Archive through February 24, 2009
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Threat File -The Masters (Captains Log#3, page3):
Archive through February 24, 2009
John, all I can suggest is that the masters have kept a very low profile for years... either they are happy and feel no need to brag about their powers... or their powers have limits that other omnipotent beings (Organians, Metrones, whatever the "Squire of Gothos" things were etc etc etc) don't seem to have.
If the Masters Domain tm is based on an imperfect technology, then a conventional Space Fleet has the potential to succeed.
Imagine if the Coalition powers (the klinks, Roms and Lyrans) were able to get a force into position and captured the Masters technology... the Federation wouldn't last 6 months... it is insanely powerful technology.
In at least one way, the masters translocation ability is superior to the Andromedans RTN network as there doesnt appear to be any "nodes" in the network.
Such a technology in the hands of any of the SFB universe Major or minor races is potentially "Game Breaking".
The question then becomes how you fight someone who can rearrange your fleet formation at will?
Even if Master technology is "imperfect", if the current Alpha octet technology is unable to exploit the imprefection, it is meaningless.
In practical terms, the masters are invulnerable to conventional assault, even if anybody knew where to start looking, which they don't. If the masters are in the Sargasso, they can be attacked. If the masters are in the Greater Megallanic Cloud, it is remotely possible to strike at them. If they're a billion light years away, forget it.
The masters could be adults from the "Squire of Gothos" race. The Enterprise only dealt with a child until his parents came for him, as you'll recall. A cosmic race that breeds is a scary thing.
naturally, if any single Alpha octet race got master technology, they would be the new rulers of the galaxy. Even if everybody got the technology, borders would cease to have any meaning.
A good approximation of the situation can be found in the archives of the webcomic "Schlock Mercenary" where the onboard scientist invents a way of instantly teleporting anywhere in the galaxy. The technology was so powerful and unbalancing the scientist spammed half the galaxy to give everybody an equal ability to cope with it---and set off a huge number of wars as a result.
As time went on, the tactical situation got a bit more stable with the development of suppression fields that inhibit the teleporting.
We simply don't know enough about the masters... that was part of the reason I started the Threat File.
I doubt that the powers of the Masters are infinite... there are many other Omnipotent beings that seem to be much more powerful.
If the Masters use an "imperfect" technology for their teleportation parlor tricks... it is possible that it is subject to some sort of "recharge" limit... say 1 to 6 times per month (depending on Size Class/distance?!?)
The other side of the coin is the ability of the Masters to target their intended prey... say if the scanner/sensor to "find" the intended target uses up one of those 1 to 6 monthly attempts... you have effectively halved the number of ships tht the masters could move.
Lets say they can't move planets or bases (those pesky positional stabilizer things again!) that means any ship being built, or repaired or docked at a BS, BATS, or Star Base are effedctively "off limits" to the masters.
If ships are traveling at high warp speeds (say anything above warp 3.2) the masters can't "keep up" (which would mean any attacking formation cant be disrupted until it slows down for the final attack).
That leaves ships in orbit of planets, moving at sublight speeds or slower than warp 3.2.
If the trip to the Masters Domaintm requires 6 months... the masters could (intheory) remove 1 or 2 or (possibly) 3 ships from the attack force everytime the ships stop to refuel...(assuming the Masters didnt think to just grab the tankers) so if the attack force started with 30 ships... and it takes 6 months to get to the Masters address... the attack force could have lost anywhere between 6 to 18 ships of the attack force (assuming 6 months and 1 to 3 ships taken per month).
if the Masters were stupid enough to mix the personnel from the attacking force with their prison population.... then word of the rescue will spread... could be an interesting dynamic.
Jeff,
What we do know is that at "short' range the Masters can teleport stuff pretty freely.
30 ships can't function as a fleet. They're three fleets at best.
Then they get close enough for "short" range teleportation and then they're spread around space with an aribtraty number hexes between every ship.
