Kenneth Jones: You said that a Type-4/8 drone should be able to get by (two in six) at point blank but that really isn't a concern. If you are taking a full power shot at R1 or using both rapid pulse shots makes no difference. And both rapid pulse is an autokill for both the Ph-1X and the Ph-5. There is no getting by that.

========================
Here is LSK's Version Ph-5

Actually, I am calling it the LSK version only because I did the actual manuel work but truely it was the result of the entire group because it was an overall colaberation and built on some of the work of other, John Trauger in one specific case. I defend this version mainly because it is not just my work but somethin built by the X-Files posters.

THIS IS NOT TO SAY IT'S PERFECT. That can't be said at this time but it does deserve to be... on the current stage.

It does two things: It does generally more damage due to a more powerful beam and better targeting. The better targeting gets you a more even damage result. It's top end is only 1 point more powerful than a Ph-1.

The concervativeness of the design (and Kenneths) is a tribute to the maturity of the designers. It is both satisfying and realistic. Yes the half Mega-Phaser was the original working model (actually an exact 1/2 Ph-4 was) but that was too munchkin and we all agreed on the very quickly.

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Hey guys, this is a very interesting discusion of the future of Phaser Designs. I think both of those Tables are quite interesting proposals for a Ph-5 X2 Phaser. They seem to give the Phaser a slight boost in Firepower and a little extra range for Phaser/Saber deuling. I play a lot of Starfleet Command Orion Pirates, and I know that the X2 ships are just way too superior compared too GW and X1 ships, especially in duels. I'm really glad that SVC and others are trying too make X1 ships and X2 ships work (balanced) and that GW ships at least have a fighting chance against X ships.

I've noticed in earlier posts that people want a Defensive Ph-6 to correspond with the Ph-5. Is this really nessessary? If Ph-1X's can fire as Rapid Pulse Ph-3's against small targets (can't work against Ships I guess). Couldn't you have a Ph-5 have the same Rapid Pulse Capabilities as a Ph-1X but have it able to attack ships aswell? This would make each Ph-5 sort of a semi-Gatling Phaser, but would make a Ph-5 a little more handy for up close attack. Ya, a couple of Ph-3 shots would actually result in less potential damage then a luck die roll "1" Ph-5 (with a maximum 10 points of damage), but you have a great chance of causing higher Damage potential with the Rapid Pulse Ph-3 at close range against ships and still have some ability too destroy Drones. And just to point out, another ability of the using the Rapid Pulse Ph-3 for the Ph-5, since most of the proposals want too have the Ph-5 use 1.5 points of power (why? I do not know, I think for simplicity sake just a standard 1 point of power would be ok) having each Rapid Pulse Ph-3 would only use up 0.5 points of power. So even though the Rapid Pulse Ph-3 may not be a great weapon system as compared to the Ph-5, it does save you more power in the long run then compared to a Ph-1X.

And are we sure X2 Drones are going to have to require +8 points of damage to destroy? Maybe they will only require 6 points for the Standard X2 Drone. Even Early Years Drones required the same amount of damage as Pre-GW/GW Drones to destroy. X2 Drones might only need 6 Points to take out.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Dan, if you have the rapid pulse be capable of hitting ships then people will use that because the damage is so great it's the only real winning option. This was the case with the original X2 and it fail misserably, due in large part to the tactic of Close-and-Hose.

That was the reason X1 phasers ended up not being able to rapid pulse except at X-aegis targets.

THe same will remain true for X2. I have absolutly NO doubt that SVC will not even consider for a moment rapid pulsing at ships.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Loren, the problem is we really dont know what kind of plans SVC has in store for SFB's... maybe the Zorkians will have rapid pulsing phasers... It would make the Alpha Races defense more difficult!!!

Rabid pulsing (excuse me, 'Rapid Pulsing' - the dreaded "close and hose" tactic) combined with programed movement rules for the Zorks would make them a difficult challenge up front... but being able to predict movement and combat procedures would aid in defeating them down the road.

I'm not saying that I know what the Steves will do... just that they may choose an option that we might not otherwise expect.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 01:48 am: Edit

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Couldn't you have a Ph-5 have the same Rapid Pulse Capabilities as a Ph-1X but have it able to attack ships aswell? This would make each Ph-5 sort of a semi-Gatling Phaser, but would make a Ph-5 a little more handy for up close attack.

