I'ld also like to say, I think the Hydrans dispite the fact they that shouldn't be one trick wonders, should have standard numbers of Ph-1s rather than fewer Ph-5s as this will reflct the racial flavour of the hydrans.

4 FH Ph-1s and two 360° Ph-1s and her 2 Ph-G2s will do as a nice change.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 10:28 pm: Edit

At R8 four Ph-5s will inflict 14 points of damage whilst 6Ph-1 will inflict 13.
So the idea that having more Ph-1 rahter than fwewer Ph-5s coupled with the fusion beams will force the hydrans to become boring duellers as you'll always beat them by staying at range and you'll always loose by comming to closer range, is untrue...the Dynamic of Ph-5 to Ph-1 is not as extreme at range as the Ph-1 to Ph-2 dynamic.


At R15 the 6Ph-1s are inflicting 6 points of damage ( no shift ) and the 4Ph-5s are inflicting 8 points of damage ( no shift ) so X1 number of Ph-1s is actually quite dependable even at some particularly long ranges.

By Vincent Matteo Ferrara III (Vincentferrara) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Going back to the original post that started this thread, I fall partially into camp 2 and 3. I realize that, at first glance, fusions seem to suck. But they have certain strengths as well. For instance, at range 9-15, they are actually slightly better than phaser 1's (and we all know what they can do at range 0-1). A range-10 shot with all phaser-1's and 2's and fusion beams is usually enough to create a "weakest shield", especially in a fleet battle. If you are moving fast enough, you might even avoid the traditional range-8 retaliation.

I play Hydrans most of the time. They are my favorite race. For X2 ships, however, fusions would have to be beefed up to make them a plausible addition to an advanced technology ship. As a dedicated Hydran-playing schmuck most of the time, here are the ideas I would favor:

1. Can arm and fire every turn.

2. Can be held overloaded or standard (2pts of power for overload, and 1 point for standard).

3. If you want to add something out of the ordinary, perhaps allow them an optional firing mode similar to the Jindarian rail guns. They could do, say, 1-6 damage to every size class 6 or 7 object within the firing arc, out to a range of 2 hexes.

I think this would be especially important if fighters are going to be reduced or eliminated. Armored drones are already a strain on ship-mounted gatlings (assuming the typical loadout of 2 gatlings per ship is maintained), and X-drones are likely to be even worse. Without fighters hanging around for drone defense, the Hydrans will have a rough time of it.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit

If you look into the archives for this thread, you'll find two primary upgrades for the fusion.

Jeff tonglet proposed a more powerful version of the fusion called the "nova cannon"

I proposed a "Focusable Fusion" that gave the fusion three firing modes:

Normal: works more or less as an X1 Fusion

Narrow Focus: Turns the fusion into a hit/miss weapon but it does damage equivalent to rolling a "2" at the appropriate range-bracket

Wide Focus: Does normal fusion damage to a hex, but the damage is shifted two column shifts to the left.

This would be for shipboard fusions only. Fighter fusions would be unchanged.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Don't forget my Fusion Gatling.

Using pods similar to those used on fighters there are two pairs on a rotating rack. You can fire both separately or as one OL shot. The next turn the second pair rotates up and the first pair can be reloaded (normal power for loading).

There is no cool down and no hold cost.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Whoops!

Forgot the fusion gatling.

By Tos Crawford (Tos) on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

Don't forget the Fusion Beam hooked into the Phaser Capacitor system (without adding to the capacitor).

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 05:29 am: Edit

If I recall correctly I put forward the idea that since fusion suck so much it would be possible to have them as the only weapon in the game that can fire overloads at outside of overload range.


I also wouldn't mind a better sucide overload option, say 6 points of power instead of 7 with no destruction of any boxes ( not even the fusion beam itself ).


Even if you could acheive 2.33 points of damage per fusion beam at R15 for 6 power without blowing your F-beam up firing every turn, you've still got a weapon that stinks...just look at what a standard disruptor can do at R15 every turn for 2 points of power.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 11:00 am: Edit

Ah, here it is, from Feb 13, 2003:

We have the following evolution of the Hydran short range weapon:
EY Nova cannon,
X0 Fusion beam,
X2 Nuclear blaster (My proposal)

Nuclear blaster
The fusion beam had been designed to the limits of available metallurgical tolerances. New technology meant new alloys, which allowed an even bigger tritium fusion-based weapon.

The nuclear blaster is a monsterous short ranged weapon, but has decent damage out to range 4, instead of the range 2 of a fusion beam.

