Stacy,

I was responding with humor... (the G.O.D. reference)... but you are quite correct, I should have included a , to make the meaning clear!

By Jason E. Schaff (Jschaff297061) on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Yeah, I've also heard the line many times before: I just couldn't resist the temptation to yank people's chains.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 10:18 pm: Edit

We know that the masters have free range control over all/most ofthe alpha octant.

What if the Masters had access to the Omega sector as well?

not sure I like that Idea... but if the Masters are in the center of the Galaxy... I would see no reason why they couldnt capture Omega ships and crews with the same ease that they have shown in taking Alpha Quadrant ships and crews.

(can you imagine the comments between Federation members when confronted with personel for the Federal Republic of Aurora?!?!?)

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 10:29 pm: Edit

I could see an odd scene with an FRA ship crewed by Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, etc, and Klingons, and Lyrans, meeting Federation Crews, Klingon Crews, and Lyran Crews.

I have to imagine it'd be as weird as Kzintis and Lyrans dealing with WYN crews. If not more so.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 10:58 pm: Edit

Nice interaction for a fiction thing in a Captains log some day...

but it might be very confusing at the same time.

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 10:59 pm: Edit

What if the Masters managed to get some old galaxy Tholians? What if they got some Magellanics? Andromedans? WHAT IF THEY GOT SOME OF EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!

BWA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

regards
Stacy

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Well, we know that the Orion Pirates are receiving some one way communications from the prisoners of the Masters... no way at present to figure out who or why they are getting it....

Its also possible that the Masters have managed to "pick up" some Xorks from the other side of the Galaxy... it might be a very controlled opportunity for the Steves to introduce a Xork Raider into a combat situation with the Alpha Race prisoners of the Masters.

With all due respect to Stacy... I just dont see the masters having the ability (or the desire) to capture one of every race inthe universe...

If the only reason the Masters are doing what they are doing is for entertainment... there is no need for a complete set! after all, its easier to limt your playing pieces to to the Major Alpha races... easier to find "spare parts" for the ships they do have than it is to go shopping farther from home (so to speak!)

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Yeah. But you know how supposedly sentient beings have that "Gotta get them all" mania. Just look at all the coin colectors, stamp collectors, card collectors, etc out there.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:51 pm: Edit

You know... thinking about the masters makes one realize that they are just not that advanced on some levels...

for example, capturing starships and forcing the crews to engage in mortal combat is no different than capturing various animals...as had been done in earth history for centuries, to use for the same purpose.

Wasn't it just last year a football player (Michael Vick?!?!) was convicted of doing in essence the same things the masters were doing to various starship crews?

What if there were "PETA" types in the Masters society?

Could that explain why those mysterious messages appeared to the Orions?

Just a thought...

By Stacy Brian Bartley (Bartley) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:56 pm: Edit

The Juggernauts are the Intergalactic PETA. And BOY are they gonna kick Master butt!
regards
Stacy

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 06:50 pm: Edit

Well... if the Masters do have 2 groups with differing goals and intentions, it would make the analysis more interesting and complicated.

Something on a par with the underground resistance during World War 2 in the "real world".

Group 'A' is the slave holding/Gladiator Game sponsors.

Group 'B' is the silent minority opposed to such evil practices.

could prove to be an interesting dynamic.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Something akin to Resistance groups smuggling downed pilots out of enemy held territory? Some story where they try to get a frigate out... could spawn a campaign like the Kang, with a cruiser running the gauntlet, some agent support like sabotage on pursuit ships?

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, February 03, 2009 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Jonathan,

I don't know that they would try for a ship... the underground in Hitler's Germany never managed that IIRC... but they did notify the british as to when the Bismark Sailed... and they did manage to smuggle POWs and concentration camp escapees out of the third reich... so perhaps individuals and shuttle craft might be possible.

Any scenario involving a ship has to explain why the frigate simply wasn't scooped up by what ever device or technique the Masters used to capture it in the first place.

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 07:00 am: Edit

Only concern was that I didn't think a shuttlecraft would have the legs to get out from wherever the Masters and and into a location where they might contact some civilized beings. Maybe if they could do some island hopping of sorts between appropriate habitable planets. Might be more reasonable for fiction but probably wouldn't be a good scenario as just about anything could trash them.

A good scenario might spawn from some background where, considering they have a prison area of some sort full of professional soldiers, they go into revolt. Find some way to disable whatever it is locking the ships there and decide to make a run for it. Then you got the chance that there can be some interesting situations on the escape to be played out.

