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	Archive through March 29, 2007	25		02/23 08:34am

Paul,

My original plan was to include at least Base Stations for all of the races, and a heavier base for the Maesron, Vari, Koligahr, and Trobin. The Sigvirion's getting a single Base Station equivalent.

I could of course skip it just for them and replace the SSD with another ship that falls between the FF and CA, and boot the BS to a future module.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 02:31 pm: Edit

When it comes to providing logistical units for the Loriyill Collective, I would request that something different than the norm be considered for the faerie species.


I would like to see at least one, if not more, of the Loriyill units shown to be specifically tailored to support the kind of long-range 'expeditionary' forces that the Splinter Collective launched into the Void, and the First Collective sent into the Wasteland and beyond the Galactic Rim, in their major operations against the Souldra.


(Perhaps some of these units could have been used, pre-phaser-adoption, in the last war the Loriyill fought against the dark-energy invaders. Perhaps a long-term effort to prepare the groundwork for a potential counter-invasion was on-going even during the First Cycle?)


The Loriyill don't have a whole lot to do in the era of the First Great War, other than keep troublemakers away from the Homestars - but when it comes to dealing with the Souldra their role is crucial...

...and if they are set for inclusion here anyway, this could be as good a place as any to show the building blocks of their ultimate victory.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 02:42 pm: Edit

re: Omega Stellar Fortresses

For those of you following SPP's conversion in the introduction of these, and Omegan possible ideas.

My original idea was to have all of the Omegan SB's unique, and that many races wouldn't get them at all (the biggest base would be a Sector Base, SC-2). Any race that dies out wouldn't get them for example, and the Hivers and Alunda wouldn't get them at all either. The Hivers because they just can't build anything that big, and the Alunda because I couldn't imagine having to feed one (unless it was literally in the middle of a food source).

So that means to me off the top of my head only: Maesron, Trobrin, Koligahr, Vari, Drex, Loriyill, Phon (probably introduced right before 2nd great war), Probr. (Basically all the basic races except Hiver/Alunda).

Then the "maybes" are: FRA, Qixa, Worb (again right before 2nd Great War), Iridani (post-Crusade). (Maybe a unique Souldra SB at the Dark Sun that the Loriyill destroy to end the Souldra threat).

My plan was to make them all varying in strength (so the Probr SB is definately different than the Trobrin which is different than the Vari). I had an idea in the back of my mind that I'd try to make a 4-module Maesron SB (with the modules in the NW, SW, NE, SE positions) each covering 90-degrees. While weaker than the Trobrin SB, it would be cheaper. But I hadn't really explored the damage taking ability of such a layout as this, so I don't know how do-able it is.

They could have an upgrade SB pre-2nd Great War to what I was going to call a "Heavy Starbase" for them, making it into a 6-module SB. But the "Stellar Fortress" name could fit it as well.

Also, with how many SSD pages I was planning to "allocate" to SB's (few), giving any race a 2nd SB SSD for a Stellar Fortress seems a pie-in-the-sky dream right now. I'd first want to get a few designs down (right now i've only finished the Trobrin)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 03:37 pm: Edit

A few thoughts:


*For the Vari, perhaps only the Vriss cell (near the Drex border, noted as being the best at riding out the Invasions "due to their reliance on a strong defense", the ones who unified the remaining cells in its aftermath, and were perhaps in the rump of Vari territory not taken over by the Vulpa Confederacy after the Vulpa-Vari war of Y213-217) would get something akin to a fortress.


*I might add the Branthodons to the list of maybes, depending on how their ground-based bases are to be setup. If, say, a starbase is comprised of a series of interconnected modules on a planetary surface, the door might potentially be open for more modules to be added to bring the base up to something like fortress standards.


*In terms of relative base strength, I'd say that the Drex really ought to shine in this regard - to earn the notoriety their defences spread amongst their neighbours, and make the Unity that bit tougher for the Andromedans to crack.

(If there is a premium on spare space, I might suggest the Drex be the ones to get a fortress SSD, to echo this notoriety.)


*I really like the idea of a unique base at the Black Sun for the Souldra - preferably as big and terrifying as it can be (while still being just about defeatable by the Splinter Collective expedition).