All before we start wondering what *offensive* weapons the Masters can bring to bear.
Bringing resuers into the prisoner stock is just fine if the message they carry is "we came to rescue you and got our clocks cleaned."
To deal with the Masters, one needs THEM to let their guard down. The odds are very good that the galactic powers simply don't have the ability to take the fight to the Masters if they are paying attention.
John, Which is why we were talking about who or what is leaking the messages back to the Orions.
The Masters Security has got to be leaking like a screen door... and the Original fiction story in Captains Log opened the subject of a collective response from the interested parties (the Orions were going to convene some sort of conference with the Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Orions and possibly the Kzintis... and the understated message was that the Masters were a threat that was important enough to supercede the ongoing General War (IIRC, the story took place simetime during the war after the Klingons and Romulans had invaded which placed at year 174+)
Point is, there is an information pipeline from the masters that has released location, names and numbers of both prisoners and ships... and included all of the major and minor races known at the time the story was published, with the exception of the Andromedans and ISC).
You seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the masters are too dangerous to deal with... I suspect that the facts do not support that conclusion.
Well, logically from what I've seen of the Masters (I don't have that CL), we can presume that whoever escaped or got a message out had some help. A guilt ridden collaborator perhaps. The question is if that same person or people are enough to sway the Master's if it hit the fan. If it's just one or two, they might not be able to do much to help. However, if it's a sizable portion, it's possible the way their powers/tech works that the Guilty ones can keep the Master's "In check". Limit their ability to mess around with time and space agianst the rescuers. Which could give them the chance they need.
If the crews themselves got the message out, without master's help. That means they would have spotted some weakness in their technology. Somehow they got a message out without anyone noticing. Someone modified a Romulan/Orion Cloak and staged that ship's "Death" in a game while it dropped off the ability of the master's to track? They found some comm frequency that the Master's couldn't monitor and jam, in which case they could perhaps use that for some edge in the battle?
I dunno, just throwing out ideas.
Where are the Master's located at?
regards
Stacy
I always thought they were in the galatic core. I have no proof, nothing written saying, "They are in the galatic core". But it seems that way.
Jonathan
Well, it's been established by SVC in the SFB canon that the radiation levels and storm levels in the core are too high to allow life. So if we're going to reconcile these two things then perhaps the Masters inhabit a stellar cluster sized Dyson sphere? That would shield them from the radiation and such and provide them with a multi-light year sized playground.
Alternatively perhaps the Masters live in a total energy environment, and perhaps the shanghaied starships and crew are themselves no longer corporal matter (and may be unaware of the fact). They may also not even be the originals but in fact duplicates created from Master scans. That the original starships are not in fact even really missing? Just scanned and duplicated. This may account for the Masters cavalier attitude toward them (they aren't real they're Memorex!).
This presents an interesting conundrum. I'm not sure the ethical perspective of any race other than the Federation and perhaps the ISC would regard the rights of energy duplicates as being worth going to war for (Maybe the Klingons would find an HONOR issue).
It might also explain why the Organians aren't intervening.
Just some food for thought.
regards
Stacy
jeff,
You seem to have arrived at the conclusion that the masters are too dangerous to deal with... I suspect that the facts do not support that conclusion.
Just because information leaked out does not mean that a counterstrike is viable. The masters have shown the ability to manipulate standard tech starships quite literally at a whim. Turning this ability on an attacking fleet has a tendency to remove "attacking" as a functional descriptor of that fleet.
Nor does an information leak necessarily mean that the leak was unplanned or unintended.
I haven't read the CL #3 story in close to 20 years so I'm flying a litle blind, but information could leak out because the masters need someone to be "talent scouts" in order to kidnap contestants for their games. they hired Orions and one of them got suspicious (which is a natural state for most Orions)
John,
IMO, the point of pursuing the threat file
is to discuss all things "Master"... and assuming the Masters are ten feet tall, and invulnerable to anything players could throw at them is a quick way to kill the discussion.