Just don't know how or what the Masters would do to keep such people contained. On one hand we can presume that it's not like they're kept malnourished, abused, and weak, because they need to be fit enough to man their ships effectively. So there's gotta be something there to keep them in line...

Just not sure what. And without knowing What it becomes hard to imagine what would be possible or not.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:45 pm: Edit

A shuttle craft wouldn't have the legs to get away from where ever the masters are... it would have to be sent the same way the masters gathered their collection of starships and crewss... long distance with some sort of telepathic/teletransportation or some sort of device that gives them the ability to artificially create Vortex on demand... and use it to "scoop up" their intended target (as well as incapacitate the crew in some way without damaging them (the crew) the ship, or leaving a trace of how they did it.

pretty good ability that.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 11:26 pm: Edit

I wonder what the Federation response would be if a disident member of the Masters appeared in the Federation Council "confessing" to the crimes of holding Federation (and other races) prisoners in some sortof Gladitorial games... where the prisoners are abused to the point of exhaustion or suicide...

The galaxy united to address the issue of the Andromedan invasion... look at the history.

Would the Galaxy be similarly motivated to stage an invasion of the Galactic Core to free the hostages?!?

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 04:41 am: Edit

Dunno. Andros were an immediate threat. Already wiped out one empire (LDR?). Almost wiped out the Romulans too as I recall. Didn't show any sign of letting up on the assaults. Harder to motivate someone when the threat is one ship every blue moon might disappear (Figure they accept that as random Space Dragon Run-ins anyway). That show no signs of invading and bring full acts of war down upon you.

But I also like the idea of a rescue operation.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 09:26 am: Edit

Well, a rescue operation is a possiblity...

We start with the Federation... depending on the Year, the ISC might sign up for the Crusade.

The Orions might be encouraged to cooperate in this "Coalition of the Willing" ... the Klingons could consider it a chance for Combat (and less risk of losing the war if they are fighting on the side of the Federation, rather than against the Flat heads for a change).

The Gorns, may infact be very interested... given how cheap the Gorn legislature has traditionally been, they might view the "Masters" as nothing more than common theives... and its time to demand restitution for all of the stolen Gorn ships and crews.

That kind of Reasoning might appeal to the Hydrans as well.

I do not see the Lyrans, Kzinti's or the Romulans being interested in such a operation... but perhaps I'm missing something obvious in the Lyrans, Kzintis and or Romulans likely opinions...

The WYNs (like the Orions) might be willing to help for a price.

Since the LDR is dead by the proposed time frame (post year 205 I'd guess) they are not likely to cooperate (unless there were evidence that the Masters had a collection of LDR ships and crews...and represents that last vestiges of the LDR race?!?

(Heck, that would give the Lyrans an excuse to cooperate with the Masters...in opposition to the Federations attempt to restore theLDR.)

(Double Heck, what if theMasters did infact have a collection of LDR, Carnivon, and Peledine ships and crews? the fear of the Federation reseeding the Carnivons, LDR and Peledine races as minor powers on the Western end of the F&E map would be more than enough justification to force the Lyrans and the Kzinti's to cooperate with the Masters in opposing the Federation Rescue operation... lets call it "Operation Just Cause"...

(Triple Heck, if the Masters had a collection of Avians... the Gorns might consider it their responsibility to restore the Bird folk...)

Handled right, this could be a very compelling story that could be told in a series of scenarios... almost tailor made for SFB, actually.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 11:49 pm: Edit

General Question...

Assume the time period is post operation Unity... and assume that the Federation recieves information about "the Masters"...

Just what kind of rescue operation actually makes sense?

would the Fefderation send a fleet?

a small squadron of X ships?

A single command cruiser under a suitibly experienced and capable officer (where is phil Kosnet when you need him>?

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 05:56 am: Edit

I'd think a small squadron myself. Post Unity people are probably tired of war and don't want to, or can't support a full war against some race they never heard of before.

Probably including a Hospital Ship of some sort, and maybe a Commando ship. Don't necessarily know that the captured crews are going to be in good shape, might need serious medical attention to survive. Commando raid ability should they need to take some ground base, intact, a prison facility perhaps, without damaging the base.

Then probably a Fast/X squadron, depending on what was available to safeguard said ships.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Jonathan,

I guess it might depend on the route taken by the Feds to "The Masters Domaintm"

If it used, the Operation Unity route to get outside the energy barrier of the Galaxy... then you might need 6 months (or more?!?!) with multiple refueling stops (along with Loren Knights fast resupply freighters to keep the force in supply) as it approached the center of the galaxy from "outside".

