitimate way of "bagging" some "dosh".
Quote:You double your engines, you take a crew casualty (admittedly only 1/10th of a crew unit). Note that the individual may only be "wounded" and recover (G9.231) since he is only one man and you round the fractions up, but if you double the engines twice (on a Light Raider), you have in essence one man dead and one man wounded. (Double all the engines on a CR one time and you have three casualties. Do it again and you have six. A third time and you have nine. Double any engine again, and you have a crew unit of casualties even if you did not otherwise take any damage, and even if you repaired some of the existing engine damage...
...But you Do take that casualty. You might not care, being safe on the bridge. But that casualty is probably having some negative impact on recruiting engineers, and doubtless people want to cycle through their stints in Orion Engineering just as quickly as they can.
Surely so long as the ship takes not actual internal damage, one can double the warp engines 9 times before taking a crew unit as casualties.
That is an Orion can take 9 damage before taking a crew unit loss. Furthermore if one doubles the warp Engines creating that tenth point of damage; the combination of the doubled warp engines and the effects of damage cause the casualty that does occour on the tenth point.
Therefore it is relatively safe to be on the LR and double the warp engines.
Just don't double the warp engines when the ship is a mess or you'll kill a few crew and don't bite off more than you can chew or you'll kill a few crew but otherwise it's fairly safe to double the warp engine.
Also note that G9.16 probably applies as well to Orions as to regular fleets, so lossing men probaly isn't going to make a big problem from the point of veiw of profiting from piracy.
On doubling. Although reading what SPP has written further it's another mute point.
Remember that in order to disengage the Orion LR needs 50% of warp power still availible for speed, so an Orion that doubles too much during a battle against a freighter that is soon to be rescued, will infact be destroyed.
I can see a special scenario rules ( or maybe a general rule for "unescorted" freighters being attacked by Orions; that the number of warp engine boxes availible must be 80% (rounded up) or 24 warp engine boxes, whichever is lower.
I think there should be no problem with a warp engine box being destroyed due to doubling if CDR repairs the done during the scenario.
The pirates would like to not spend any money on spare parts to maximise their profits, but the Orions cartels would calculate the profitibility of each franchise (with respect to the cartel's cut) based on the assumption to that some spare parts would be consumed during an encounter.
Also note that the the fact that this particularly LR is being "escorted" by fighters ( or atleast that is what the LR captain will say to cartel bosses when it comes time to determine the cartel cut and thus the reason why the spare parts were used ) put the idea into the mind of the Pirate that 1) this is a partiularly precious cargo and 2) that destroying this particular freighter will be granted extra money in the bounty because the enemy race won't have to send their own FF or DD to hunt it down as part of their "war on trade" and thus risk the lives of their own men cracking a farily tough nut (that might be being escorted by a POL-CV by the time their vessel finds it, due to the fact that decreasing numbers of freighters will increase the percentage of escorted freighters).
Quote:(emphasis, not yelling...I don't know how to use those codes to bold or change stuff...sorry).
Can you follow a link and read the text?
Be careful to read the trouble shooting section at the end.
Quote:It should also be pointed out that the cargo that you are risking your (fictional persona) LR to capture or loot is fruit cake.
And that fruit cake is a vital component in the manufacture of ther stealth coating of Orion hulls.
Thus the cargo is worth the espence of the skids and the fighters for the shipping line but veiwed as nearly worless by the fleets that would otherwise provide an escort.
It seems to me that by the time the pirate needs to double engines (ie, not on initial approach, but after fighters are spotted), he'll have a justification.
From a story/non-SFB perspective, a regular freighter couldn't afford to run fighters - therfore this must be something special. If it's special, it's worth a few engine repairs or crew members...
Sigh.
Part of the problem is that the discussion has ranged over "Usual Orion Operations" and "Unusual Orion Operations".
I have never at any point said that the Light Raider could not double its engines in an engagement with the fictional "Weary Donkey" as presented in this topic. I have said that NORMAL OPERATIONS VERSUS FREIGHTERS WOULD HAVE THE ORIONS OPERATING AT A LOSS IF THEY DOUBLED THEIR ENGINES. I have said this repeatedly and in endless variation.
Once the "Weary Donkey" launches fighters, the Light Raider is operating under "unusual conditions" as freighters do not normally launch fighters.