*A good point of comparison might be in the Magellanic Cloud, where (so far) only the Maghadim have starbases, and what the bugs call a base station is somewhat different from those the Baduvai and Eneen would have fielded.


Oh, and away from bases for a moment:


*I had once asked about workboats for some Omega powers.

Could there be room for some of these in the rulebook for this module?

(In Module R11, the various workboats presented are shown in each empire's R-section, not posted separately in the SSD book.)


EDIT: Back to bases:


*That built-from-4-modules base idea really sounds like it would be better for the Probr - whose currently-published logistics base is already set up in a similar manner.


EDIT 2:


*Speaking of one of those maybes listed above, there was an idea I had in mind.

If the Mæsrons end up building something like a fortress (or heavy starbase), maybe they could offer to build one at Aurora III, as part of the deal signed to bring the FRA into the Alliance in Y209?

Thus, the FRA heavy base would be a common hull design with an Auroran-tuned weapons suite - ironically, echoing the similarities between such bases among powers back in the Alpha Octant.

(You could perhaps even put the two on the same SSD, with a list showing which mounts fit which systems when used in, or out, of Auroran space.)

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 08:34 am: Edit

Phons?

Why would they build/ want one?

You'd have to grow it up from a darn complat and have a Phon that wanted to live on a base for decades/ centuries...

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 08:49 am: Edit

The Phons could either ferry new base commanders via dreadnought, or perhaps build them on the ground (with, or without, some kind of automated modules in orbit - think one large core module on the planet and 4-6 modules in space, for example).


With the likes of the Andromedans and Souldra to watch for, as well as a likely wish to make Association core space as much trouble for anyone to re-occupy as they can, I could imagine the desire for stronger fortifications - though they may need some unique means of making it happen.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 11:36 am: Edit

With the Phons, it would seem that a ground-based starbase would be a better idea.

Instead of it being controlled by just one Phon, why not groves of Phons. Something more akin to a family community where each family(tree-type) runs a different module/base off a central control base/core. These planetary bases could also have shipyards in orbit. Thereby individual phons (young or old) wanting to go explore the galaxy could leave their grove and have starships built up for them when they wish, based on available resources.

After all the Phons most likey had to start as saplings from somewhere.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 11:42 am: Edit

If Phons are too big to transport (are they? I'm not sure...) or if they simply want to rely on an alternate means of getting to and from a planetary surface, maybe some of their bases could have an orbital node linked to the surface via space elevator?

One could run the pods carrying Phons (and work teams of Keepers) up and down, as and when required.


Plus, with the need to at least maintain some kind of orbital yards (compared to the Branthodons, who would simply keep their dragonships on the ground when necessary - I don't recall whether Phon ships are able to land on planets or not) an elevator system could be a neat distinguishing factor for the Association's logistical network.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Well my thought with the Phons at least, was after being conquered by the Maesrons, they wouldn't want THAT experience to happen again.

So they would built a bigger, badder defenses over the homeplanet(s) (if they have multiple systems.

Probably pre-2nd Great War. They see the octant winding up for war again, and don't want to be conquered again.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 01:36 am: Edit

Well, it's worth noting that the Alliance never actually tried to take any Phon core planets - the Association pretty much accepted defeat after their navy was swept aside.

(There's not much word on what, if anything, the Probr did when they took the Alliance's place after the Collapse - though they seemingly didn't bother the Phons too much either, and let them go and do the Andro-investigating to boot.)


So, there might have still been at least some defence networks in place from before the conquest, and from which the Phons could build up once the younger species have moved along...

By Tim Longacre (Timl) on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Just my 2 cents:
I remember reading in opening pages of either O1 or O2 that the Drex and the Koligahr excelled at building bases/defensive structures, with the Drex's biggest ones officially being called "Star Fortresses", and every race that built large bases had their own unique style to them (I can specify exactly where that is after work today).

By Steve Zamboni (Szamboni) on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 03:29 pm: Edit

Given the legend of "world trees" (Yggdrasil), could there be a Phon form that does act as a space elevator? (Engineering issues aside: low gravity world, orbital tethers to guide vines or shoots up, diamond-mesh weave embedded in the trunk, etc.)

Pre-space Phon could have used such a...being...as a launch system to throw seeds or saplings into orbit without the issues of pushing delicate - and heavy - Phon into space using chemical rockets. The current Phon culture may still have a few organic elevators on the home worlds along with artificial ones on colonised planets that were unsuitable growing elevators.

