Below are some suggestions on how the Alpha Sector Seltorians could stage resurgence. It is an outline-proposal.

LOCATIONS
What is known is the Seltorians contacted the Klingons after entering the galaxy. What is not known is the Seltorian Tribunal had evaluated the risk of being attacked upon entry into the Alpha Sector. Prior to contacting The Klingons a secret rally point was selected. It was in the wastelands of the galactic disc, near a rift in the energy barrier, where the Seltorians first entered the Alpha Sector.

The selection and location of the rally point was a closely guarded secret known only by selected Seltorian command elements and certain squadron and task force commanders. In Y186 ISC destroys Seltorian forces at their planetary base. The Klingons think they have destroyed the rest. In the chaos of the Seltorian’s annihilation the fate of some Seltorian ships is unknown. These escape to the rally point.

In Module R7 (R15.26) the background on the Nest ship indicates some expeditions included a nest ship. A Nest, which was damaged while transiting the rift, is at the rally point. It has a minimal crew and no queen.

The Seltorians, while scouting for a way through the energy barrier, discovered a small collection of stars (globular cluster) near the rift. They set up mining operations in one system with a supply of eggs and a couple of frigates (one configured to carry cargo). A courier route was established from the rally point and Nest ship to the mining operations. The globular cluster location is also a second place to retreat to.

TECHNOLOGY
The Klingons provided the Seltorians engineering assistance in building the DNL, NCA, various carriers, fighters, and PFs. Also the Seltorians, like other races, would engage in espionage and obtain other technology and information. Areas such as: drone designs; advanced computers; information on other races; Klingon ship building practices.

The new technology could be used to develop knowledge of the Seltorian genetic engineering. The queen and most of the Seltorian Tribunal were destroyed. The remaining Seltorian scientists found a way to develop a new queen. Also they figured out how to genetically engineer a greater number of experts with specific skills. The queen isn’t as productive and neither would live much longer than 1.5 years.

SHIPS
A second ACS, Green River of Tears, and her escorts escape (CLE and a DDE). The ACS only had a few of the fighters out of storage, and no Klingons were on board. The Green River was conducting squadron training: escort station keeping and fighter launch and recovery operations. Upon receiving communications of the attack and the hopeless situation the Green River squadron initiated an escape and evasion plan to the secret rally point. Other ships also escaped: NCA, CF, CL, HDD (configured as a repair ship), LTT, DD, and two FFs. The CF, Blue Streaming River, had the scientist and many terabytes of vital data.

The surviving ships would retrograde from the rally point to the base in the globular cluster. At this location they could build a new base (sector?) and a shipyard. With these structures and all the data obtained the Seltorians could build a new fleet with some new designs.

By Stewart W Frazier (Frazikar1) on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Considering the history, the Seltorians may have sent a queen (recently promoted 'princess'?) back to said rally point when it was found that there would be Tholians to hunt, especially when they proved to be a tougher nut to crack.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 12:28 am: Edit

While the Tholians did prove a tough nut to crack the Seltorians didn't expect to take down the Tholians themselves. Their one hope was that with the help of the Klingons they might be able to but the plan was to bring in more forces to complete the mission. But those forces were a long way off, which didn't work well for Klingon's plans.

Unless I get other instructions there is no Seltoian resurgence before Y204. Post Y204 is beyond the context of PDT.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 09:01 am: Edit

Loren,

These surviving Seltorians don't necessarily follow the original mission. The back ground above could be like the alternate history of the Vudar. If they stay in the Alpha sector they will be destroyed. So they developed a small colony. It would take them 5-10 years to build a small fleet.

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Sounds like an Olivette Roche screenplay or miniseries.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 04:39 pm: Edit

I am not a fan of seeing additional technologies, like drones, slosh to the Selts.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 05:03 pm: Edit

Well, I don't see the Seltorians adopting drones for technical reasons not because they aren't available to them. They did work with them on fighters and I see no really reason they couldn't adopt them. The problem would be that by the time they could really put them to use X-Tech makes them MUCH less useful and to remain useful against the Tholians they would need X-drones. Any reserve Seltorians just wouldn't have those resources. A resurgence of Seltorians would be firmely dealt with by the Klingons.