It is a fact, it stands. Any Orion Light Raider Captain that is doubling his engines to knock over your standard Small Freighter is losing money. Doubling the engines when you are knocking over a standard Large Freighter is also losing money. Neither of these ships by themselves poses any threat to a Light Raider. Even at range zero a phaser-3 would take four or more turns to down any shield on a Light Raider, and a phaser-2 and phaser-3 combination would take at least two turns (three turns if it was a Light Raider+), and that if the Light Raider is not using battery reinforcement and assuming basically that the freighters are rolling straight ones and twos (and in the case of the Large Freighter that the Light Raider is sitting in its RA arc and letting it fire its phaser-3).
Worst case scenario the Light Raider's three phaser-1s at range zero are downing the Small Freighter's shield in one turn and scoring six internals (assumes the battery is used to reinforce the shield, and that the Light Raider rolled straight sixes on its phasers) and two internals on a Large Freighter. This is not including what is in its option mounts (which makes phaser-1s an attractive buy for piracy since they are cheap to arm and do not need an outside source for resupply like drone racks . . . but see previous commentary on the three plasma-F torpedo option). Note that these were worst case for the Light Raider and Best case for the freighter.
But please note that I do not advocate going to such close ranges to freighters until you have determined their ability to harm you, and there is no reason to run the risk of a suicide shuttle.
A Light Raider simply does not need to double its engines to attack a Standard Freighter whether Large or Small. It is quite capable of disabling such freighters quickly.
Now, obviously the Light Raider has to evaluate its target, and obviously needs to carefully consider his approach vectors, and an experienced Light Raider captain is going to assume that any freighter he is approaching is a Q-ship until he knows better.
What does all that mean?
It means that he NEVER approaches a freighter dead-on (since most Q-ships have LS and RS weapons, as do armed freighters, and you do not want to be in a position where all of them can be brought to bear on the same impulse against the same shield). It means that (with the introduction of skids further complicating the matter) he wants a good count of the weapons on the freighter (this will not help you spot a Q-ship, but you also do not want to be sucked in close to a Large Armed-Freighter pretending to be only a simple Large Freighter by having his warp engines operating at half power). Even worse, you do not want to tangle at close range with a Large Armed Freighter with Skids and a ducktail. It means generally you want to conduct your business from four or five hexes range until your boarding parties have secured the target ship. (Phaser-3s and Phaser-2s are pretty pathetic at range four or more and if that is all they might have you can dance at range four, but if you suspect a Q-ship from a phaser-1 and photon, or a disruptor race, go no closer than range five until the boarding parties secure the ship.) Never let your speed fall to less than speed 16 until the freighter is secured. (You want to be able to disengage immediately if you have too, and that includes leaving your boarding parties behind, if this proves to be a trap of some kind . . . Paranoia is a good thing if there are people out to get you, and if you are an Orion there are people out to get you.) Having your speed up also lets you quickly out run any plasma torpedoes the ship may launch (Q-ships and Armed Freighters only have the short ranged plasma-Fs), and remember that Plasma Large Q-ships have rear launching plasma-Fs, while most Plasma Small Q-ships and all Plasma-F-Armed Freighters have forward launching plasma-Fs. And, yes, there are other tactical considerations depending on the race that owns the freighter (and what their Q-ship might be), but I am not going into all of them (this is already longer and wordier than I intended). I learned my Orion Tactics a long time ago against the various then existing units. While I am out of date in terms of knowledge for dealing directly with Skids and/or Ducktails (they appeared long after I stopped operating Orions . . . sorry), and have not faced off against Q-ships operated by the Vudar (and so have not developed my tactical set for doing so).
I'll 2x check the SSD when I get home, but I thought the LR only had 2 P1.
If it does have 3, this just got a little easier.
Richard Sherman:
Light Raider has three phaser-1-360.
While my "retirement ship" is a Medium Raider (if I was an Orion Pirate that would be my ship of choice, I do not like Battle Raiders or Double Raiders, and have no desire to play the political games needed within a Cartel to get become an Enforcer or otherwise get any of the "big" ships), I have spent my time in the Light Raider and have it virtually memorized.
I can come up with multiple scenarios for how a freighter is launching fighters, and with multiple possible Orion situations. Each combination generates a slightly different outcome. Most aren't that interesting.