Then there is the problem of getting "back in" to the galaxy in the general vicinity of "The Masters Domain"tm

Once there, there is the problem of whatever it is that the masters use to control their prisoners possibly being used against the rescue forces.

Sort of a replay of General Patton's attempt to free the Allied prisoners of War in early 1945... he used a regimental combat team, and lots of CAS and artillery, but the Germans managed to evacuate the POW camp before the rescue force could get there.

the only question would be where the Masters would escape to... since they seem to be surrounded on 3 sides by the Zorkians...

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 10:01 pm: Edit

This assumes that the masters need to escape.

The Fed fleet races for 6 months to the Master's domain only to disappear on contact and reappear on the Federation coreward border.

Or deep inside Lyran territory.

"We were chasing down Federation prisoners being held by nigh-omipotent puppet-masters."

A likely story.

Or, most humiliating of all, they're added to a game and never heard from again.

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 10:14 am: Edit

John,

All of which is true.

But there are mitigating factors to consider.

1. If the Masters had the power /desire to take whole fleets of ships and move them randomly... why havent they? (possible limitations on their ability to translocate more than a single ship in a given period of time?)

2. Perhaps the Masters are not the omnipotent beings that they have been portrayed as being? the communications given to the Orions in the Captains Log#3 story seems to indicate that there is a leak of some sort... and illustrates that the masters are not necesarily "in control" of all of their domain.

3. the Masters have not revealed themselves to the galaxy at large. either they like the anonymity or there are real limits on their powers and that means that a large fleet could be a direct threat to them. (Not saying that there is no risk to the ships and crews on the mission... but that there is the potential that"The Masters" have vulnerabilities.

4. Hummmm, lets see. a fleet of 20+ 1st or second generation X ships with 5,000+ star Fleet trained officers and crew added to the 5,000+ rebellious/murderous prison population (composed of a lethal mix of Orions, Romulans, Klingons, Lyran, Kzinti, Human etc. who have endured years of torture and privation.

Can we say "Bastile Day"?!?!?

Perhaps the masters might just elect to surrender/negotiated settlement to avoid "justice" at the hands of their recently released prisoners?!?

By Jonathan Jordan (Arcturusv) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 03:24 pm: Edit

I was thinking "Seltorian Tribunal" rather than "
"Bastile Day", but my head was in the SFB clouds.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Jeff,

1. If the Masters had the power /desire to take whole fleets of ships and move them randomly... why havent they? (possible limitations on their ability to translocate more than a single ship in a given period of time?)

The Masters have staged fleet fights, IIRC. Therefore they can transport multiple ships short distances at least. (for some definitions of "short" -- i.e. from holding/servicing areas to the battlefield of choice, which amounts to no more than tens or hundreds of light-years) They may be more limited at galactic ranges.

There is no continuity I know of that defines this.

Either way a squadron or fleet that shows up uninvited should be easy to deal with, whether "caught and released" used in the games or destroyed.


2. Perhaps the Masters are not the omnipotent beings that they have been portrayed as being? the communications given to the Orions in the Captains Log#3 story seems to indicate that there is a leak of some sort... and illustrates that the masters are not necesarily "in control" of all of their domain.

Ah yes. The "wizard of Oz" option. I no longer have access to CL #3 and can't assess your point.


3. the Masters have not revealed themselves to the galaxy at large. either they like the anonymity or there are real limits on their powers and that means that a large fleet could be a direct threat to them. (Not saying that there is no risk to the ships and crews on the mission... but that there is the potential that"The Masters" have vulnerabilities.

"Vulnerability" is a theory that fits the fact but not the only one.

They might simply have no reason to reveal themselves. If everybody who comes in contact with them gets a one-way ticket to the Area, who's going to tell anyone?

Their vulnerability may not to be the galactic powers as such. Would the Organins let them have their fun if they (the Organinas) knew they (The Masters) existed? how 'bout the Metrons? OTOH the masters could *be* the Excalbians.


4. Hummmm, lets see. a fleet of 20+ 1st or second generation X ships with 5,000+ star Fleet trained officers and crew added to the 5,000+ rebellious/murderous prison population (composed of a lethal mix of Orions, Romulans, Klingons, Lyran, Kzinti, Human etc. who have endured years of torture and privation.

Can we say "Bastile Day"?!?!?

Alternately it could be the byblical Rapture in reverse. All the chosen ones go to hell---as in the core of the nearest star.

large scale teleportation is insanely powerful.