(Envisions a Phon base in geocentric orbit two hexes from the planet - the "tuft" - with the entire planet available as an ammunition magazine thanks to the railhead at the base of the trunk...yes, I know where the booth is...)

By Yves Steinbruegge (Koyote) on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Is this product still under consideration? If so, I would love to provide input on the Hivers

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, May 13, 2010 - 10:38 pm: Edit

It's kinda on hold waiting for SPP to get back to me regarding the numerous bases that I've submitted.

And we have to iron down "approved" phaser-4 equivalents for the various phaser-types.

By Kevin Humar-Barrett (Cheethorne) on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 06:56 am: Edit

Will this be the next Omega product? I was kind of hoping for the product that would feature the Omega equivalent of the war ships (speed-30 capable size-3 ships).

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 09:19 am: Edit

This product was one of the options, or a product with CW/DW/NCA later war designs. It'll all depend on ADB to make that choice.

By Troy Latta (Saaur) on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 10:34 am: Edit

Where's my Paravians at?

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 02:23 pm: Edit

The Omega-Paravians should be in the "all the other races" module. Nucian, Zosman, Scon, Jindarian Freehold, Paravian, and Echerri (sp?).

Possibly. Or the Scon/Echerri might wait to Omega-X, since those two are X-era races. IIRC.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Friday, May 14, 2010 - 05:17 pm: Edit

One thing to bear in mind is that even when the Echarri Dynasty show up, they'd still have plenty of non-X ships to face - and given the possible circumstances of their arrival in Omega, to use.

Plus, non-X Dynastic ships might be useful in pre- or mid-Exodus fights against the Andromedans (who they claim to have been fleeing from... by running into an Octant which also had Andros, oops).


Over time, I would love to see the likes of the Early Years, X-tech and other areas covered for Omega - though I'm somewhat split on whether I'd like to see the 'war' classes or bases done first.

By A. David Merritt (Adm) on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 04:41 pm: Edit

When are we likely to see more Omega Modules?

Friendly question, not intended as "DO THIS NOW!"

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 04:06 pm: Edit

A. David Merritt:

I do not know. Some of it is a question of time to work on it.

Scott Tenhoff has done a lot of work on this module, and Lord knows he probably felt much put upon when his Base designs were savagely disected upon submission (sorry Scott, I know you worked hard on those).

I really do need to sit down and try to get Scott's bases out for playtesting, but other things always seem to have a higher priority.

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 08:23 pm: Edit

I'd love to get some units past SPP too be included in a CL..... <hint, hint>

I can do 4 real easily, it's just having ADB draw them out (as I did them in CADD)

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Just a note for future consideration:

The Alliance already has the old Wallimi-hull SR in print, but is noted to have gradually seen the class worn down by attrition. (They are all long gone by the time the PFQ enters service.)

In light of these dwindling numbers, the Mæsrons could do with an NSR to take up the reins; though that might be something for the Warships module if you wanted to skip the current CA and CL hulls for whatever reason.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 05:12 pm: Edit

To expand a little on the ideas floated over in the 2012 new product selection topic, I wanted to go into more detail on the suggestion I had about potentially using the Second Great War as the main template for dividing up the current Omega empires for future publication.

-----

This conflict, which was waged from Y180 through Y191, was the largest in the currently-published timeline to include grand coalitions of empires on both sides. (The subsequent Andromedan and Souldra invasions might have left deeper scars, but the Omega empires were more or less on the same side in trying to avert the threat of mutual extinction.)

The 2GW's versions of the General War's Alliance and Coalition were the United Alliance (Union) and the Imperial Bloc:

Union:
*Mæsron Alliance
*Federal Republic of Aurora
*Probr Revolution
*Koligahr Solidarity
*Chlorophon Association
*Hivers
*Branthodon Regime

Bloc:
*Vulpa Insurgency*
*Nucian (Treska Clan only)*
*Sigvirion Expansion
*Trobrin Empire
*Vari Combine
*Alunda Host
*Worb Technocracy

Unlike the General War, where the presence of Orion mercenaries was less than wholly prominent, there were three sets of hired guns which could be found on either side:

Mercenaries:
*Iridani Questors
*Bolosco Merchant Guilds
*Zosman Maurauders*

The rest of the currently-published empires were strictly neutral (with no mercenary involvement) in the 2GW, for various reasons:

Neutrals:
*Loriyill Collective
*Ryn Enclave
*Singer Protectorate
*Souldra
*Drex Unity
*Qixa Amalgamate
*Ymatrian Horde (who were out of the picture long before the 2GW broke out)

Those empires marked with an * are from the list of empires yet to be published; we only have one confirmed Vulpa insurgent ship (the Blockade Runner) in print, and no sign of the Nucians or Zosmans at this point.