1) The "freighter" could be some new sort of Q-ship (or even a standard Kzinti or Hydran Q-ship) whose commander is an utter moron and launched early.
2) The "freighter" could be a new naval auxilary carrier design.
3) The freighter could be carrying some sort of half assed casual fighters for some unknown reason, probably as part of transporting replacement fighters to someone.
4) The freighter has a cargo so valuable that a custom modified ducktail is worth building and fighters can be placed on board, but so worthless that they can't get an armed frieghter, FedEx, APT, or anything else of the sort to carry it and also can't get a police escort or real warship. Right.
OTOH consider the Orion LR captain.
A) The Orion can be a fairly successful and prosperous independent LR captain. In that case I don't care why this freighter is launching fighters, it's wierd which means it's dangerous and no one is paying me to actually fight people who fight back. I make one range 9+ firing pass with energy in ECCM and try to kill a fighter, the goal is to gather tac-intel/scientific information I can sell to the local cartel lord about a possible new OpForce unit. Being a spiteful SOB I also send out a subspace call giving the time and date of the encounter and prior course of the frieghter and urging anyone who wants to to come take a crack at this oddity.
This does not generate an interesting scenario and is probably the most likely outcome.
B) The Orion can be a desparate losser independent or serious optimist. In that case he can bet the farm on this being worthwhile, which means that he assumes the target has something of overwhelming value on board. If that is my situation I am willing to take massive internals if I need to to capture the target in the hope that it will pay off.
This is the one that makes for an interesting scenario. But it is extremely unlikely, it requires a desparite or stupid Orion betting the farm that the least likely scenario (4) is actually the truth. This works best IMAO if the Orion in question has some intelligence on the "Weary Donkey" and thus a reason to bet on (4).
C) The Orion works directly for the local cartel. Those suckers are fighting back. We must make an example of them to show that this is a bad idea. Since I am not sure what I am up against and have only a rather fragile LR I have just switched to commerce raider mode and will go for the safe kill rather than trying to take significant cargo. I will make an effort to get a boarding party on the remains of the hulk's bridge prior to finishing it off so I can take at least two prisoners and suck its computers dry. Later I can figure out later what was happening.
Basically this is a destroy the frieghter mission with the additional objective of getting control of the freighter bridge for at least ___ impulses. Obviously if I can steal some cargo also that's gravy. It could make an interesting scenario.
D) I am on a contract commerce raid mission. I blow that sucker up and report suprising and destroying some sort of auxilary carrier in battle with appropriate demands for bonus payments.
DougL
Douglas E. Lampert: 1) The "freighter" could be some new sort of Q-ship (or even a standard Kzinti or Hydran Q-ship) whose commander is an utter moron and launched early.
REPLY: This has already been covered as a possibility, and your estimate of the intelligence of the captain of such a ship is erroneous. He might be launching the fighters early simply because he is hoping that you will realize he is a Q-ship, and leave him alone as something in his 1,000 spaces of cargo is vital somewhere, which is why he is transporting it.
Douglas E. Lampert: 2) The "freighter" could be a new naval auxilary carrier design.
REPLY: Unlikely.
Douglas E. Lampert: 3) The freighter could be carrying some sort of half-assed casual fighters for some unknown reason, probably as part of transporting replacement fighters to someone.
REPLY: That is unlikely in the extreme. Fighters being transported on freighters are shipped as cargo, not as ready to fly in the freighter's shuttle bays. This would be so even if they were "replacement fighters" being moved somewhere.
Douglas E. Lampert: 4) The freighter has a cargo so valuable that a custom modified ducktail is worth building and fighters can be placed on board, but so worthless that they can't get an armed frieghter, FedEx, APT, or anything else of the sort to carry it and also can't get a police escort or real warship. Right.
REPLY: This is the basis for the story idea, and might be acceptable for a one-off story, but the idea is not going to be accepted into the general game universe because all of the assumptions needed to make it work are falacious.
Douglas E. Lampert: A) The Orion can be a fairly successful and prosperous independent LR captain. In that case I don't care why this freighter is launching fighters, it's wierd which means it's dangerous and no one is paying me to actually fight people who fight back. I make one range 9+ firing pass with energy in ECCM and try to kill a fighter, the goal is to gather tac-intel/scientific information I can sell to the local cartel lord about a possible new OpForce unit. Being a spiteful SOB I also send out a subspace call giving the time and date of the encounter and prior course of the frieghter and urging anyone who wants to to come take a crack at this oddity.
