Archive through June 08, 2007
Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board: Star Fleet Battles: SFB Proposals Board:
The "X" Files:
OLD X2 FOLDER:
X2 photons:
Archive through June 08, 2007
1) X2 Feds need a new offensive weapon:
True. The X1 Photon is a second rate Disruptor because it sold away its crunch-power. I'ld like to see 24 point Photons because it'll definately refind Fed crunch-power.
2) X2 Feds could use a lateral LLR/RRR or rear RH/RA direct fire defensive weapon like a photon rack:
False. The ability to knock down drones with GX-racks and Rapid Pulsing is quite good. That's not to say we shouldn't have a Photon based defense system just that it's not a critical need.
3) X2 Feds could use a PL-DX rack to serve the defensive role:
False. It'ld be a sad day when every Fed ship was armed with Plasma.
4) X2 Feds could use lateral PL-L torps like the ISC to serve the defensive role:
False.
5) Any new defensive weapon the X2 Feds get should replace the GX/GX2 rack:
Flase. The special abilities of the Drones (specifically ECM and Probe drones ) give the Feds abilities that protect their ship that they won't be able to replicate with the new system meaning the new system would have to be awfully good to warrent replacing drone racks and that would probably make life very unfun for certain races.
6) It would be better to create a new firing mode of the X2 photon then to create a new weapon:
True. If we want the Klingons to drop their cruisers down to 4 Disruptors instead of 6, we'll need to keep the number of HITS the Fed XCA can withstand as a low number.
Now I remember why I quit posting here.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Jeff, it was not my intention to suggest that the X2 photon would drop the ability to overload, prox or fastload. Nor was it my intention to say that it wouldn't convert to 10/20 or 12/24 warheads, or expand the arcs to FH. These are just evolutions of existing firing methods.
Having a photon that could also launch a seeking weapon is a new firing mode. Having a photon that could also fire from a rack of charges is a new firing mode. I'd prefer not to mix the offensive photon with a defensive firing mode.
'Now I remember why I quit posting here.'
Pish.
Entertainment such as this is hard to come by.
*eats more popcorn*
Tos, i didnt mean to suggest that you wanted to drop overloaded prox or fast loaded photons, sorry if I gave you that improession. 
I'm ok with not mixing offensive photons with defense photon options on the same launcher... in that sense we could be looking at a X2 Fed ship with "crunch" offensive photon launchers in their normal positions with FA firing arcs and perhaps a ISC kind of defensive photon(replacing the ISC defense plamas) mounted in the saucer in the areas where the plus refits mounted the phaser 3s... plus what ever drone racks make it into the design (X2G or whatever).
An issue that hasnt yet been made yet, is that a point defense photon thingy would have greater range than the existing ADDs and greater speeds (being a direct fire weapon) than type VI drones.
too bad photons have no effect on plasma torpedos! 
How would you feel about limiting a photon rack to X-Aegis targets?
How would you feel about having an X-Aegis rack have the ability to fire more than one photon per turn?
Well I was thinking about this for an X2 Photon firing method that would be able to fire defensively.
Photon Shotgun Mode
During the X1 period the Federation developed the Photon Shotgun Firing mode but it wasn't employed on their vessels until after the fastload ability was developed at the inception of the X2 timeframe.
Basically the Photon Shotgun Firing mode allowed the Federation to attack fighters in a more effective way and take away the ECM drones of their enemies.
• The Photon Shotgun Firing Mode loads a small array of mini Photon torpedo casings into the Phot-tube in place of a standard photon torpedo casing. Then the Photon torpedo casings are armed.
• Each mini Photon torpedo is armed with warp power on each of two consecutive turns. There are five mini torpedo casing in the each array and any number between and including 1 to 5 mini torpedo casing may be armed.
• The mini Photon torpedo may be fast loaded and may be armed as proximity Torpedoes.
• When fired; the mini photons move apart in a "group circle" and greatly increase the chance of a hit from any one of the mini-photons. Thus when fired, the attack roll is given a bonus of 1 point of ECCM per armed mini-photon after the first.
The targeting computers control the divergence of the mini-photons such that smaller targets are attacked with a smaller group circle.
• The Photon shotgun firing mode uses a standard photon torpedo launcher and is penalised by FD1.52.
• The mini Photons have the following to-hit numbers. Only one die roll is made per Photon launcher.
| R2 | R3-4 | R5-8 | R9-10 |
| 1-5 | 1-4 | 1-3 | 1-2 |
The mini Photons inflict the following damages based on the size class of the object being fired upon.
| SC | Standard Damage | Proximity Damage |
| 4 and larger | 2 | 1 |
| 5 | 4 | 2 |
| 6 and smaller | 8 | 4 |
• Proximity fire may only fire at a range of 6-10 hexes and grants a -2 die roll shift.