Remember, the Klingons REALLY don't want Seltorians around after destroying the coloney and Hiveship. They have many reasons for this.

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:38 am: Edit

Once the Seltorians leave the alpha sector they will be busy trying to rebuild. Their knowledge base regarding alpha sector weapons and tactics would be from a Klingon perspective. They would need to develop tactics on how to fight against drone and fighters. That doesn’t mean they will put drone racks on their ships. The fissionable material needed to make the warheads for drones and ADDs will likely be in short supply. They would be more likely to develop a defensive version of the particle cannon. Mount these in a DD based ship which becomes a combat escort i.e. anti-fighter/drone ship (DCE).

I don’t know that the Seltorians would continue to build and use fighters. There is the problem of pilots. There is also the problem of no drones for the two types of fighters the Seltorians used, Z-YC and Z-HB. If the Seltorians can/could manipulate the genetics to select for experts who can fly fighters and produce drones then they might continue, on a limited basis, to use fighters. They would continue to use PFs and these would be easier to crew and build.

The background I wrote has the Seltorians retrograding out the top of Galactic disc to the globular cluster. They would return to raid and take needed materials. They might develop a raid support ship, like a half-sized nest ship. The other two ships they would likely develop would be a war cruiser and heavy war cruiser. These war cruisers could be constructed in a shipyard.

The combination of a raid support ship, PFs, and 4-6 war cruiser would make a powerful raiding force. A fast CLS could gather intelligence. While the raiding group is disrupting a sector and drawing a Klingon respond. A separate attack force could attack at a different location. The purpose would be to destroy the infrastructure support the Klingon fleet.

Remember in the proposal Seltorians don't start raiding for 5+ years, which is during the beginning phases of the Andromedan war. The Andromedans would likely penetrate the galactic energy barrier through the bottom part of the galactic disc. So the Klingons (and other races) would have to split their forces to respond to attacks from different directions. An actual fleet scale attack would be later and fit the post Y204 time requirement.

By Tony Downs (Tony) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 05:57 am: Edit

considering that the current history says that 1% of eggs are queens it would make sense that at least 1of the eggs at the rally point would be queen. also with seeng how the klingons developed new ideas would it not be possible for this splinter of seltorians to develop fighters based on non-drone use? small PCs and phasers. maybe a little bulkier. a short range PC and 2 ph-3s maybe? they could be based off of captured/salvaged tholian fighters. this would eliminate the need for drones. more like hydran style of fighter usage? rush them in and follow up with the ships?

By Sean O'Carroll (Terryoc) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:01 am: Edit

The established history says that the Selts in the alpha quadrant got wiped out, so they probably did.

An Olivette Roche fantasy/alternate history version might be that the Seltorians established rogue colonies somewhere. (I mean, if the Orions can do it, why not the Selts?) They gain contact with Orions or smugglers who sell them manufacturing gear in exchange for Selt drones for use as slaves. The Seltorians get control of some small ships, say small freighters or free traders, then start seeding more and more colonies. Some of the colonies are found and destroyed but the Selts start breeding and spreading so fast that they can't be contained...

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:53 pm: Edit

To breed they must have Queens and Queens don't move around so easy and aren't easy to hide. Queen eggs are fairly easy to move so in order for there to be a new breed, you would have to have some story where queen eggs were identified and smuggled to safety.

This is not an impossability but you also have to have a fair amount of technology saved as well. Starships aren't going to escape because the Klingons would have blanketed the area before striking the Selt Hive and they would put satalites around the planet itself to scan for life forms for several years to make sure they got them all.

Oh man, I just had a great SFA scenario come to mind; Seek and Destroy all Seltorians! That would be a great PD campaign too. I'll have to work on that.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Gotta love cockroaches.

No *Seltoran* starship would escape, no.

A smart, if vicious Seltoran would make certain that the Klingons could account for them all, too. right down to a couple of stragglers hiding and trying to escape.

The irony here is extremely rich if you consider the home galaxy.

So when we get out the to Sargasso we find a Seltoran-Carnovon alliance? Dogs and fleas?

By Michael C. Grafton (Mike_Grafton) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Or if queens are about 1% of the eggs, they just tote a COUPLE THOUSAND eggs and skip the tedious id process...