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By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 01:53 am: Edit

J.W.:

Close an hose gatling style weapons may be good for an entire race (Hell it is the Hydran Fusion ships) but for ten odd GP races, it gets to be too limiting on the players.

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 04:07 am: Edit

Hmm... I still don't understand. Forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying too see how a Rapid Pulse Ph-5 (using Ph-3 Table) is not a good idea here. If we use the two Ph-5 Charts above (Lorens or Kenneths's) , a couple of Ph-3 shots don't seem to be as effective as using a Standard Ph-5 Shot, so that means if you set your Ph-5's to Rapid Pulse you are limiting the weapons ability because the Ph-3 just doesn't have much range and have lower Damage Potential compared to a Standard Setting Ph-5 (ie. 10 Points of Max Damage). But if Rapid Pulse Ph-5's could hit Ships, and if the Rapid Pulse only required 1 Point of power compared to Standard 1.5 (old Archive records seem to indicate that people want the Ph-5 to use 1.5) the Rapid Pulse Phaser has the benefit of being more Power Effecient. Its not a whole lot of power you save, but every little bit can help.

Yes, I do understand fully of peoples concerns (including myself) that the "Close and Hose" Tactic is probably not what we want, but I don't see how my suggest would incourage such tactics? You have to get REALLY close to use the Rapid Pulse to damage ships effectively and its still not very good in damaging them compared to using a Standard Ph-5 shot. The only real benefit of using it too attack ships with it is that you can save power or use it defensively to destroy Drones targeted on you (as it should be).

Micheal Cambell Jones: " On the Ph-6 itself.
It's only really needed if we have speed 40 drones of some kind. Rapid pulse Ph-3s just don't have enough reach so we'll need a longer range point defense weapon and hence the Ph-6 of some kind.
If we absolutely don't have speed 40 drones (although speed 40 plasma may have already broken this restriction ) then we won't need the Ph-6."

Ok, I can understand this. If Drones are speed 40 in X2, I can see a Rapid Pulse Ph-3 having some problems destroying Drones at greater Ranges (possibly due to speed), but why are your trying to destroy a Drone at longer Ranges? Is this for Escort Role Tactics or something? And as I had said above, who is too day that X2 Drones will be +8 in Damage Resistance?

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 07:46 am: Edit

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Loren, the problem is we really dont know what kind of plans SVC has in store for SFB's... maybe the Zorkians will have rapid pulsing phasers... It would make the Alpha Races defense more difficult!!!

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It's only really needed if we have speed 40 drones of some kind. Rapid pulse Ph-3s just don't have enough reach so we'll need a longer range point defense weapon and hence the Ph-6 of some kind.
If we absolutely don't have speed 40 drones (although speed 40 plasma may have already broken this restriction ) then we won't need the Ph-6."

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By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 11:15 am: Edit

Dan,
The Close-and-hose tactic was closing to point blank (R1 or R0). The Ph-5 was supposed to rapid pulse the Ph-6 and we didn't want to add too many modes but even to say it only rapid pulses Ph-3 on ships is still encouraging close and hose because you still have to role a die. Yes, 2 x Ph-3 does have a lower high end damage potential but it has a much higher average potential. A R1 is is reasonable to expect 8 points on average with a few at 6. A narrow salvo would be a good way to go for each mount.

Of course, if you rapid pulse Ph-6's at ships that is definately a no way.

Then there is the whole philosophy of the Y205 X2 era and stuff that affects how things work. Rapid Pulsing at ships isn't something that is peace minded.

By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Loren (and other interested parties),

Please see my reply in the "X2 Requirements" section.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Dan:

Basically, the old X1 overloaded phaser rules said you couldn't use an overloaded phaser outside R5 but when you did, two points of power got you 50% more damage rounded down ( Oh and the phaser caps held 2 points of power (as they still do )) so your 3.5 points of damage you usually generate with Ph-1s at R5 becomes a full 5 points of damage.
Now with Four Photons of which every kind of fastloaded photons having some chance of being unable to fire; everybody used fastload standards (unless firing in the R0-1 bracket) which generated an average damage at R5 of 16 points of damage every turn. The six disruptors of the Klingon DX also generated at R5 some 30 points of damage (anyone see a Klingon advantage here???).
However the 8 to 9 overloaded Ph-1s that theses ships could fire would generate 40-45 points of damage.
Net result (for the Feds at least) is that the miniscule damage the heavy weapons can generate for you in comparison to what the phasers can devliver (each and every turn) causes people to build their tactics entirely around the X1 phasers which were Ph-1s (overload capable) for each and every race.


