I apologize for repeating but I think its important. (XFD7.11) prohibits using X drones in a scatter pack by anyone but an X ship. To avoid confusion there should be some note of this in the final rule.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 08:38 pm: Edit

(XD5.0) X-Drones

Is your Seeking Weapon Control number (ie 1x Sensor rating, double Sensor rating) is there an increase with the XP-refit?

If I Remember Correctly, all X-ships have double seeking control.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Scottt - Seeking control question is covered in (XR2.34).

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 08:37 am: Edit

IIRC Lyrans & Hydrans ( having just thumbed through the SSD book ) don't have 12 seeking weapon control channels ( just 6 which is double what they used to have ).


See XF3.2 in Module X1 for details.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:47 pm: Edit

SVC: Something that may have been over looked regarding XAPR. Federation ship have AWR on their X-ships so do Federation XP refits give you 2 XAWR for one APR?

Suggestions:

Perhaps you must first convert to XAPR then pay an additional upgrade to get XAWR?

OR

For ships without AWR already you can get the two for one XAPR or you can, as part of the XP refit, refit all APR to AWR (not two for one), but you must first buy at least one XP photon refit to qualify for an APR to AWR refit (one point each?).

Ships with AWR already (by design or from a previous refit) convert straight to XAWR (i.e. two for one).

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:52 pm: Edit

I also have to say this is really a great alternative to the ship modification rules. Players can now mod their ships in all sorts of fun ways and it won't get out of hand like the previous modification rules did.

With the XP refit I can see little need for the system to endure ever having ship mod rules again.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:57 pm: Edit

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Quote:

XR7.3) X-MEGAFIGHTERS: It proved impossible to create X-Megafighters despite billions of credits in engineering experiments.

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By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Tos: That's Hydrans and they are the exception. Alway were.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 12:34 am: Edit

I'm cool with a Hydran exception, but the XP rule should note the exception.

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 06:00 am: Edit

---

Quote:

SVC: Something that may have been over looked regarding XAPR. Federation ship have AWR on their X-ships so do Federation XP refits give you 2 XAWR for one APR?

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By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 08:27 am: Edit

XPR produce warp power; There is no XAPR vs XAWR. I already asked the question about upgrading APR vs upgrading AWR, and SVC responded that they would cost the same to upgrade; it wasn't an oversight.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 10:38 am: Edit

Well, I checked my SSD's and only Feds had AWR. The rest had APR. They are labled differently so I figured they were different. Up until now it didn't matter.

But now we will have ships with and without AWR getting the XP upgrade... I think. It will be of more value to ships that never got the AWR refit. Player might also forgo previous refits to gain a couple points and get AWR anyway from the XP refit.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 11:13 am: Edit

Refits are required five years after their start date per (S8.132). Alas, I don't know the date the Feds started their AWR refit.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Loren,

If you re-check, you will also find that Tholian photon torpedo-equipped ships have AWR.

(That only applies to Tholians that use APR at all, of course. The Tholian DD has warp and impulse engines but no aux reactors at all. Consequently, the DDP and DPX don't have AWR because the DD and DDX don't have APR. But Tholian C-type hulls have APR and therefore the CAP and CPX have AWR while the CCX has APR.)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Silly me! Thanks Alan because that actually supports my claim that there's a difference involved. Minor, I know, but if all APR on X-ships generate warp energy then why lable them different on various ships?

I'm not sure there are ships in the XP era not already converted to AWR that also carry photons. I suppose it should be checked first because if there isn't then the point is moot.

But if there are photon equipped ships without AWR that are XP compatable then it needs to be handled. MUST a Battle Pod have the AWR refit by Y182?

To get XPs XAWR do you need to convert from AWR or can you convert directly from APR? It's a big difference for photon ships.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Perhaps a simply solution is to require that to qualify for an XP refit the ship MUST have already purchased all available refits prior to the XP calculation/modifications.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Guys, I'm leaving it, so drop it. It's just too complicated to write rules that say that if you had APR you can have XAPR or pay extra for XWPR or if you had WPR you can have XWPR or get XPR for a discount. Since it's non-mobile warp power, there is no benefit, since those who had APRs didn't have any need for non-mobile warp power anyway.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Well yeah, they do...
Antimatter bombs and SS require warp power as oppossed to others and so by upgrading your APRs to AWRs you potentially raise the max speed of your vessel in combat.

I'm not saying that those two reasons are enough to make varrious fleets fund upgrading APRs to AWRs but they are legitmate reasons even if only of minor value.


I'm not trying to reignite the debate just shinning light on the "no reason" arguement.

By Steve Cain (Stevecain) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 03:04 am: Edit

Why not just say that XPR is X-AWR and that no one made X-APR because 1. AWR is more flexible, 2. AWR concepts were required to get the larger bang out of a smaller reactor. Solves the whole pricing fit and gives XP/X-ships the flex of AWR for the probe bomb & SS. Sure, it probably means raising the cost one more point; but who gives a care... this is x-tech.ing ships.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 10:58 am: Edit

Just make sure it is covered, is there a damage priority rule which effects the X-Batteries and XPR, like we have with weapons? ("Every third battery hit must be against an X-Battery.") I can't find one, can anyone else? I'm not saying it is needed; just making sure it didn't get missed. The rule may not exist because there hasn't been a ship that mixed Battery types or APR/AWR together. If we don't think it is needed, I will consider it addressed and dropped.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:19 am: Edit

No damage priority rule for batteries or APRs.

By John Pepper (Akula) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 11:32 am: Edit

How, if in any way, will this rule be shown in F&E?? Perhaps with a limited number of X upgrade counters that add to a ships attack rating??

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:48 pm: Edit

IIRC, SVC said he didn't want to introduce XP to F&E at this time.

That said I could see a very simple formula where one XEP buys one point of ComPot for a SC3 ship (one max per). One half point (must buy one point at a time) buys the XP refit on a SC4 unit.

The major problem is showing it on the map. Could be the only way is to produce a mess of XP ship counters. That would kind of suck. I wonder if there might be a way to mark a counter non-permanently.

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to think on that... there might be a way that could be used for other things too.

By John Wyszynski (Starsabre) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Does the rule need to state a year of availability, or is (XR8.0) enough? Campaigns may not be bound by (S8.0) limits. A simple statement up front like "XP refits are available in Y181" or "XP refits are available at the same time a race builds their first X-Ship" would cover this.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 01:56 pm: Edit

It won't be in F&E at all. Incremental upgrades.

Loren: I said I wouldn't put XP into F&E at all at any time.

If you don't use S8 you still need a year and the year is given in S8. I don't see any reason to repeat it somewhere else.