REPLY: You have ONE (1) lab box, and that is one of your control stations acting as a lab. You are not going to acquire enough lab data in one range nine or greater firing pass to learn anything. The possibility of people fighting back is one of the reasons you have engine doubling. It can be assumed that something that is better protected is even more worth stealing, and having the ability to double your engines allows you to "change the rules of the game" in mid-game as it were. You can anticipate that the launched fighters will have at least six ECM. [Two built-in plus four for erratic maneuvers . . . at least I would launch them under erratic maneuvers until two things occurred; first their seeking weapons (if armed with seeking weapons) come on line, and second I need them, i.e., the situation has reached a point where they can contribute effectively.] This tends to make them difficult targets unless the Light Raider doubles his engines to have enough ECCM to counter their ECM while moving quickly enough to evade drones, including from a potential scatterpack. Your "pay" to fight people who actually fight back is the reward of their cargo (if they are fighting that hard, it must be worth something), and convincing others that fighting is not a good idea. If you are actually a "spiteful SOB", you take the time to consider "sharing" the wealth, shadow the freighter from outside its sensor range, and invite a friend or two to join in.
Douglas E. Lampert: B) The Orion can be a desparate losser independent or serious optimist. In that case he can bet the farm on this being worthwhile, which means that he assumes the target has something of overwhelming value on board. If that is my situation I am willing to take massive internals if I need to to capture the target in the hope that it will pay off.
REPLY: No, no Orion is ever willing to take massive internals. If the wealth is too well guarded such that the attack may leave you at the mercy of reinforcements, you do not attack, unless you can do so with some chance of success (winning and escaping with the swag). See above about inviting a friend to join the attack.
Douglas E. Lampert: This is the one that makes for an interesting scenario. But it is extremely unlikely, it requires a desparite or stupid Orion betting the farm that the least likely scenario (4) is actually the truth. This works best IMAO if the Orion in question has some intelligence on the "Weary Donkey" and thus a reason to bet on (4).
REPLY: No one provides security for things that have little value. If there is this much security, the only possible reason for there not to be great value is that the freighter is returning from delivering the most valuable cargo. It has to "return" in Michael C. Grafton's scenario because the fighters have to be brought back to their original base.
Douglas E. Lampert: C) The Orion works directly for the local cartel. Those suckers are fighting back. We must make an example of them to show that this is a bad idea. Since I am not sure what I am up against and have only a rather fragile LR I have just switched to commerce raider mode and will go for the safe kill rather than trying to take significant cargo. I will make an effort to get a boarding party on the remains of the hulk's bridge prior to finishing it off so I can take at least two prisoners and suck its computers dry. Later I can figure out later what was happening.
REPLY: Any Orion wants to make sure the locals do not get the idea that resistance is not futile. If you actually did turn away from a freighter that just launched fighters and was not a Q-ship, you validate the effort to resist and can expect more resistance. Crush it now before the idea spreads. Destruction of freighters that resist is always a good thing. I have noted that before. I said that if a freighter does not stand and deliver under threat of your weapons, you have no choice but to carry out your threat and destroy the freighter in order to encourage others to not resist. (This generally means leaving some survivors to talk about it, you do not want word to circulate that you are a casual murderer, you want word to circulate that resisting you is a bad thing.)
Douglas E. Lampert: D) I am on a contract commerce raid mission. I blow that sucker up and report suprising and destroying some sort of auxilary carrier in battle with appropriate demands for bonus payments.
REPLY: This one I might have to concede, but I would note that if I was your "benefactor", I am going to want to see "prisoners" from this "auxiliary carrier", as well as your sensor data from the battle, to verify your claim. Do not provide both and, well it was just a freighter after all, right. Frankly, I would want proof of each freighter you claimed to kill, and that means your sensor data files from each engagement, and at least one prisoner from each destroyed ship, otherwise your claim will be denied.
If a large Klingon freighter launched four fighters, would a captured Kzinti Q-ship be a possibility? I'm thinking in the category of minimally refitted for Klingon service (almost at the level of pieces of tape with the Klingon equivalents on the controls, with, of course, a random cabin converted to a security station).