On rapid pulsing against ships.
Okay, so you limit rapid pulsing to ships and limit it to 2Ph-3 shots.
At R2 you can generate an average of 6 points of damage.
The Ph-5 will generate 6.5 points of damage.
At that point one has got to ask why one is even bothering to use rapid pulsed Ph-3s???
Now I'ld like to see the Ph-5 rapid pulse as 3Ph-3 shots to keep drone defenses high the way there were in the X1 period but if it does come to pass and you can fire rapid pulses against ships, you can bet your bottom dollar that some one will be firing 3Ph-3 shots against ships and that'll yeild an average of 9 points of damage each. Then if you've got six of them bearing, you'll generate 39 points of damage (@ R2) from regular Ph-5 shots and 54 points of damage from rapid pulsing them and those extra 15 points of damage cost you nothing except saying, "switch to rapid pulsing".
Also since rapid pulsing is linked to Aegis; do you want people having two vollies every impulse when attacking an enemy ships and generating crippling mizia blows?

I don't mind the idea of rapid pulsing against ships from a numerical point of view as much as dislike it from a racial flavour point of view.
Perhaps the Hydrans might invent such a system so the long range of the Ph-5 can help the Hellbore ships and the rapid pulsing of the Ph-3 shots would allow thweir phasers to back up their fusion beams.
But the difficultly is getting it to be so much stronger than a regular Ph-5 shot that it's worth memorising the rule but not so much stronger than Ph-5 shots that every single player using it as his primary battle plan every single time.

Also not that many players would like to see the Ph-5 down-fire as a Ph-1 shot which will do 4.83 points of damage for that single point of power (beating the rate of 4.33 per point of power generated by the Ph-5) so if you wanted to down fire for power reasons then that would be a better option than opening the Pandora's box of rapid pulsing against ships.

Please just call me MJC like everybody else (except SPP) does.

As to drones at longer range.
It's not the 8 points of toughness that the drone can handle that requires a Ph-6. It the reliability of the Ph-3 at R2. If a drone is moving at speed 40 then it'll jump range by 2 hexes every eight impulses. But when firing Ph-3s at R2, you have their lousy results of 1 and 2 and even 3 in the bottom half of the table. You basically need to fire off as many Ph-3 shots as the toughness of the drone to garrenttee the destruction of the drone (except for the effects of X-Aegis) so the drones become particularly deadly and we don't want that...we want drones that require being shot up and then the phasers requiring recharging which then is such a drain on power that the attack can chase down and huse is "real weapons" to hurt and kill the target.

On 8 damage specifically.
If you look at the table of progression. What numbers would you use???

Drone	Warhead	Toughness	Endurance	Speed
I	12	4	3	8
IV	24	6	3	8
II	12	4	2	12
V	24	6	2	12
IM	12	4	3	20
IVM	24	6	3	20
IF	12	4	3	32
IVF	24	6	3	32
VII	18	6	5	32 (varrible)
VIII	24	8	5	32 (Varrible)
X	Unkonwn	Unknown	Unknown	32 (varrible) or 40 (possibly varrible too)
XI	Unkonwn	Unknown	Unknown	32 (varrible) or 40 (possibly varrible too)

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 09:23 pm: Edit

Loren: "Dan,
The Close-and-hose tactic was closing to point blank (R1 or R0)."

Thats strange, I always thought the "Close and Hose" situation occured usually around Range 4 or 5? Am I wrong on this?

I probably shouldn't try to continue to argue about this, but I'm still puzzled in how the Rapid Pulse Ph-3 would create "Close and Hose"? Since the Damage potential of a Rapid Pulse Ph-3 is not as good as a Standard setting Ph-5 I'm not sure if I would want to close to R1 or R0 to use it as a way to fight against other ships. Come on guys! Would you try to use Rapid Pulse Phasers against a Romulan Plasma boat or a Fed with Fully Overloaded Photons (with 10 to 20 point warheads as I have read in other forums) not too mention a few Drones heading your way? Thats crazy! Ya, they have the benefit of hitting ships, but like I said above, they aren't very effective at it and its a system still designed mostly to counter Seeking weapons and Fighters. The only real benefit of it is too save a little power. Its not much power, but Power is life in this game right?

