General tactics requested for a small squadron fight. Our monthly group is running a series (can't call it a campaign) of Fed vs. Lyran fights, usually about 3v3.

Generally, these have been going the Feds' way, and we'd like to even it up. Given equal BPV, what are some suggestions? Next fight will be Y178, so we're adding PFs to the match on the Lyran side.

We also operate under a time limit, so an extended sabre dance with disruptors is not a popular option. Of course, neither is storming right into photon-death range.

By Jim Davies (Mudfoot) on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Hope he has a CV. If not, your ESGs aren't going to be a whole lot of use...though if you can catch him reloading photons, you could get some value out of them.

Banning the sabre dance does play into his hands. Certainly try to bash in a front shield from R9+ before getting any closer, and when he does take The Shot, make sure that it's not on a #1 shield so you can overrun him afterwards.

3v3 gives him rather an advantage, as he can trash one of your ships from R8 but you can't do much more than crash in a shield and do moderate internals in return.

By Larry E. Ramey (Hydrajak) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Richard,

2 ESGs up at R0. Overload the Disruptors. Go to R4 off the diaganol (Your #6 facing his #2)

Shoot.

Turn and leave.

Come back in 2 turns.

You win.

Seriously... there is almost no way to lose this if you don't let him get to R3. (R2 == you dead most likely)

He has Phaser-II, you have Phaser-I. ESG == Hellbore does nothing to you.

By Lee Hanna (Lee) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 06:32 pm: Edit

?? This is about fighting Feds, so there's no P-2s or Hellbores.

Most of our group doesn't like fighters and masses of drones drag out the time more, so a CV is not expected.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 07:02 pm: Edit

One interesting, if slightly cheezy, option the Lyrans could try is using a mauler as one of the three ships selected. The mauler then takes "point" in front of the other two Lyran ships. While a mauler gives up most/all of its standard HW DF, the huge quantity of batteries may present the Fed with a difficult choice:

1. Shoot the mauler at range, having it reinforce away much of the the Fed firepower, leaving them vulnerable to other two Lyran ships.

2. Ignore the mauler, thereby risking that the mauler will get into point-blank range, where it WILL kill a ship.

If you can't take a mauler, and you have time limits, then you have to look to other options to supplement the inherent one-turn firepower gap that most ships experience against the photon. For disruptor-armed ships without seeking weapons, your choices are limited:

1. You've already hit upon one of them. Using PFs can be a cheap way to get a boost in firepower, and are just big enough to absorb (and be destroyed by) the average alpha-strike from a Fed cruiser at ranges 6-8.

2. Carefully consider your standard ship selection. Note that a DW has nearly the firepower of a CW for about 20% less BPV, thereby allowing something else bigger. The awesome Wildcat/Hellcat BC/BCH is a cruiser in name only, with one of the best phaser suites of any any cruiser and a ridiculously good power curve (until you have to recharge those 4 ESGs). They arguably have the best battle tug in the game. The Jagdpanther light cruiser had good phasers, and has multi-mission capability due to NWOs (but it is a bit light on shields).

Pick ships that are maneuverable. In the mid- to late games, after both sides have taken casualties, forcing the Feds, with their C and D turn modes, into a turning battle against your ships with B and C turn modes, can give you a few free impulses of unanswered attack that could shift the balance of power away from his vaunted photons.

Lastly, a word about what I describe as "morale." Recognize that you WILL be hit...hard. Unless you are operating in a very heavy EW environment, in a 3 vs. 3 action, the Fed is going to be able to put enough weapons into something that will render it combat-ineffective, if not outright dead. Plan for this. Don't let it discourage you. Don't say to yourself (and especially not out loud), "Omigawd, he just vaporized a ship...I'm done, he beat me." Just because you've taken the initial casualty DOES NOT MEAN THE BATTLE IS OVER. If you plan for it (and especially with the mauler tactic above), and execute a plan that hopefully involves bringing your remaining weapons to bear at closer ranges, you can give better than you got.

[BTW, that same advice applies to the Klingons too. They just have it a little easier because of even better turn modes, and can mass seeking weapons to assist or divert enemy firepower.]

Good luck.

By Marc Baluda (Marc) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 07:35 pm: Edit

What Richard said.

How many points do you have? Can you take a scout?

Assuming 400 and no scout, consider BC (185, fully refitted w/o mechlinks) and two DW (107+107, fully refitted without mechlinks) for a total of 399.

If scouts are allowed, you have to have one or you lose. Consider BC, DW, DWS for slightly over 400.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Odds are the Feds are winning with close and hose tactics. your house rules favor them.

Try to force the Feds to close with you. Don't be in any hurry to close with them. Don't let social pressure against "sabredancing" force you to be the aggressor.

Pick a moderate-to-slow speed (no higher than 14), and pick at him as you close. If they want to get to the bang-bang faster, let them burn the antimatter.

Consider starcastling rather than moving the turn you expect to get to knife-fighting range.

By John Smith (Johnsmith) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 07:18 am: Edit

Exactly as everyone else is saying, you need to play the long game and pick at them. If pressed into overload range, use your UIMs to blast them in the 5-8 bracket until they use their photons, then close to 4 or less next turn and blast them again. Never use UIM outside of overload range.

I could be wrong, but you seem to be asking for some way to win using Hydran fusion tactics. No such way exists for Lyrans, assuming the Fed players aren't doing something stupid. If you want just want to run at your opponent and roll some dice to declare a winner, you should pick a race that can do it effectively. Like the Hydrans or Feds.

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 01:37 pm: Edit

If it's Hydran strategy you want,

Get the BC or BCH, a decent scout, and plow any leftovers into PF and go for the ESG ram. Can't say it will work, but it might.

The scout loans heavy ECM to the BC/BCH, the PFs lead the attack, drawing fire. BC/BCH slams in behind with 4 ESGs up. do this at or near EOT and you set up a nasty hack/slash maneuver.

It would be spectacular and brief. dunno who would win.

By Richard Sherman (Rich) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 04:06 pm: Edit

John:

Good tactic generally, but - interestingly - not at what the expected BPV level of this fight would be. Lee said this was a 3-on-3 fight, so I'm assuming the BPV is somewhere around the 400 level.

After paying for a Wildcat BC and a decent SC4 scout, that'll leave enough for 3 standard PF. While that number of PF is more than enough to distract Fed fire if they're willing to do that, the PFs themselves don't mount enough firepower to really scare a 3-ship Fed squadron that badly, especially since at least 1 of those PFs might be deterred/hurt by drones (remember, if they're leading the BC, they can't count on a timely ESG for protection). And if the Feds don't use substantially all of their firepower, they're going to have enough to sacrifice a ship and make sure the Lyran BC can't do the same tactic twice. Result: hurt/dead PFs, crippled BC, and untouched SC versus 1 dead Fed and 2 very angry ones.

Yes, the Lyran BC will have the FP advantage on the "slash" turn if executed properly, but against two Fed cruisers (presumably), who now don't really need to make use of overloaded photons anymore to win?

I wonder if - in trying to make this tactic work with a BC at this particular BPV level - the Lyrans are actually better off with either 4 phaser PFs [cheaper, tougher (a bit more shield reinforcement), better drone defense, and almost as scary at range 3 or less], or a full flotilla of INT?

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 05:11 pm: Edit

Richard makes a good point. It would help to know what ship selection options you have. Otherwise, why not a STL and 2x BC? That's three ships, and I like your odds...

By John Trauger (Vorlonagent) on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Personally I like INTs.

Alternately if you want to play with a range 8 smash 'n go, the assault PF. Crap for reinforcement but 6 more disruptors.