SPP,
Out of curiousity, why don't you like the BR over the MR? For only 5 BPV the BR gets a lot more systems. The only negatives to the BR are that it is not nimble, and has a higher power cost to operate a cloak. (OK, I am also assuming that the door label for the AUX bridge has had "Auxiliary" scratched out and replaced with "Main".)
Also, what did you put in your LR's option mounts? (I assume you didn't have a Ph-G, since this was "normal" operations.)
Jeff wrote "It'll take a lot of dried fruit rum and sugar to pay for the self inflicted engine damage that you will incur when hyping your engines" Yeah, this is special dense and sticky fruit cake that is the basis of the mysterious Orion Stealth Hull Coating. It's all part of my sick mind.
SPP wrote "Orion Pirate's point of view this is just another freighter " Umm no. MJC has some intel that this is a premium cargo. Also remember I am positing that these skids are NOT unique, not common, but they are in Sgt Jorsinis Tactical Database when identified...
I am very gratified that this thread has generated so much interest. Newcomers, please read the back story. Many of the comments are covered there at length. AND YES, MJC basically has to CAPTURE the freighter to win. Note if the rescue ship is not yet on the map, MJC can easily sublight evade a captured ship.
The freighter cargo is inportant to the companies and planets involved, but NOT the empire as a whole (not I chose luxury goods as my cargos) hence the need for the companies and planets to pony up resources to defend this cargo.
But please continue.
Capturing the Freighter isn't on my mind, the bounty for blowing that sucker up is.
In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny.
"Ain't I a stinker!?!"
Mike West:
There are several things I like about the Medium Raider.
I like the added stealth of being nimble. At more than 30 hexes range I have six ECM without spending any power, and can hit nine with three allocated points of jamming. A Battle Raider can only hit eight.
At 15-29 I still have two shifts (two built-in, two for nimble), can can still hit nine for three shifts if I dump five points of power into ECM. The Battle Raider cannot do better than two.
That ECM applies both coming AND GOING, i.e., it makes it easier for me to vanish into the background when I need to than a Battle Raider. Harder to track me. Means I can get in closer, and vanish faster. And when I am running, I like the fact that it costs me a lot less to do erratic maneuvers to throw off the enemy's aim, letting me squeeze a few more ergs of power out of the engines to run.
EDIT: Note, the use of erratic maneuvers is something that has to be understood. I would lose the benefit of the small target modifier if I used it, but it meant that I could use it while I was in close, and drop it as the range got longer. A Battle Raider has to spend more power for erratic maneuvers (not nimble), and never gains the benefit of small target modifier at any range (again, not nimble). I have seen damaged Battle Raiders that had lost their rear shield get hit with long range phaser fire and become unable to disengage. But when my MR hits range 30 I have six ECM at no cost, which means for a point of power I cut the chance of any given phaser-1 hitting me to 1/6th (assuming the pursuit has six ECCM up). A Battle Raider at that range has to dump five points of power to do the same thing (either four points for erratic maneuvers and a point for generated ECM, or five points of ECM). From range zero to range 29 I can have that seven points of ECM at a cost of five points of power (two for erratic maneuvers, the two points of built-in, and three points generated), the Battle Raider always has to spend seven points to the same, and as I noted I can drop the erratic maneuvers when I hit range 30. It just gives me more power to run. And I generally do want to run after I pull a crime. And for more fun, once I get beyong range 29, I can also cut my fire control, and one turn later I have eight points of ECM at no cost (passive fire control). Frankly, I have been known to cut my fire control sooner than that to save that point of power for running. When I am an Orion doing piracy, I have absolutely no interest in fighting (barring the Cartel Lord essentially ordering me too). END EDIT
In close,I usually have the advantage of seeing what my enemy is going to do first, even if he is a Battle Raider, for example, because I am nimble. Sure, some of those Police ships are a pain on this point (the Fed Pol for example), but usually I get to move after seeing what my opponent is going to do, which optimizes my HET opportunities if I need to use one (for example).
I love the extra four points of power over the Raider Cruiser, of course, and equal to the Battle Raider (although with 25% less reserve power than the Battle Raider).
The Firepower is adequate to take on and beat a large armed freighter pretty quickly (although obviously not as quickly as a Battle Raider), but I am more likely to catch the freighter up close at a low weapon status (of course, that was before Skids and Ducktails, which would obviously require some re-thinking on my part of my Orion Operations).