I find it much more fun to entertain the positive aspects as to what can be done in regards to the masters threat.
If you are correct in your assessment of the Masters and their what ever powers (technology? Magic? something else?!?), then why havent they conquered the galaxy?
(perhaps they did, IIRC the time line says at the end"end of recorded history) though I forget what year was listed "year 205? year 225?)
But my point is, the Masters seem to have "dropped off the Radar" as faar as Captains Logs and scenarios are concerned... there hasnt been anything new added since 1991...(copyright date).
so... either the masters thread did infact end (and possibly as a result oif insurrection, prison break, outside interferance, intervention by a greater omnipoten being or by a Fleet attack...) or the masters destroyed the Star Fleet Universe (which, if they had, don't you think one of the Steves or Web Mom would have mentioned it? 
So.
If the masters aren't all powerful... that means some other options are possible... and if someone were to present a "really nifty idea" to the powers that be, we might see some new information on the Masters front.
(just what that nifty new idea might be, I haven't a clue...)
As to your comments about the "information leak"... it is entirely possible that the masters released the information themselves to "gain a wider audience" for their deeds... IIRC that was something mentioned in the Captains log #3 piece... and takes us back to the original discussion.
If the Federation received information that Federation personnel were being held against their will... what would the Federation do about it?
They could always complain to the Organians!
I found a copy of CL #3 at my brother's place over the weekend and read the Masters story there so I'm now up to speed.
IMO, the point of pursuing the threat file
is to discuss all things "Master"... and assuming the Masters are ten feet tall, and invulnerable to anything players could throw at them is a quick way to kill the discussion.
For a discussion to be productive, you have to deal with what the Masters can do. Find plausible limits on master technology.
If you are correct in your assessment of the Masters and their what ever powers (technology? Magic? something else?!?), then why havent they conquered the galaxy?
Why haven't the Jindarans or Tholians?
Motivation.
Conquoring a country or volume of space may or may not be easy. Effectively holding and administrating it is often harder.
If the Masters don't want the bother of conquoring and running the galaxy, they won't conquor it. They will cherry-pick little bits of the galaxy to run in their games.
If the masters aren't all powerful... that means some other options are possible... and if someone were to present a "really nifty idea" to the powers that be, we might see some new information on the Masters front.
I never said they *were* all-powerful. I just said that, on the face of it at least, they're beyond the ability of the galactic powers to deal with.
The masters can:
Remotely shut down a single starship.
Teleport a single starship over interstellar distances
Teleport multiple starships over short distances.
Plausible limits would be
* Long recharge time on the shuitdown ability
* Long recharge time on long-range teleport ability.
You discussed these.
Note that it's implied that the Hammerfield was also shut down before teleporting. a plausible limit is that the masters can transport objects over long distances, but not necessarily a shielded object. If so, they're something of a rarity in Classic Trek where advanced aliens ported through shields every other week. But the the Masters are trying to move the whole shielded object over very long distances, not move a small object onto the sheilded one. The masters might well be able to teleport small objects or people through shields.
Suppose the masters can't shut down X-ship engines?
We know that the masters want to establish a colony. If they had a window of time between when ships were advanced enough to be interesting but not so advanced that they could resist recruitment, The masters would be working to get a hold of interesting ships and crews while they could.
Another question is what the Galactic powers know and when they know it.
Captains of some note, along with their ships, seem to simply...vanish.
The story gives no evidence that anybody in the alpha octet knows about the masters.
Having a slave get a message out is implausible. having a turncoat Master is hackneyed to say the least.
What works is the races putting their heads together after defeating the Andros and noticing similar abduction patterns.
A plausible requirement is that the masters need an agent in Galactic space, if nothing else to listent to battle reports and scout talent.
Suppose some kind of advanced device has to be placed aboard a ship before it can be abducted? That's a string the galactics can pull on to start unravelling the mystery.