All these other proposals don't seem to be all that "inovative" anyways. Your guys Ph-5 tables are nice, but they are simply an "up-gunned" Ph-1 that requires more power. I don't see how these Ph-5's would create "Totally new Tactics"? I thought that we want the Ph-5 (and I guess other X Tech) to perform differently compared to previous Phasers? If this Ph-5 is simply an upgunned Ph-1X, why make the Ph-5? Might well just stick with Ph-1X's then because they are more power effecent. Ya, these Ph-5 tables create a little more Firepower and Range, but they are powerhogs compared to a Ph-1X. If I was a ship designer, I would settle for more Power efficent Ph-1X's anyday because I could use the extra power for something else. Granted, the Rapid Pulse Ph-3 does boarder on making the weapon into a "Jack of all trades" system, but I'm just saying its got to do something a little more inovative then a Ph-1X otherwise why make a Ph-5? And I'm not asking for a lot of inovativeness.

And the Ph-6 is an interesting idea, but again, all these proposals seem like an "Up-gunned" Ph-3. Ya, the Ph-6 proposals have longer ranges, but are we too make X2 ships as both Warships and Escort Ships? Because I don't see a real need for a longer Range Ph-3 unless we are trying to make X2 ships into Escort Ships aswell. Ya, a longer Range Ph-6 would be handy against Drones that require more damage to kill, but who is too say X2 drones will require that? Maybe X2 Drones are simply a Type IV Drone Chase with a New type of Drive System and equiped with a Nuke Warhead using a new type of Medium (Colbalt or some type of "Trekbable" Explosive)?

Mike Raper: "Doesn't matter. It's one thing if the Xorkalians get such a thing as a unique racial weapon...it's quite another for everyone to have that ability. It's tantamount to slapping gatling phasers all over every single X2 ship produced, and that isn't happening. Nothing from Supplement 2 is going to be resurrected in a new X2 module."

I thought Gatling Phaser Technology is the Ultimate Point Defense Weapon in the game system? I would think all Empires (regardless of the Xorkalians role in X2) would love to arm there ships with Gatling Phasers. Rapid Pulse Ph-3's maybe somewhat a "Gatling Phaser", but with only two shots, its quite limited. And a Standard Gatling is much more Power Effiecent then a Rapid Pulse Phaser for the same Energy Cost.

The only thing that makes me agree with people on a Ph-6 is the ability to damage a Seeking weapon twice that is targeted on your ship. You use it too damage a Seeking weapon at long Range, then use another shot to Damage it some more or Destroy it, but the only way I can see a 1 Turn firing Phaser to be able to do this is too move at Full speed and have the seeking weapon close the distance slowly. Either way, I still wonder how a Ph-6 (with much longer Range then a Ph-3) can be armed for 0.5 points of power compared to a Ph-5 that required 1.5.

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 09:38 pm: Edit

After a little thought about the Rapid Pulse Fire, how about this idea (haven't read enough Archives yet too know if this was proposed before). Too keep the Weapon from turning into a Gatling, allow it too hit ships, but for "Cool Down" purposes, it can only fire once ever Impulse (or possibly once every 2 Impulses). This would limit its ability and not quite turn it into a Gatling Phaser.

Heck, if X1R is still in the "Design Phase" (I only have the Original X1 Module so I don't know much about X1R), perhaps this is one way to fix the Rapid Pulse Feature of X1 ships? Maybe have an Impulse Delay too keep it from turning into Gatling as people seem to fear the "Close and Hose" situation.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Dan Doulas, do try to read the archives.

I havent been following the X files as closely as Loren or some others have... but I know we have gone around on this merry go round atleast 3 or 4 times over the last several years.

The General Consensis has been (and I suspect, still is) that pulsed phasers are broken.

I am not disagreeing with your points, simply pointing out that you are not the first to present them.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:10 am: Edit

Dan:

The range depends on the weapon.
Old X1 happened at R5 because that's exactly the first impulse where overloaded phasers could work.
Suppliment 2 allowed phasers to fire as Ph-Gs so R2 or closer was the close and hose range.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:52 am: Edit

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Since the Damage potential of a Rapid Pulse Ph-3 is not as good as a Standard setting Ph-5 I'm not sure if I would want to close to R1 or R0 to use it as a way to fight against other ships.

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Its not much power, but Power is life in this game right?