It can only be built on Hydran new-construction X2 ships or Pirate Option Mounts.


Normal arming cost is 3 power, and requires a turn to cool down.
Overload arming cost is 6 power, and requires a turn to cool down.
Banzai arming cost is 10 power, and destroys the launcher, plus causes 2 random internals.

Normal	0	1	2	3	4	5-12	13-20	21-30
	21	14	10	7	5	4	3	2
	19	13	9	6	4	3	2	1
	17	12	8	5	4	2	1	1
	15	10	7	5	3	1	1	0
	13	8	5	3	2	1	0	0
	11	7	4	3	2	0	0	0
OL	0	1	2	3	4	5-8
	31	21	15	10	6	6
	28	19	13	9	6	4
	25	18	10	7	4	3
	22	15	10	7	4	2
	19	12	7	4	3	1
	16	10	6	4	3	0
Banzai	0	1	2	3	4	5-8
	42	28	20	14	10	8
	38	26	18	12	8	6
	34	24	16	10	8	4
	30	20	14	10	6	2
	26	16	10	6	4	2
	22	14	8	6	4	0

Replaces a fusion beam on a 1 for 1 basis.

If placed in an Orion option mount (of whatever X-gen-tech)
A standard shot would cause a random internal,
An OL shot would destroy the beam, destroy one heavy weapon in the same option mount, and cause 2 extra random internals.
A Banzai shot would destroy the beam, all heavy weapons in the same option mount group, 15 internals from a single volley, and roll for breakdown on 5-6.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:51 am: Edit

---

Quote:

I also wouldn't mind a better sucide overload option, say 6 points of power instead of 7 with no destruction of any boxes ( not even the fusion beam itself ).

---

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

I can't see an X2 ship using something that blows up when you fire it. That doesn't really say "high technology" to me. I'd expect an X2 fusion to have a "suicide overload", but instead of destroying the beam it just shuts down for d3*20 impulses (and can't be charged during that turn, though it can be destroyed.)

I kind of like the "focused fusion" idea mentioned above, but with I'd suggest that the "wide focus" should just subtract two hexes from the range.

The "fusion gatling" is also interesting, and it might be useful if X2 wants to completely change the Hydrans around (no longer an "overrun" race.) Maybe the Hydrans could become a long-range race, even. Anyway--you're basically making a Plasma-D rack for fusion beams. Which isn't a bad idea--say that it's just a "four-space" fusion rack, it can fire two "fusion charges" every turn, either two singles (same impulse or different) or one double.

And (as tos pointed out sometime last year) simply changing the range brackets around could "fix" it fine.

By Jeff Tonglet (Blackbeard) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit

---

Quote:

I can't see an X2 ship using something that blows up when you fire it. That doesn't really say "high technology" to me

---

---

Quote:

Maybe the Hydrans could become a long-range race, even.

---

By Vincent Matteo Ferrara III (Vincentferrara) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:34 am: Edit

Some interesting proposals you guys have put forth (fusion gatlings, nuclear blasters, etc.), and might be fun additions to the game. I would still prefer to keep the fusion closer to its current form, however. In particular, I don't think we should monkey with the fusion damage table. Here are a couple of more ideas added on to what I suggested earlier, some of them swiped from the suggestions of others:

1. Can arm and fire every turn.

2. Can be held overloaded or standard (2pts of power for overload, and 1 point for standard).

3. If you want to add something out of the ordinary, perhaps allow them an optional firing mode similar to the Jindarian rail guns. They could do, say, 1-6 damage to every size class 6 or 7 object within the firing arc, out to a range of 3 hexes. Perhaps add one to the damage at range 0-1, and subtract one from the damage at range 3.

I think this would be especially important if fighters are going to be reduced or eliminated. Armored drones are already a strain on ship-mounted gatlings (assuming the typical loadout of 2 gatlings per ship is maintained), and X-drones are likely to be even worse. Without fighters hanging around for drone defense, the Hydrans will have a rough time of it.

4. Allow suicide overload for 6 points of power. Firing in this mode does not destroy the fusion, and does no damage to the firing ship. The only penalty is that the fusion must now have a cool down turn. I agree with Michael Powers about not damaging your own ship when firing your weapons. That just wouldn't seem like advanced technology.

5. Allow overloads (and maybe suicide overloads?) to fire out to range 10 (or 15?).

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Michael,

Area effects are very powerful in SFB.