Well, finding plausible limits on the masters technology is a place to start.
the Story in Captains Log#3 mentioned that the Gorn was captured 2 years earlier than the time of the story... and that they had abducted 10 ships (listed in the story... included a tholian PC and a WYN Aux Cruiser that had both been destroyed (or rendered into spare parts...).
That means that on average, they have taken less than 1 ship every 2 months... (24 months, 10 ships, do the math).
If that is a practical limit on the Masters "taking ships" ability, then the potential losses of any rescue squadron just dropped by half or 2/3rds from the earlier estimate...
The masters might not have tried to conquer the galaxy not because of lack of motivation... but rather lack of ability.
if it takes them a year or two to remotely deploy a squadron of ships away from their base of operations (again, assumed to be inside the center of the Galaxy, see scenario SG30.0 Combat Rally) it would take them centuries to conquer the Federation (see captains log#28, 180,000 "useful places" inside the Federation.)
Its entirely possible that the Masters are a threat like the venus fly trap is a threat to flies... it captures them 1 at a time... and are not the size or pervasive all encompassing kind of threat that the Andromedans and the ISC are.
Of an even more interesting concern is the idea that the masters require "inside help" to capture starships... though how they managed to infiltrate agents into all the races mentioned would be an interseting story by itself.
It also might explain why they didnt have an Andromedan ship... too advanced a technology... or too dnagerous for the Masters to mess with?
I wonder if there is a posiblity that the Masters are actually the remnants of the "Old Kings"?!? the children of those members who decided to stay instead of flee with the rest of the race...
That means that on average, they have taken less than 1 ship every 2 months... (24 months, 10 ships, do the math).
If that is a practical limit on the Masters "taking ships" ability, then the potential losses of any rescue squadron just dropped by half or 2/3rds from the earlier estimate...
it's only a practical limit if you assume the Masters are omniscient and can identify/find/abduct a candidate at will whenever they want. Someone has to hear about a captain, pinpoint where his ship is, then move to abduct.
All of these things take time. The abduction of each captain is going to require a fair degree of fieldwork in order to have identified the captain then anticipate an appropriate abduction conditions.
Reading into the CL#3 story, Most or all of the ships were alone when depowered and abducted. It doesn't sound like anybody's ship disappeared from spacedock.
Presumably opportunities to abduct are rare. the Masters do seem to wish to avoid publicity, so they would need moments where a candidate ship is alone and out of sensor contact with other ships and bases for an extended period of time. Those circumstances can't be common.
In order to abduct as many as one captain every 2 months, the Masters would need multiple "talent scout" teams discovering and tracking potential candidates.
RE Andros: If a device must be planted on the candidate ship in order to abduct...well...just TRY to infiltrate the Andros, even forgetting their bizarre extra-galactic tech which might be resistant to being abducted.
John,
Taking the points in reverse order:
6. Yes, I think you are exactly right... the very nature of the Andromedans may make them relatively immune to the Masters "snatch thingee".
It also, illustrates a limit on the Masters abilities... which means that there are characteristics that prohibit the masters from taking some specific types/kinds of ships.
I suspect that you might have hit the nail on the head when you suggested that perhaps the Masters can't shut down X ship engines.
5. I wouldnt be surprised that it does turn out that there are various "talent scouts" working on commission throughout the Galaxy... though the story seems to rule out the Orions assisting in that operation... they would have been near ideal in being able to infiltrate spies and operatives in the various fleets... the only races that they would have had difficulty with would be Hydrans and Tholians (for obvious reasons).
The problem with that theory is that both Hydran and Tholian ships were snatched by the Masters... which would seem to count against the "talent scout" theory... unless there is additional information to the contrary... it might be just a case that your suggestion that the masters are able to penetrate ship shields when needed.
4. Which leads us to the number of abduction opportunities.
dunno.
more data needed. but the USS Hood saucer was alone, out of contact and ripe for picking for years at about that same time... and the masters left it alone... either not interested or couldnt find it?!?