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By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 03:54 am: Edit

MJC: I tried to read what you just said above and although you have some valid points, It was extremely difficult to understand what you where trying too say. :P As for Racial Flavor (which was one point I think I did understand in you last post) I can agree with this, but why do races have to have Racial Flavor when concerning Phasers? All Races by the end of the General War had developed Ph-1's for there ships, Ph-2's were basically the "Poor Mans" Phaser by that time, and all X1 ships use the Ph-1X. Even during the end of the Early Years period and during the Pre-GW period, I thought the reason that many races used Ph-2's still was that it was a Cheap Weapon System too install Compared to the Ph-1, the Racial Flavor was merely a By-product of the game mechanics we play in SFB. Now if you want too copy this concept for certain Races, then perhaps some X2 ships simply have Ph-1's or Ph-1X's to save on costs after the General War and Andro War.

As for the Rapid Pulse Ph-3, I forgot about the Mizia Tactics that could be used too strip weapons. Its been a very long time since I have played SFB (Recently, I just play Fed Commander which has quite a bit of differences compared to SFB) so I forgot about this side effect. But what about my Proposal above about limiting the Rapid Pulse Ph-3 to 1 shot per Impulse? This could be used for Both Ph-1X and Ph-5's (I would eliminate the Ph-6 personally) and might help eliminate the "Close and Hose" situation some. The only down sides I could think of is that it would make destroying Drones and Fighters a bit more difficult, but that could be a positive thing because it might give GW Ships at least a chance to fight with X Ships. Also, it would force Designers too still rely on installing simple Ph-3 mounts for added Point Defense Protection on Hulls if they can fit them in. Is this just too radical of a change for X1 and X2 ships to make Rapid Pulse work like this?

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 05:58 am: Edit

On racial flavour with Phasers.
That's my thinking. If building Ph-5s cost X2P (X2 EP ) and building X1 Ph-1s costs XP (x1 EP) then it's cheaper ( assuming X2P in the post Andro Period is like XP in the GW as laid out in the F&E rules ) to outfit an X2 Cruiser with 12Ph-1s than 8Ph-5s which is why some races would opt for that phaser suite.
Some players would rather 4Ph-5s (Klingon boom ) and 6Ph-1s (Wing & Waist phasers on a Klingon ) to to be the Klingon suite (being the equal of 12Ph-1s if you use the 2Ph-5:3Ph-1 ratio).


As for Rapid Pulsing being not much better.
That's the difficulty. You want to design something that is so good that people will want to use it but not so good that people are forced to use it or lose the game. The trouble withthat is that if you water it down too much, you lose any likelihood that anybody will want to use it.
Better to just let the 2Ph-5 dish up the around the same (although better at longer range) damage as 3Ph-1s in the critical ranges. That is at R8, 3Ph-1s will generate 6.5 damage and 2Ph-1s will generate 7 and so the ship's phaser suites will fit into the same range of outputs as X1 ships. This is something we are looking for. XCAs being at still able to go toe to toe with a CX...otherwise the Admirals and the Governmenets just wouldn't put funds into it.

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 07:02 pm: Edit

MJC: Let me see if understand your idea here on how you would like Ph-5 too work. So for every 2 Ph-5 Mounts, they could also be fired as 3 Ph-1's? Can these Ph-1's fire at ships or are they just limited to small targets (Seeking Weapons, Fighters)? In some ways, I do kinda like this as its actually a better weapon system then trying to design a Ph-6 Table. For simplicty sake, why not just use a Ph-2 table?

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 09:04 am: Edit

Use a P2 table instead of creating a P6 table from scratch? I could support that.

I could support rapid pulse of a P5 as 2P2, but not as 3Panything.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 10:49 am: Edit

The Ph-2 was too powerful at long ranged and didn't produce the right damage curve for close range (it was a poor defense phaser). A new chart was needed to fit the characteristic of "Point Defense Phaser".

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:22 am: Edit

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MJC: Let me see if understand your idea here on how you would like Ph-5 too work. So for every 2 Ph-5 Mounts, they could also be fired as 3 Ph-1's? Can these Ph-1's fire at ships or are they just limited to small targets (Seeking Weapons, Fighters)? In some ways, I do kinda like this as its actually a better weapon system then trying to design a Ph-6 Table. For simplicty sake, why not just use a Ph-2 table?

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By Alan Trevor (Thyrm) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 12:20 pm: Edit

MJC,

I'm not trying to start a flame war, and I hope you don't take personal offense at this, but that table is poorly thought out.

1. Assuming the options are as you say, if there's any race in the entire SFU that would go with a pure ph-5 loadout, it would be the Tholians. I can only assume you don't really understand the tactical dynamics of webs, or this would be obvious. Let me give two examples (though I could give more than that).