• On a die roll of 1, there is a chance of more than one mini photon striking the target.
Roll 1D6 and if the result is equal to or less than the number of charged mini photon casings then the rolled number shall be the number of mini photons to strike the target. Otherwise the target is simply struck by a single mini photon. If the to hit number is 1 or lower then the chance of multiple strikes does not apply.
• The Photon shotgun mode may be held for 0.2 point of power ( any kind ) per armed photon casing per turn.
In this way, by firing at R10 with Proxy mini Photons and arming with all five mini photons and spending 1 point of ECCM a Fed XCA would have a five in six chance of killing that enemy IF-ECM drone.
Type VIII-ECM drones would be somewhat harder to kill.
Tos, just so we "are on the same page" here, my understanding of X-Aegis rules is:
(XD13.0) Aegis Fire Control:
"All X-ships have a special version of Limited Aegis (two shots), which can engage seeking weapons , shuttles and PFs: This is known as X-Aegis. Note that the successive volleys will quickly wreck PF's. one of the reasons that X ships put PF's out of business. (edit)...
edit...) X-Aegis has a maximum range of 15 hexes."
In reasponse to your question about how I would feel about "limiting a photon rack to X-Aegis targets?"
... dunno, until you asked, I hadn't considered the X-Aegis rules in connection with the "photon rack" thingy. I should have, its a logical progression.
I'll think about it, but in general my thoughts are that the photon rack could be an "intermediate" range point defense system to damage or kill attrition units at ranges out side the area covered by phaser 3's, ADD rounds and defensively laid transporter bombs (ie within in the 5 hex range of transporters or dropped out of the shuttle bay).
basically the range bracket of 4(or 5) hexes up to 15 hexes from the ship.
Such a capacity would mean X ships are relatively immune to "swarm" tactics or large attrition forces.
The down side, is that the proposed "photon rack" would almost have to be less able to damage other x ships or large (size class 4 and higher) targets.
Tos, I'm answering each question in a separate post to keep from mixing things up (more than they are already!)
about having the photon rack be able to fire more than 1 photon per turn... well maybe.
As I see it, the energy cost per photon rack charge has to still be 4 points (like a normal photon).
I guess you could "fast load" the charge in 1 turn... but fast loaded photons may not be as "stable" as normal loads... so if you need it immediately (as in combat) you could load it but it must be fired within say 32 impulses of the start of the fast load.
photon charges (such as we talked about earlier) might require 2 turns to load, and need some sort of holding energy cost be it your 1 point holds all charges, or the original proposed 0.1 point of energy from any source holds a single photon charge for 1 turn.
Lets look an an example...
say a X2CA had 2 such photon racks (lets just say they have separte LS and RS arcs, non overlapping.
to fully charge 4 photon charges on 1 rack would require 2 points of warp energy for 2 turns duration, and once fully charged, needs a holding cost per turn to keep the photon charges ready to fire in the rack.
If each rack may have 4 photon charges, the energy cost of 2 racks with 4 photons each is (2*(4+4)=16 points of warp energy per turn, for 2 turns, with what ever holdong cost we pick.
(if the hold cost is 1 point per rack as you suggested, I think that means the holding cost is 2 points of power per turn to hold all 8 charges. On the other hand, if the hold cost is the 0.1 power originally proposed, the holding cost amounts to 0.8)
If the battle is short, and no further photon charges need to be begun, the question is how fast could a photon rack fire off its stored charges?
If it is patterned after the original ADD rack, then it might be reasonable to let it fire 2 or even all 4 charges in 1 x 32 impulse turn per rack... it would be devastating to any drone wave, fighter group and would seriously impact any PF's targeted.
The reload cost would be significant, hence the need to determine if phton charges could be fast loaded or would still require a 2 turn loading sequence.
I'd hate to have to take on a any X2CA with any attrition units and drones knowing how lethal the point defenses are.
I was under the impression that X1 Photons could already be fired in Aegis mode, but since the targets that would yeild the best result from this (ships) can't be given the MIZIA it just wasn't done in play.
You were under the wrong impression.
General question:
Should the "Photon Rack" have a different arming cost than regular photon torpedo launchers?
My concern is that "normal" photons (including standard 8 point warheads, overloads, proximity) damage all targets regardless of the size class but the "Photon Rack" would be targeting attrition units and small targets (PF's, fighters/shuttles and drones).