I'd guess that there are lots of times ships are not moving at warp speed undertaking various missions... survey of new planets is one such chance... the Off map areas are closer to the center of the galaxy... half a dozen races (or more) engage in survey missions, and yet the Masters don't seem to have picked up any of the survey freighters or survey cruisers... just regular warships, and of those, almost entirely heavy cruisers.
But I don't know what to make of that.
3. Yes. but again, it may just be an opportun ity that the Masters were looking for, and waited until the targets did disengage warp drives.
2. It may be that the Masters have a life time subscription to the United Federation Star Fleet Procedings... or the Federation Enquirer... successful captains get advertized (recruiting posters etc) maybe the masters caught a Olivia Rochelle trivid program interviewing the "starship captain of the month" ...
1. If the masters wanted a game... and started 24 months before the time setting of the story... they might well have wanted to collect up more ships and captains faster than they did.
It is a practical limit to the extent that they had to spend time actually collecting their victims... instead of instantly teleporting any ship/captain they wanted aat any point... they had to "collect" the groups... and that took time.
That seems conclusive to me that there must be some limits involved... maybe they can just hold 8 ships at a time...remember that in the story the Tholian PC and the WYN Aux Cruiser were scrapped for spare parts... maybe 8 is the limit... and at the time of the story thay had the 2 Orion cruisers, the Fed CA, the D7C, the Romulan ship, the Gorn CA, and the 2 felines.
After the Orion CA Heavensent got scrapped... I wonder if another ship "went missing" aboaut that time... IIRC one of the Fed Fast cruisers disappeared about then...
Perhaps the "talent scout" is some kind of ship or monster that's very hard to detect? It tracks a ship, follows it, then when the target's alone... I'm thinking of something like the James Bond flick that had a spaceship kidnapping American and Russian space capsules to trigger world war III - what was the name of that one?
Sean,
It was "YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE".
6. Yes, I think you are exactly right... the very nature of the Andromedans may make them relatively immune to the Masters "snatch thingee".
It's useful to remember that Andro systems aren't the same as galactic ones. Their P-2s aren't really P-2s, but an energy weapon that is approximated by a P-2's energy cost and damage table. The andros function at a right-angle to galactic reality and could simply confound the Masters as much as they do the Galactic powers. The andros also have their own ability to teleport which could make them more or less suceptible to being abducted.
5. I wouldnt be surprised that it does turn out that there are various "talent scouts" working on commission throughout the Galaxy... though the story seems to rule out the Orions assisting in that operation... they would have been near ideal in being able to infiltrate spies and operatives in the various fleets... the only races that they would have had difficulty with would be Hydrans and Tholians (for obvious reasons).
The problem with that theory is that both Hydran and Tholian ships were snatched by the Masters... which would seem to count against the "talent scout" theory... unless there is additional information to the contrary... it might be just a case that your suggestion that the masters are able to penetrate ship shields when needed.
Orions would have to be careful working inTholian space but there's no reason to assume the Tholians are immune. And there's nothing to say that there can't be a hydran Pirate.
The masters would not want to hire talent scouts unless they had no choice. That would expose them too much. They would want to send master-trained scouts that look like they're doing something else.
more data needed. but the USS Hood saucer was alone, out of contact and ripe for picking for years at about that same time... and the masters left it alone... either not interested or couldnt find it?!?
They could have been uninterested but much also depends on how the Masters get their information. If they're dependent on field agents for infromation, they would not know that the Hood's saucer survived until it was discovered and rescued.
Dependence on Agents within the alpha Octet would be a plausible limit on the masters ability.
the Off map areas are closer to the center of the galaxy... half a dozen races (or more) engage in survey missions, and yet the Masters don't seem to have picked up any of the survey freighters or survey cruisers... just regular warships, and of those, almost entirely heavy cruisers.
No they don't seem interested in survey ships. They want capable captains and ships, not has-beens, never-wases or scientists with command rank.