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:28 pm: Edit

The ISC Echelon of Judgment destroyed the Seltorian bases and Hive ship Y186. The Klingons destroy the surviving remnants (Module C3).

The SFU timeline states: "The Klingons discover a secret about the Seltorians and destroy the last of them. A few hundred survivors flee to the Federation or join the Orion pirates, but without a Queen to late new eggs, the population cannot expand. (Rumors of a cache of eggs haunt the galaxy for decades.)"

The Klingons didn't have the planet surrounded. The ISC and the Klingons were fighting each other through Y188. See (SH25.0) in S1. In Y186 neither side is likely to tell the other what they known about the Seltorians and which ships were destroyed.

In module R11 (R15.38) The DDP MOUNTAIN of IRON INGOTS is presumed destroyed by either the ISC or Klingons, but actual fate is unknown.

It is plausible then that some Seltorian ships were not at the planet nor near the Klingon base. One of these ships could have a supply off eggs, including a queen egg, and have escaped to the globular cluster. The escape route would be up in the top 100 parsecs of the galactic disc. The Seltorians ships would be hard to track in wastelands (see page 28 CL#33). The ISCs actions to separate the Feds, Klingons and Tholians could aid in the Seltorians escape. The sensor network and patrols would be disrupted.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:44 pm: Edit

SVC has said that the history is NEVER wrong. But sometimes the history doesn't TELL everything. As I remember it he's still "deciphering the tapes", what we know of the "history" is based on the tapes "deciphered so far".

Remember at one point in time the Usurper was thought of as being dead in Kzin history. Then it turned out he survived his plunge into the Wyn Star Cluster...

regards
Stacy

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:37 am: Edit

Joe is right. I wasn't clear in my post that they were thurough is sweeping up all the Seltorians. The Hive would be those on the planet.

The history is still accurate, I'm not changing history (although I'm adding details).

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 01:46 am: Edit

"The Klingons discover a secret about the Seltorians and destroy the last of them."

I bet they had molecular acid for blood and could breed using non-Selt 'hosts'......;)

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 03:17 am: Edit

No that's not it, but it will be revieled in PDT. It made SVC quote something about Shiva when I detailed it to him those years back and the Klingons (it being real to them) REALLY got uptight.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 04:00 am: Edit

For the Klingons, it was just another 'bughunt'..

By David Slatter (Davidas) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 09:51 am: Edit

Wow! The klingons found the super-secret warp gate to the Seltorian home galaxay, said the super-duper secret "seltorian deactivation" word, broadcast it all over the seltorian home galaxy, and destroyed them all??

Thats impressive. Why aren't the klingons boasting about it more? And why didn't they colonize the selt home galaxy? Did the tholians take over there again?

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:20 am: Edit

IIRC, I read, "What the Klingons found at the Seltorian planet made their blood run cold." I can't remmember the rest word-for-word, but to paraphase the Klingons went to great pains to eradicate the whole of the remaining Seltorians on the planet, and wherever else they found them.

By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 01:32 pm: Edit

I'm telling ya, they found out that the Selt 'reproductive cycle' involved facehuggers.

By George Duffy (Sentinal) on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Ok... say that some Seltorians escaped and maybe even a queen egg was stashed amongst the hatchery; say that they were able to find a planet outside of the galaxy to colonize which had enough resources to sustain a rapid growth race of insects for twenty+ years on it before falling to total devvastation (not likely , but then again this is a different universe). Say that they were able to rebuild their economic infrastructure to the point that they could rebuild a hive fleet or two. What would be their first goal.

The complete destuction of the Tholians in this galaxy. It would take precedence over anything else in their collective racial memories.

There were at least twenty generations of workers that perished before they even reached this galaxy (over 100 years travel time). Even if the original queen and sages may have lived that long; all new ones would have this one goal emmbedded into their genetic memory.

I don't think they would be spending too much energy on how to wipe out Klingons or any other races until they finished with this goal first.

Just a thought...
\

B^)

By Michael Lui (Michaellui) on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 04:30 am: Edit

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Quote:

I'm telling ya, they found out that the Selt 'reproductive cycle' involved facehuggers.

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By Mike Strain (Evilmike) on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 01:24 pm: Edit

That's just sick.......

I hope its true...