If we look at the type VI dog fight drones, they have a different damage ability based on the size class of the target, namely 2 points of damage to ships but only 8 points of damage to fighters/small targets (see rule (FD2.54).
I think it should cost standard if they are made of standards and does standard damage...mini-photon casings can cost less and should inflict less damage ( to ships).
I envision the photon rack to use an off-shoot of the technology used for an A-10. Consequently it would load the same way as an A-10 does (which I haven't looked up).
Why would the Feds develope a new weapon to take down attrition units when by Y205 attrition units were made obsolite by the previous generation? I fully expect X2 to have X-aegis controlled phasers and no X2 ship should be facing numbers of attrition units it cannot handle. To counter drones there already is a really good weapon for that, the ADD and if the ship has a ECCM advantage over the target drone the hit is 1-5 at R4. The only way to counter that is with an ECM drone or OEW on the ship itself.
I'm just not seeing much developement in anti-attrition warfare.
I sort of like the Photon Rack that uses fighter type Photon pods and fire once per turn and can be pre-loaded (non-aegis, limited range). I don't see this going on capitol ships but on small ships it would be great. A Frigate might have a couple PR while a DD might have two PR and one standard X2 photon tube. A light cruiser might have 2 + 2 while anything larger would have only standard photon tubes. Some smaller "fleet" variants would have their PR's replaced with standard photons.
PFs will still be a danger to X2 ships, if they exist. The opponents an X2 ship will face could vary immensely depending on what the background the Trade Wars adopt. My hope is that we create a Wild West situation where multi-generational combat is historically likely.
Loren,
R4? ADD is limited to Range-3 and though I'm not 100% certain, I'm about 90% confident that X-tech doesn't change that.
I think the trade wars will see some use of attrition units, particularly CVA based fighters.
Move a CVA to a newly neutral planet and demand they rejoin the empire or else they can be sent back to the stone age.
The CVA doesn't need to have the strategic speed of an X2 vessel because the planet isn't going anywhere.
Remind you of the real world late 20th Century???
Now, will a neighbouring race send an X2 task group to help defend the neutrality of that world??? Will it engage those fighters!?!
Some number of GW ships will opperate in the X2 period under the established history so the chance that fighters or PFs still get used is high.
For those who may not have seen it, there is a very interesting article in the CL35 about the fate of PFs in the post ISC pascification period (among other things). Very illuminating. It paints a picture of the Trade Wars not unlike the "wild west" charaterization that Tos mentioned.
R4... Ooops. I was thinking of 1-4 and wrote R4. R3 is the max range of an ADD.
Hmmm, maybe... nah, never mind.
Haven't seen it yet. Sounds like a must read.
Loren, perhaps I'm not seeing things the way you do... I see the X2 period as being even more dangerous to PF's fighters (and bombers) and drones than the X1 tech was... and the Photon Rack idea (and other races heavy weapons like disrupters as well, I suppose) is a way to "Clear out" a lot of small attrition units without necessarily creating an Uber ship.
The Photon Rack, having the ability to inflict 8 hit points of damage to a fighter, shuttle or drone but limited to only doing 2 points of damage to a "real ship" (as proposed earlier) would make it significantly better than ADD's and marginally better than type VI drones.
The draw back of the Photon Rack is that it is feindishly expensive in terms of warp power... and if there are no or few attrition units around to target, will result in the photon rack hardly ever being charged up.
Perhaps there needs to be some offensive capacity verses normal sized ships... but how to balance it without creating an UBer thing will be a challenge.
Loren, you may be remembering that some incarnations of the GX2 rack allowed an ADD to target a drone at R=4 with a 1-2 to hit. Pull up one of the X2 SSDs that was done.
Toss, no I was just thinking of the to hit when I was typing the range.
Jeff: I'm seeing that the X2 ship is a good PF killer anyway with existing systems on an X2 hull. That and I'm thinking of the Ph-5 (naturally the Ph-5 is not a given but it's the best thing the X-Files has come up with, IMHO).
The type of weapon you suggest will make it so that PF's are utterly useless against X2 (Feds anyway, what about other races?) and no one would ever play that scenario so why have a weapon no one will use because no one will bring a PF against a ship armed with them?
BTW, I'm not saying the weapon system by itself would make PF's utterly useless but the weapon system on an already deadly hull will. I'm wondering what will drive the Feds to developing this weapon? What need does it fill? The proposals for a X2 G-rack (B rack sized) along with the phaser-5 and photons seem like PF's will be pretty short lived already.