By Y205, every Tholian standard warship (including older GW and X1 technology) will have either webcasters or snares. And webcasters having been in production since Y184, any Tholian fleet, or even an important squadron, will have true webcaster support. So the Tholians want those ph-6s for... what exactly? Seeking weapon defense with that much web support?

Second example; Tholian phasers firing through non-adjacent web suffer damage reduction on a per-phaser basis. Thus 2 ph-5s firing through a web three hexes away (i.e. two open hexes between the Tholian ship and the web) would suffer a total reduction in damage of 4 points. But 3 phaser-1s under the same circumstances would suffer a total of 6 points reduction and 4 ph-6s would suffer 8 points reduction. Firing through non-adjacent web happens often enough, both in base defense scenarios and in open space battles where webcasters are involved, that the Tholians are much better off with fewer but more powerful phasers.

2. Romulan KR has 4 ph-5s and 6 ph-1s but Hawk has 8 ph-5s??? First of all, why would their even be an X2 Klingon-Romulan ship at all, given that the Romulans have long ago developed the capability to build basic hulls and engines as good as anyone else's? But let's assume that the Klingons do supply the Romulans with some X2 hulls, perhaps because the shattered Romulan economy can't produce very many X2 hulls on its own. What is the tactical dynamic that would cause the Romulans to put different phaser suites on the different hull types? Surely the "threat" is the same for each ship, and whichever phaser suite was best for one would be best for the other?

3. Why would the Kzinti mount that forest of phaser-6s in the X2 era? The original Kzinti CS was designed when the major threat was... other Kzinti. But as far as fighting external enemies goes, what purpose does the huge phaser-6 suite serve? Drone defense? But Federation and Klingon X2 ships would presumably have to be much more worried about Kzinti drones than Kzinti would have to be worried about Fed or Klink drones. If anything, it's the Feds and the Klingons (the Lyrans have the ESG, of course) who would need expanded phaser-6 suites at the expense of longer ranged phasers.

I apologize if the tone of this post comes across as hostile or insulting. But I am bound to say I think your table is the result of bad analysis. It looks like you took the phaser suites of the Middle Years cruisers and tried to translate those into X2 terms. Sorry, but that's the wrong approach. Those MY phaser suites were based on the technological and geo-strategic (umm... astro-strategic) realities of the Middle Years. Phaser suites for X2 ships need to be based on the technological and strategic realities of the post-Andromedan period. While most of us want X2 ships to be like MY ships in the sense that they will be "general purpose" rather than "combat monsters", that doesn't mean simply taking the MY phaser suites and updating is appropriate. The X2 ships may have fewer weapons than the hull would otherwise support, in order to allow room for non-combat type systems, but the actual design of the phaser suite still needs to be based on an analysis of the actual requirements for that specific race.

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Loren, I'm not sure I totally agree with you that a Ph-2 Table is not enough for good Seeking Weapon Defense. TOS supports the idea of your guys Ph-5 table to Rapid Pulse as 2 Ph-2's (and I think I agree with this aswell) and I think this could be enough for good Drone Defense. Ya, a Ph-2 doesn't have a lot of Long Range firepower, but as I said above, who is too say that an X2 Drone (and I guess an X1 drone too) is just basically a Type IV Drone Chase, new type of Warhead, a better Drive System, and able to withstand only 6 points of Damage then 8? A couple of Ph-2 shots should be enough to destroy a Drone with a Resistance of 6 points. I would think that this is a pretty safe way to approach an X2 Defensive Phaser then trying to invent a whole new Defensive Phaser Table.

MJC: A very interesting proposal there. A little more complicated then what I would like too see, but I think it would definitly give each race some "Racial Flavor". I have to admit, if each race feilded X2 ships with nearly the same Phaser Load-outs, it would be kinda boring. I play a lot of Starfleet Command Orion Pirates and I must admit the X ships (which are all based on the old X1 module) do feel like they all play sort of the same. Heck, maybe this type of approach could be used for X1R aswell (although maybe not quite as extreme).

By Dan Doulas (Magnum357) on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Also, I would like to point out another possible reason for just using a Ph-2 table Rapid Pulse Phaser Defense is that this might help give GW and X1 ships a fighting chance against an X2 ship. Also, it might even give GW Fighters a little better chance to engage an X2 ship aswell (at least at longer ranges). Yes, the Ph-2 has slightly better Damage Outputs at certain ranges, but this might be needed if X2 Plasma is much more deadly.