Subtracting two hexes could very easily make the weapon too powerful. Especially in squadron or fleet-strength numbers.

A focused fusion doesn't have to hit when in area-effects mode and therefore doesn't worry about the ECM of any enemy units in the hex it is shooting at. It just rolls for damage.

it gets more powerful the further you can project the ability to do reliable damage.

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 02:43 am: Edit

John Trauger:
>A focused fusion doesn't have to hit when in
>area-effects mode and therefore doesn't worry
>about the ECM of any enemy units in the hex it
>is shooting at.

ECM affects the damage die-roll for the fusions.

er...wait, I'm confused. Are you suggesting that a wide-focus fusion hits EVERY enemy unit in a HEX? I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.

>Subtracting two hexes could very easily make
>the weapon too powerful.

...but shifting the damage table two columns to the left _doesn't_?

Maybe "wide-focus" could be changed to "hits and rolls for damage as normal, but gets 2 points of Natural ECCM when fired in wide-focus mode, in addition to the ship's own EW".

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 01:35 pm: Edit

I like the Gatling Fusion, myself; particularly as a Hydran-only weapon. Nice marriage of the rapid-fire technology of the phaser-G and the close range punch of the fusion. I'd like to see more on this, such as a table and the arming rules.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Well, the table is max R10 for each pod. R8 for overload.

Arming is as per loading one or two fighter fusion pods. Yes, you can load just one if you want but only two at a time. An yes, you can load two, turn them up and load the other two. This effectively gives you four fusion shots tha you can load ahead of time. As I said holding in zero cost.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Michael,

2 columns to the *right*. Sorry if I got my directions reversed.

2 columns to the less-powerful.

But yeah, hits everything in the hex.

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 12:04 am: Edit

---

Quote:

Maybe "wide-focus" could be changed to "hits and rolls for damage as normal, but gets 2 points of Natural ECCM when fired in wide-focus mode, in addition to the ship's own EW".

---

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 08:21 pm: Edit

My 2 quatloo's?

X2 fusions have 2 firing modes.

'Wide' (the normal setting), and 'Focussed'.

Wide setting uses standard tables, has no cool-down, can be OL'd/Suicided as normal.....

But it ignores EW completely.

'cuz, its, you know....WIDE beam.

On 'Focussed', you have cool-down (and you can't use wide-beam on the cool-down turn), no overloads, etc. And it costs double to arm and can't be held.

But you flip the range brackets...ie, it does range 0 damage at range 16-24, etc. It's 'myopic zone' is obviously where it scores 'zero' damage on 1-6....EW column shifts would be reversed using this weapon, of course.

And fighters/PF's can't fire 'focussed'...X2 fusion is too big for them. SC4+ only.

*munches popcorn*

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 08:53 pm: Edit

So for four points of power I get to do 9.833 damage at R24. And al I've gotta do is be willing to spend no power next turn and let the thing cool down.

Meanwhile at that range a hellbore delivers for 3 power it delivers a 10/36 chance of dishing up 4 damage that gets spread 2 to the weakest shield and 1 to each other shield until the remainder is metered out.

Four points of power over two turns would be two standard shots from a disruptor using derfacs and at R24 you'll likely be generating 2 points of damage.

Plus you can wait out the cool down period and fire uner normal load so the penalty of using the focussed mode is pretty easy to over come...just control the speed.

Are you just pulling people's legs?

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 09:08 pm: Edit

ROFLMAO

By John Erwin Hacker (Godzillaking) on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 11:43 pm: Edit

Hi everyone

With the advent of advanced technologies within the Hydran Monarchy you would think that the "obsolete Fusion Beam" would have been retired.I can think of a lot of technologies that could be derived off of the better Hellbore than continue with a weapon system that long out-lived it's usefulness on a starship.But I am a "forward thinker" and Fusion Beams were good "almost great" weapons until the Hellbore arrived but after that they should have all been retired.

By Kosta Michalopoulos (Kosmic) on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Has giving the Hydrans a seeking weapon (call it a fusion torpedo) instead of improved fighters ever been considered for the X2 era? Or would that just spoil the "feel" of the Green Menace?

By Kosta Michalopoulos (Kosmic) on Friday, October 05, 2007 - 01:49 pm: Edit

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I like my suggestion. The Hydrans keep their fusion beams, but gain the option to use them as a seeking weapon as well as the standard direct fire weapon. I'm sure we can work up some rules for this if there is genuine interest out there for it.