1. If the masters wanted a game... and started 24 months before the time setting of the story... they might well have wanted to collect up more ships and captains faster than they did.
Who says the captains in CL#3 were the first captains abducted?
Just because the Masters might want to collect captains faster doesn't mean that suitable candidates and suitable opportunities come along faster than an average of 1 every two months.
Implied in the fact that the masters abduct only large warships, is that they can reapir but not build standard tech ships. The Masters do not have shipyards.
Well, the story talked about spare parts... and they did manufacture new type IV drones that were useable by the Klingon ship.
Perhaps they have the equivalent of a Battlestation with a Battlestations repair capacity.
If they are limited to controlling 8-10 star ships, a base/repair facility and a on planet colony/breeding program... then even a single 1st or second generation X ship might be enough to tople the Masters "house of cards".
Prior to Gulf War II, Saddam Hussein was assumed to be a very difficult "take down" target... and that atleast portions of the Iraqi population would be fanatical in supporting him and his government... the facts turned out to be very different. (I'm not talking about the aftermath and the socalled insurrection... just the fall of bagdad and the eventual capture of Saddam.
I wonder if "The Masters" might not turn out to be a brittle polygot of individuals instead of a huge society numbering in the millions/billions.
Perhaps they are 20 or 30 "super beings" or engineer/administrator types who have spent years maintaining the machines left by the
"old Kings" and decided to "play god" with some Alpha race ships and crews in their spare time...
You know... this is sounding more and more tailor made for a Kosnett or a Stocker based solution rather than a huge fleet action.
If they are limited to controlling 8-10 star ships, a base/repair facility and a on planet colony/breeding program... then even a single 1st or second generation X ship might be enough to tople the Masters "house of cards".
That depends on what weapons the masters can bring to bear.
The Masters seem intent on keeping their presence a secret. That implies that The Alpha Octet has or will shotly have the abuility to make trouble for them if they were found out.
If the desire for a colony also means the Masters intend to end their abductions in the Alpha octet, they must intend to expand their facilities to include shipyards.
Prior to Gulf War II, Saddam Hussein was assumed to be a very difficult "take down" target... and that atleast portions of the Iraqi population would be fanatical in supporting him and his government... the facts turned out to be very different. (I'm not talking about the aftermath and the socalled insurrection... just the fall of bagdad and the eventual capture of Saddam.
Without going too far into RWM, the degree of threat from Saddam's iraq was fanned by the *press*. I don't believe it was supported by actual intelligence which the press (for obvious reasons) didn't have.
But I understand the point. Suppose they look worse than they are?
Suppose the Masters are a small cadre of beings that lucked into extremely advanced technology without knowing how it worked and with only vague ideas about how to operate it? Given control of a low-rent "forbidden planet" sort of device, they could easily manufacture small items like spare parts, control collars and drones but not necessarily costruct complete ships. But they could work towards that end.
If the Great Machine is either undefended or the Masters don't know how to make the defenses work, they could be in real trouble if they got found out.
Is it possible that the "Masters" live in fear of some one (read 'BULLY' as in from Central Casting tm) coming to their little corner of the center of the Galaxy to take away their toys, prisoners and Great Machinetm...
Perhaps we should be having Jean Sexton and the GURPS PD peole in to consult on this... it could be a "Mega" project for a Captains log where you can have a Fiction story about the "Rescue" of the prisoners, a Masters ship Scenario for SFB and or FC, a F&E scenaraio detailing the fleet assault on the Starsystem/Planets/colonies/base facilities and a GURPS PD scenario detailing the actual freeing of the prisoners.
Might be difficult... but heck isnt that why we ***have*** the Steves and everyone working to improve the great game known as Star Fleet Universe?!?
(only slightly tongue in check humor!)
It would be funny if the masters were racially Xork...
Sounds like we might have the makings of some interesting scenarios here, and perhaps a campaign as well.
Even if they were SVC would change them because he doesn't want us to guess ANYTHING!
regards
Stacy