(Although, perhaps the example of the VBR could be used to give the Vulpa insurgents a few more ships using standard Mæsron technology; leaving the more advanced ships of the later Vulpa Confederacy for its own module.)

-----

So, in terms of dividing up the currently-published empires, the Union members could ge good to go as-is.

The standard Mæsron-hull transports in Captain's Log #20 would be good for the Koligahr, Probr and FRA also; so there would be less need to worry about duplication.

(In terms of actual new ships, the Branthodons may not be able to grow new variants prior to their fall in Y189; but that too could simply leave more room for the rest to get more units. And they still need some bases to support their pre-existing Dragonship fleet.)

-----

Only five of the seven Bloc empires are in print (again, excepting the VBR); if the others were to be kept for later use in their own decicated modules, perhaps the two "mercenary" empires we have published data on (the Iridani and Bolosco) could take their place this time around.

As far as transports go, the Trobrin, Vari, Worb and Iridani also use the four CL20 generics; so there would be no need to replicate them here either. Plus the Bolosco fleet has a lot of carrying capacity as it stands; so any new "warships" they might get could perhaps double as transports, as their current ships more or less do already.

Plus, in terms of bioships, it is questionable how much further the Alunda could develop their own fleet without the onset of Sigvirion-supported "X-tech"; so, as with the Branthodons, they might or might not need more actual ships (as opposed to bases and transports).

-----

This would leave the various neutrals to go into a third module.

Of those, it's questionable what kind of new Rynish ships would be feasible prior to their grand vanishing act; plus the Ymatrians would have little need for (historical) warships beyond the ones they have already. Yet both would do with more support units; as would the Singers and Souldra, two other fleets which may not have a massive amount of room for new historical warships either.

The Loriyill, Drex and Qixa should have plenty of scope for brand new warships, though.

-----

To summarise, this would lead to the following division of empires:

*Mæsron, FRA, Probr, Koligahr, Chlorophon, Hiver, Branthodon (Union),

*Sigvirion, Trobrin, Vari, Alunda, Worb, Iridani, Bolosco (Bloc and Mercenaries),

*Loriyill, Singer, Souldra, Drex, Ymatrians, Qixa, Ryn (Neutrals).

-----

There's a lot of competition for spots when it comes to SFB modules; so even if any of this was feasible, there's no guarantee that it could actually go anywhere any time soon.

Even so, does any of the above look like it might be a fair way to divide the current crop of published Omega empires, if/when the time comes for further Omega publications?

By Jack Bohn (Jackbohn) on Tuesday, August 21, 2012 - 09:46 pm: Edit

One concern: can scenarios be written using just the ships of one module? Either conflict between those nations before they allied, or battles against published ships, which can be replaced with the "war" classes when they come out. The module has to be useful before the other two show up.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Wednesday, August 22, 2012 - 01:14 am: Edit

Jack:

I'd say so.

As you point out, there would likely be fights against some of the older ships from either side of the 2GW itself; showing how many of the "legacy" hulls would still be in service, even as their new technology counterparts start to come on-stream.

Once the dust settles on the 2GW, both the Union and Bloc empires would still need the new "war" ships to fight the Souldra and Andromedans; as well as each other, during some of the bouts that took place during the subsequent Mæsron Remaissance. (One example is the border war the Mæsrons and Koligahr waged in Y212-215.)

Also, any bases or support units given an earlier YIS date would be useful in older conflicts, such as the Mæsron Collapse or the Superpower Wars.

By Gary Carney (Nerroth) on Thursday, August 23, 2012 - 01:59 am: Edit

In terms of what kind of background data a new Omega module might include, one aspect I would like to see explored is the kind of role that the neutral third-party trade ships (such as the Bolosco and Qixa) might play in the broader Omega economy.