To me, Battle Raiders are clumsy and clunky. The Medium Raider is an elegant tool.
Ultimately, the fact that I am literally harder to find than the a Battle Raider means I will be around longer to enjoy my spoils, even if the Battle Raider can takeoff 20% more than I can in any given "mugging".
To me, the Medium Raider is the ultimate expression of the true Pirate Cruiser (as opposed to smaller raiders). I literally do not like or desire to serve on any of the other larger boats, not even as the Cartel Enforcer. I will stick with my Medium Raider (Option Mounts varied depending on Cartel, of course).
As to the second question, the options on Light Raiders, I tended to go with plasma-Fs or phaser-1s. I avoided drones because . . . well the racks tended to be empty at inconvenient times, and the Ammo Bins tended to not hold enough to patrol for long periods making resupply a more frequent option. Disruptors, Photons, Hellbores took too much power over too much time. Phaser-Gs were nice . . . if you were willing to get close . . . but I tended not to like getting that close and Phaser-Gs were pretty rare in any case. (Part of the problem is that I was "The Other Side" a bit too often, and actually DID one time lure a Light Raider in by taking his weapons fire on my "freighter shields" with subsequent internal damage, before turning at range one to hit him with two overloaded Photon Torpedoes and two phaser-1s . . . fun things happen when you are playing a campaign and the Orion has decided to ignore the chance that a random card draw could turn up a Q-ship.) There is also the problem of having the power for ECCM when the enemy goes turtle.
Fusion beams can be nice if you are willing to go in that close (but if you are, why not take phaser-Gs that require less power?), but I just was not.
And of course all of this was driven by the fact that I had not yet founded the "Petrick Merchant Consortium" and developed my freighter security doctrine of placing security teams on my freighters. I did not run into that problem although if I had, I would have destroyed a couple of such freighters outright (allowing the crew to survive as much as possible) to make the point that resisting me was a "bad thing (tm)".
Let the crew survive? According to some novels I have read, it only takes ONE person to deliver a message!
While Plasma Fs are nice, I know a few pirate player that point out that a Disrupter reloads fast and takes down a shield with no collateral damage to the cargo (loot). They also liked Plasma Ds for the same reason, but your points hold true about power and ammo bins (respectively). Please be sure that the ‘Petrick Merchant Consortium’ is reminded that the pirate will respond in kind to commander’s option BPs in due time.
I have to say, the MR is my favorite pirate ship as well. Arrr Arrr Arrr! The cloak always makes the job of a clumsy pirate disapearing easier. But come on, lets be REAL pirates!
Yeah, that's were the trouble with the design of fighters opperated from skids mounted on freighters comes into.
The Fighters are in a difficult position, like the 77 Turks on the Gallipoly pinincula the day some 5000 ANZACs and a further 2000 British soldiers invaded. They all bar one died that day...but they caused the invasions to fail.
With say 2 G-racks and her 3Ph-1s and her 2 tractors the LR can basically fight; the drones of a Z-1 (WWs would help the LR too) on one turn and then the Z-1 itself on the next. Making a long battle of 8 turns before the LR can focus on the frieghter.
If the freighter goes slowly then it gets harder for the LR because the fighters may be able to rearm (and repair) fast enough to keep the LR at bay ad-nosium...but it gets easier for the LR if the freighter goes slowly because the Photon becomes easier to arm.
So when an LR tries to prosecute this kind of a battle the fighters will take loses, particularly if the WS rules restrict the number that can be ready for launch, and those lost fighters will be lost, rather easily. That is because there are less than 8, there can be no EWF to protect the fighters and the frieghter can not loan EW to the fighters and indeed the freighter can only accept the control of 3 seeking weapons leaving the home squadron in a very weak position, if the LR does choose to really press home the encounter.
In conclusion the LR is more likely to blow the freighter to "smitherines" for having the audacity to try to defend itself with fighters than to actually capture it and thus get a bounty from the cartel or enemy empire for the destruction of a freighter that was being a bad influence on other freighters.
The Disruptor is accurate and great at R1 (10 points of damage ) but it has the drawback of, you need the power on the turn you use it and the LR had neither the excess power (10 warp engine boxes for MC0.333) nor the BTTYs ( three of them ) to support such action against a ship that doesn't slow doesn for you.