-----

As SVC noted elsewhere, the presence of free traders and customs forms are good enough to fulfil the needs of independent traders in the Alpha Octant.

However, one of the reasons why this works for cross-border trade in Alpha is because all of the local empires use the same set of generic civilian hulls. With the occasional exception (such as the Federation Express), the same SSD is used to represent functionally-equivalent transports from ISC space all the way out to the Lyran Far Stars and back; though there are a few cases of generic hulls with peculiar atmospheric conditions (to suit Hydran and Tholian needs).

Plus, the relative stability (in peacetime) that the various Neutral Zones provide each empire can play its own role in helping things along.


However, this kind of conformity in support units does not exist in the Omega Octant.

Even if you look at the eight empires that use the Mæsron-hull units in CL20, not all of them would have the same atmospheric conditions; the Koligahr requiring an aquatic environment, to give one example. Plus, there are many other empires that do not use these designs at all; while we don't know what they might look like as of yet, we can guess at the kind of logistical difficulties that trying to support an array of "foreign" civilian hulls could place on a given Omega empire's trading ports.

(If, say, the Alunda are found to use bio-ships as transports instead of building metal hulls for the task, how much trouble would it be for a Vari or Koligahr trading post to service one?)

Plus there's the issue of cost,factored into the running of the heavily-armed convoys that are known to exist in Omega. It's stated that the four civilian hulls we've seen so far cost more than their equivalent Alpha Octant hull types to build; a factor which places great stresses on their support networks, but which (prior to the Invasions, at least) was considered to be worth the added expense.

And that's before you consider the reason why the convoys were so well-armed in the first place; the unstable nature of Omega politics. With most borders being more porous and volatile than in Alpha, and with no neutral zone hexes to provide some breathing room for trade routes to cross, the ability (or even intention) to invest in cross-border trade may have been much lower; though perhaps with a few more localised exceptions, such as between the FRA and the New Alliance.

-----

So, perhaps it may be that, in most cases, the civilian transports were used almost exclusively for "domestic" consumption; leaving a gap that the likes of the Bolosco could exploit with relish.

With a broadly-shared reputation as honest brokers, the ability of the Bolosco to forge their various trade networks would provide for an external outlet to trade that more local hull types might have struggled with. In logistical terms, configuring a local trading post to service a common set of Bolosco starships would perhaps cut down on costs; leaving more money free to be spent on the commerce which each route opened up for its various participants.

(Indeed, I could envision such agreements as being a key factor of the economic competition between the Bolosco and Qixa. If certain trading ports were unwilling to invest in the tools and training required to service both Bolosco and Qixa merchant vessels, that could lead to more keenly contested bargains offered by both empires' diplomatic representatives.)

-----

In military terms, perhaps one side-effect of this increased trade might have been the enabling of both the Union and Bloc to operate as true grand coalitions, rather than as mere alliances of convenience; and thus turning what might have been another set of brushfire conflicts into the Octant-spanning Second Great War.

While the Bolosco trade routes were eastablished well before the outbreak of the 2GW, it could be the case that the sheer volume of trade carried along these routes may have reached its peak in the Y180s; allowing for the kind of resource transfers that would feed into each belligerent's militaries, and hence heighten the intensity of this Octant-spanning conflict.

The timeline even states that several of the Union and Bloc powers were forced to slow the pace of their attacks, once the Bolosco recalled most of their trade fleets in response to the Souldra onslaught upon their home space in Y190-191.

-----

In fact, the subsequent shattering of the trading network could have been one further strike against the surviving Omega powers during the Invasions era. With no more Bolosco-backed commerce to supplement their internal trade, each home-built convoy lost to Andromedan or Souldra attacks would have been that much more keenly felt a blow from an economic perspective.

(Such a factor might help shape the Mæsron Renaissance, too. While the Qixa tried to expand their own trading concerns in this era, the lingering absence of the old Bolosco trade routes would have made life that much more difficult for the empires desperately trying to re-establish themselves.)

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So, in short, I think that the degree to which the Bolosco (and, to a lesser extent, the Qixa) affect the economies of their various trading partners should be a key point of distinction between Omega and Alpha; to the extent that most cross-border trade in this region of the galaxy is literally not the same without them.